Ok to go to Greek Orthodox

[Vico]

According to Directory For The Application Of Principles and Norms On Ecumenism posted earlier in this thread, Mass and Divine Liturgy are equivalent. But, for eastern Catholic Churches, the obligation is according to their own laws (CCEO and particular).

 

[5Loaves]

The CCEO only states that Eastern Catholics go to Divine Liturgy or any of the Divine Praises (Vespers and Matins) to fulfill the Sunday Obligation, without mention that it has to be of a Latin Rite. It does say that the norms prescribed by the particular Church should be followed. It means a particular Church can allow attendance in an Orthodox Divine Liturgy without violating laws promulgated by the Vatican.

Canon 881 §1. The Christian faithful are bound by the obligation to** participate on Sundays and feast days in the Divine Liturgy, or**, according to the prescriptions or legitimate customs of their own Church sui iuris, in the celebration of the divine praises.

Just as with the CIC there is no “Sunday Obligation” to receive Holy Eucharist in the CCEO. The Divine Liturgy at my parish is identical to the Divine Liturgy at the OCA Russian Orthodox here, with the exception of who is prayed for at the commemoration of the heirarchs. Their clergy are recognized by the Catholic Church as having valid Holy Orders. I see no reason why assisting at such a DL doesn’t fulfill the “Sunday Obligation”. For the Churches which allow divine praises to fulfill the “Sunday Obligation”, not a term we use in the East as we know…, again that has no Eucharist at all anyway.

If my parish, God forbid, shut down I’d likely be more often at DL at the Orthodox, and then go to a Latin Church some other time for the Holy Mysteries of Penance and Eucharist. Lord willing I won’t be presented with this scenario.

 

[ConstantineTG]

According to Directory For The Application Of Principles and Norms On Ecumenism posted earlier in this thread, Mass and Divine Liturgy are equivalent. But, for eastern Catholic Churches, the obligation is according to their own laws (CCEO and particular).

Of course. Mass will always be any Eucharistic Liturgy no matter what its called in another tradition.

 

[ciero]

I’ve asked four bishops, three archbishops, and a former Pro-Nuncio the direct question if one has to attend Mass again if they go to an Orthodox Sunday or feastday Divine Liturgy to become familiar with the Eastern Christian tradtion according to the spirit of Orientale Lumen. Unanimously all answered “no”, with the former Pro-Nuncio almost laughing me out of the room for asking. While it seems there is often an obsession with “law” as regards “obligation” it is often forgotten the ancient and still active convention in the Church, East and West, that one’s local bishop or eparch/exarch is the competent authority to decide such things. I have yet to meet one who will make someone go to Mass twice for attending an Orthodox Divine Liturgy for educational interest and spiritual enrichment.

All these bishops, archbishops and pro nuncios will never tup Vico!

 

[Vico]

All these bishops, archbishops and pro nuncios will never tup Vico!

It is entirely canonical for a bishop to dispense an individual (not a group) from non-constitutive laws, for cases which are not reserved to the Holy See.

CCEO Canon 1537
Laws, insofar as they define that which essentially constitutes juridical institutes or acts, or are laws pertaining to processes or penalties, are not subject to dispensation.

CCEO Canon 1538

1. As often as he judges that a dispensation will contribute to the spiritual good of the Christian faithful who are subject to him according to the norm of the law, the eparchial bishop can dispense from both the common law and the particular laws of his own Church sui iuris in a special case, unless a reservation has been made by the authority which made the laws.
2. If recourse to the authority which has reserved to itself a dispensation is difficult, and at the same time there is a danger of grave harm in delay, any hierarch in a particular case can dispense the Christian faithful who are subject to him according to the norm of the law, provided that is concerns a dispensation which the same authority is used to grant under the same circumstances, with due regard for can. 396.

CCEO Canon 396
Except for the case in which the invalidity of sacred ordination has been declared, loss of the clerical state does not carry with it a dispensation from the obligation of celibacy, which is granted only by the Roman Pontiff.

