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louis91766
Guest
But if the Catholic Church refuses to go along with what the Orthodox Church sees as wrong, then what?
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D
Diakonia
Guest
Catholics are requested by the hierarchs of their own Church to respect the Orthodox stance on these matters - and the stated position of the Orthodox hierarchs in the US is, with few exceptions (chiefly on the part of the Oriental Orthodox Churches) that Catholics may not be communed in their Churches.
Among the Eastern Orthodox, there are some (but, now, few) Antiochian Orthodox parishes who will commune Melkites who are family members of their parishioners (it was once commonly accepted that this could be done). The situation differs in the Middle East, where acceptance of that practice is more widespread and informally acceptable to them.
When you receive the Mystery of the Eucharist in an Eastern Orthodox Church, you may indeed, as the lady said, give scandal to its parishioners. Additionally, you are essentially asking the presbyter to be disobedient to the mandates of his bishop - not sure you really want to be an occasion of sin to a priest - it somehow sounds like a sin to avoid.
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joshrp
Guest
Continue to go to Novus Ordo Mass, and just continue to pray that the Latin Mass starts to spread to more dioceses. I’ve only been to one Latin Mass in my entire life, and I am praying for it to be spread to where I live too. But I have to receive Jesus, and you can only fully be in Communion with Him if you are receiving him in a Catholic Church as far as I know.
C
ciero
Guest
When the priest or bishop offers communion it is NOT asking the priest to sin!
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TrueLight
Guest
How would that happen? Would the person need to ask the priest before the Liturgy?
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Diakonia
Guest
Take it as you like. It is, then, materially participating in his sin of disobeying his hierarch.
I hate being made to sound like Vico, but it is this simple - by the explicit pronouncements of the Orthodox hierarchy, a Catholic should not be seeking to be communed in their temples, unless he/she either:
belongs to one of those Churches in which there is an agreement between the Churches for the provision of pastoral care (Chaldeans, Syriacs, and Armenians generally, Melkites in the Middle East); or,
the Orthodox hierarch of the place in which he/she is worshipping has agreed that Catholics may receive the Mystery of the Eucharist (and there are such places).
You can pridefully declare that you have been communed and you maybe indeed have, but what you are accomplishing here by doing so is to encourage others who will not be communed to try - thereby embarressing themselves and making life difficult for the Orthodox presbyters to whom they’ll make that request.
It’s not all about you - so give it up already.
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ciero
Guest
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RaphaelJ
Guest
The answer would be very simple then. If you are in that area, then find a Catholic church to fulfill your Sunday obligation. Regarding your reverence towards Christ, do remember that it doesn’t matter on what rite it is. I actually like the NO Rite. It made the Mass more accessible to the people and the Rite of Peace or something is beautiful. It’s like its a communion. Well, anyway, if there’s really no Catholic Church there, (whether Western or Eastern) then the Orthodox Church will have to do. At least it has the Real Presence. It’s better than going to a Protestant service. Just remember, look for an Orthodox Church that’s friendly enough to give it to you.
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Diakonia
Guest
Truthfully, I think the lines “will have to do”, “At least”, and what sounds like a grudgingly favorable comparison to Protestant Churches, are offensive, although probably not intentionally.
Our Orthodox brethren, Eastern and Oriental, deserve to be spoken of with a bit less of ‘second best and trying’ attitude.
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RaphaelJ
Guest
Oh, sorry… 
I’ll be more careful with my language next time.
I’ll be more careful with my language next time.
F
Formosus
Guest
I think people should remember that one doesn’t have to receive communion every time one goes to Liturgy. Sometimes a spiritual communion of desire is all one can do. If an Orthodox priest is willing to give one communion, then that is great. But I at least assume they will not distribute it to me as a Greek Catholic.
As for “Sunday Obligation”, its been argued over and over and over on this board. Its in no way clear in Canon Law that the Orthodox Divine Liturgy does not “fulfill” one’s “obligation” and most of the literature beyond canon law(such as Vatican documents that encourage one to go to Orthodox services) would imply that it does fulfill “Sunday obligation”.