 

[Dan_Daly]

The Orthodox don’t have the fullness of the truth found in the Catholic Church. They are not simply “Catholics without the Pope”.

Pax and God bless.

 

[ConstantineTG]

The Orthodox don’t have the fullness of the truth found in the Catholic Church. They are not simply “Catholics without the Pope”.

Pax and God bless.

Blessed Pope John Paul II does not agree with you

Since, in fact, we believe that the venerable and ancient tradition of the Eastern Churches is an integral part of the heritage of Christ’s Church, the first need for Catholics is to be familiar with that tradition, so as to be nourished by it and to encourage the process of unity in the best way possible for each.

Our Eastern Catholic brothers and sisters are very conscious of being the living bearers of this tradition, together with our Orthodox brothers and sisters. The members of the Catholic Church of the Latin tradition must also be fully acquainted with this treasure and thus feel, with the Pope, a passionate longing that the full manifestation of the Church’s catholicity be restored to the Church and to the world, expressed not by a single tradition, and still less by one community in opposition to the other; and that we too may be granted a full taste of the divinely revealed and undivided heritage of the universal Church which is preserved and grows in the life of the Churches of the East as in those of the West.

Apostolic Letter, Orientale Lumen

 

[Dan_Daly]

Where did he disagree? I see nothing in the quote you cited saying the Eastern Orthodox have the fullness of truth just as the Catholic Church does?

For example, my understanding is that the Orthodox believe direct abortion is permitted in the case of the mother being raped. The Catholic Church teaches that would be willful murder- a mortal sin. How can a Church that teaches something is permitted that is in reality a mortal sin, have the fullness of the Truth?

They are also without the teaching authority of the Pope.

Pax and God Bless.

 

[Vico]

It is an imperfect union, not fully incorporated.

Catechism of the Catholic Church

837 "Fully incorporated into the society of the Church are those who, possessing the Spirit of Christ, accept all the means of salvation given to the Church together with her entire organization, and who - by the bonds constituted by the profession of faith, the sacraments, ecclesiastical government, and communion - are joined in the visible structure of the Church of Christ, who rules her through the Supreme Pontiff and the bishops. Even though incorporated into the Church, one who does not however persevere in charity is not saved. He remains indeed in the bosom of the Church, but ‘in body’ not ‘in heart.’"321

838 "The Church knows that she is joined in many ways to the baptized who are honored by the name of Christian, but do not profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter."322 Those "who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church."323 With the Orthodox Churches, this communion is so profound "that it lacks little to attain the fullness that would permit a common celebration of the Lord’s Eucharist."324

 

[ConstantineTG]

Where did he disagree? I see nothing in the quote you cited saying the Eastern Orthodox have the fullness of truth just as the Catholic Church does?

For example, my understanding is that the Orthodox believe direct abortion is permitted in the case of the mother being raped. The Catholic Church teaches that would be willful murder- a mortal sin. How can a Church that teaches something is permitted that is in reality a mortal sin, have the fullness of the Truth?

They are also without the teaching authority of the Pope.

Pax and God Bless.

What you have displayed here is a complete lack of understanding of the Orthodox faith.

 

[ciero]

What you have displayed here is a complete lack of understanding of the Orthodox faith.

Amen! But how many RCs do you know who even care to understand the Latin teaching on the Orthodox churches let alone what the Orthodox actually teach!

 

[ConstantineTG]

I just like to add that the Orthodox have saints whom the Catholic Church have acknowledge (such as St. Seraphim of Sarov whom Blessed Pope John Paul II have referred to as a saint). So how can one that is lacking have saints?

 

[Vico]

I just like to add that the Orthodox have saints whom the Catholic Church have acknowledge (such as St. Seraphim of Sarov whom Blessed Pope John Paul II have referred to as a saint). So how can one that is lacking have saints?

Because ecclesial communities and particular Churches that are not fully united with the Church of Christ still have the action of the Holy Spirit in them. Those baptised individuals of non-Catholic churches and comunnities which have not left communion with Rome (schism) are not presumed to know the full faith (invincible ignorance).

Catechism of the Catholic Church

1792 Ignorance of Christ and his Gospel, bad example given by others, enslavement to one’s passions, assertion of a mistaken notion of autonomy of conscience, rejection of the Church’s authority and her teaching, lack of conversion and of charity: these can be at the source of errors of judgment in moral conduct.
1793 If - on the contrary - the ignorance is invincible, or the moral subject is not responsible for his erroneous judgment, the evil committed by the person cannot be imputed to him. It remains no less an evil, a privation, a disorder. One must therefore work to correct the errors of moral conscience.

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20070629_responsa-quaestiones_en.html

ewtn.com/library/Doctrine/subsistit.htm

 

[Diakonia]

For example, my understanding is that the Orthodox believe direct abortion is permitted in the case of the mother being raped.

You will find a broad diversity of opinion on this matter among the Orthodox Churches.

 

[Imogen123]

As Orthodox Christians, Protestants and the first, I have serious problems with the dough, as I have witnessed. I live in St. Louis and attended four different parishes. All parishes have chosen because it was old and traditional architecture and urbanism, so that these parishes are not new suburbs. One was the cathedral, and was very well done, was also well done, but not as thoroughly, and both were wrong. Conversations with Catholics that I had, which are significantly more traditional than most parishes region. I regularly saw the first two but not the second. It was not what I saw something crazy like liturgical dance, lay preaching, and so is the general feeling was very Protestant. The priest faces the people all of the service, the psalm is directed by a layman in the choir, the hymns were modern and people-centered, communion was distributed by the lay ministers of the Eucharist, etc.
Tera Online GoldTera Items
Not what most Catholics call to liturgical abuses, but for the Orthodox who are accustomed to a much more close to the EF of communication that are difficult to overcome. I attended several services at a parish EF beautiful story here, and provided an Eastern Rite parish were not available, it is certainly the direction I go.

 

[Mark_of_Ephesus]

You will find a broad diversity of opinion on this matter among the Orthodox Churches.

Name one synod that has authorized that practice.

 

[Diakonia]

Name one synod that has authorized that practice.

I doubt that there is one. My comment should have been better phrased - you could find a diversity of opinion among Orthodox on this point (rather than ‘among Churches’, which suggests that there would be one or more that have sanctioned it - I know of none).

 

[dcointin]

Where did he disagree? I see nothing in the quote you cited saying the Eastern Orthodox have the fullness of truth just as the Catholic Church does?

For example, my understanding is that the Orthodox believe direct abortion is permitted in the case of the mother being raped. The Catholic Church teaches that would be willful murder- a mortal sin. How can a Church that teaches something is permitted that is in reality a mortal sin, have the fullness of the Truth?

They are also without the teaching authority of the Pope.

Pax and God Bless.

I have never heard that opinion before. Every Orthodox I’ve heard speak on abortion is against it in all circumstances.

 

[louis91766]

I doubt that there is one. My comment should have been better phrased - you could find a diversity of opinion among Orthodox on this point (rather than ‘among Churches’, which suggests that there would be one or more that have sanctioned it - I know of none).

That proves nothing because if you look at the abortion rate among Catholic women in the USA and compare it with the rate overall, you would not find much difference. So the fact that Catholic women feel like they should abort proves nothing with reference to the official teaching of the RCC.

 

[5Loaves]

This is certainly off OP’s topic… anyway…

I have never heard that opinion before. Every Orthodox I’ve heard speak on abortion is against it in all circumstances.

Ditto, as to the clergy. As to the faithful I’ve heard some think there are circumstances where it would be acceptable just as there are Catholic laity who think that as well.

The Orthodox hierarchs have had a very strong presence at the March for Life, DC. I believe His Beatitude, Metropolitan Jonah advised all his bishops to take part. I know St. Vlad’s had a sizable contingent there. I don’t know of any Orthodox hierarchs present at the the West Coast Walk for Life but definitely Orthodox clergy and faithful had a sizable contingent at the Walk for Life. I spent some of the Walk with them, and some with other Eastern Catholics.