As for “Sunday Obligation”, its been argued over and over and over on this board. Its in no way clear in Canon Law that the Orthodox Divine Liturgy does not “fulfill” one’s “obligation” and most of the literature beyond canon law(such as Vatican documents that encourage one to go to Orthodox services) would imply that it does fulfill “Sunday obligation”.
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Fox
Guest
God transcends the laws that men make. It is because of human pride that out Church is split. Let’s get down to the pure worship that God deserves and stop with the petty squabbling. God is happy you are coming to worship Him. Most of the Catholic churches in the US have let secularlism/protestant practises into the Church. For example, holding hands during the Our Father or the priests letting children distract others from the Mass itself. The infection needs to stop or it will lose people to the Orthodoxy. The Church needs to get back to its roots and to it’s mystical side, there is no heart. This needs to change. The Church isn’t suppose to cater to the people by accommodating them, the people is what needs to change. There have so many things that have been lost throughout the years for the sake of “dumbing” down the Mass for people.
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Diakonia
Guest
To be honest, although I didn’t read the gentleman’s post closely enough to see if he was suggesting that he did, it seems to be the general premise on which many Catholics on this and other sites seem to function these days. I spent a third of my life as a very devout, knowledgeable, and observant Latin Catholic and the remaining two-thirds being the same as an Eastern Catholic. In all that time - until the internet came to be, I never encountered ‘liturgical police’ or felt the need to commission myself as such.
The sheer number of folk who devote their days and nights to tracking down ritual misdemeanors and felonies is amazing. It makes one wonder how there can be less persons calling themselves Catholic and attending Church these days, because - to the casual observer - there are tens of thousands of Catholics in those pews, waiting, notepad in hand, to record every abuse perpetrated wthin the sanctuary walls. It does make one wonder if anyone attends to participate in the Mass, or solely to police it.
I find myself increasingly glad that this attitude is significantly less prevalent in our Churches and increasingly sorry for those of my Latin brethren who are constantly advised by their more watchful co-parishioners how devoid their liturgical experience is of the holiness that is inherent in it.
Does anyone really think that holding hands, raising them in the orans posture, or hiding them in one’s pockets makes the Our Father less pleasing to He to Whom it is addressed?
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Fox
Guest
It does when they treat you like a social leper if you don’t. It really bothers me that the Church allows electric guitars/instruments and other things in Mass. It takes away from my experience in Mass, I’m at Church to worship God and I can’t fully do it with all of these distractions. Church isn’t suppose to be some jam session, when is enough…enough? Where is the line?
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Fox
Guest
I don’t see this as a problem in the Orthodox generally or most Catholic Churchs in Europe, now why is that?
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Fox
Guest
That would suit me fine though.
The Catholic Church is God’s Church and will not fail even with low numbers.
The Catholic Church is God’s Church and will not fail even with low numbers.
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Diak
Guest
I’ve asked four bishops, three archbishops, and a former Pro-Nuncio the direct question if one has to attend Mass again if they go to an Orthodox Sunday or feastday Divine Liturgy to become familiar with the Eastern Christian tradtion according to the spirit of Orientale Lumen. Unanimously all answered “no”, with the former Pro-Nuncio almost laughing me out of the room for asking. While it seems there is often an obsession with “law” as regards “obligation” it is often forgotten the ancient and still active convention in the Church, East and West, that one’s local bishop or eparch/exarch is the competent authority to decide such things. I have yet to meet one who will make someone go to Mass twice for attending an Orthodox Divine Liturgy for educational interest and spiritual enrichment.
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ConstantineTG
Guest
Curiously, the CIC is clear that one has to go to a “Mass” of any Catholic Rite. But that is for Latin Catholics. The CCEO only states that Eastern Catholics go to Divine Liturgy or any of the Divine Praises (Vespers and Matins) to fulfill the Sunday Obligation, without mention that it has to be of a Latin Rite. It does say that the norms prescribed by the particular Church should be followed. It means a particular Church can allow attendance in an Orthodox Divine Liturgy without violating laws promulgated by the Vatican.
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