Okay I'm a Protestant... but...

[Jozefo]

As welcoming as your statement sounds to this newcomer , you should be aware that those to whom we refer to as “Protestants” today are protesting nothing. As you heard in the OP this person is unfamiliar with the Catholic faith and therefore has nothing to protest against. The title “Protestant” can only properly be applied to those who knew the faith and rejected, or protested against it. Those who have been raised in a non-Catholic faith tradition and are ignorant of the Catholic faith are simply non-Catholic Christians. No, they do not have the fullness of truth present in the Catholic Church but they worship Jesus Christ with what they do have. In any event, they should be treated with respect and dignity as brothers and sisters in Christ.

I like to dissect words, and ‘protestant’ is one who favors testing or trying something. So a Protestant in a Christian context is someone who favors testing the Faith, which I think is a good idea. I posed the question, hoping to spark a thought process.

 

[Ridgerunner]

There are lots of things a Protestant wouldn’t likely know about the Catholic Church. There are lots of differences between Catholicism and the various protestant denominations, and some of the variances are greater than others.

I am not a theologian, and have no pretense to be one. Someone will surely dispute what I am going to say next.

In my mind, there is one primary difference between Protestantism and Catholicism, and that is that Catholics take two things in the Bible literally while Protestants take them figuratively.

Those two things are:

1. Jesus’ charging His apostles with authority to bind and loose. Catholics take that literally. Protestants take it figuratively. That difference is a very big deal, because Catholicism holds that the Church, the successors of the apostles, have real authority to teach in matters of faith and morals, and that those teachings are binding. Protestants, by and large, hold that only the written Bible constitutes any authority and that individuals may interpret it themselves, one being just as “right” as another. That’s why the Catholic Church refers to itself as “Catholic” (universal). Its teachings apply to all and are authoritative as to all.
2. Jesus’ saying the Eucharist is His body and His blood. Catholics take that literally. Protestants take it figuratively.

But it’s hard to really characterize Protestantism. When one says “I’m Catholic”, the hearer (if he knows what the Church teaches and unless the speaker is a dissident) knows exactly what the speaker believes; whether the speaker is old, young, American, African or whatever. If one says “I’m Protestant”, it means “I hold some things in common with the 2000 year old teachings of the Catholic Church, but not all. I protest against some of them. To know more about what I believe or don’t believe, you must inquire.”

I second the recommendations of some posters to read the Catechism of the Catholic Church. I have sometimes recommended that to Protestants, loaning it to them and asking them to then tell me what they disagree with. There is actually very little with which most Protestants disagree. And yet, most protestant groups have very little in the way of “established doctrine”. They believe many more things than their churches actually teach, and most of those things are consistent with Catholic teaching. That’s even true of many Protestant ministers.

Why is that?

It’s my belief that many Protestants absorb a lot of Catholic thought from their backgrounding in western civilization which, itself, is largely based on millenia of Catholic teaching. Protestants believe many different things, but the Catholic Church is actually their “pole star”, like a pole star at sea. Sailors might not head directly to the pole star, but they still steer by it.

That analogy is not original with me. My son wrote it for a college composition in which he demonstrated many things most Protestants believe but which they don’t actually have in their doctrinal statements, but get from the “Catholic background of the culture”. His professor was also a Baptist minister. The professor gave him an “A+” and told my son privately that it gave him a lot to think about.

Sometimes Protestant ministers want to delve deep into the early writings of the early Christians. When they do, they are reading Catholic sources, not Baptist, Lutheran, Anglican or Jehovah’s Witness sources. If they find particular expressions compelling, they are in effect adopting teachings of the Catholic Church.

None of the above is intended to be insulting to Protestantism. Many of its adherents are people of deep faith and good will. But the truth is the truth, and one might as well tell it.

 

[R_C]

I believe that Catholics and Protestants worship and serve the same God and believe in the same Savior, Jesus Christ. I believe we simply have different traditions; though I know I am over-simplifying things a bit. Catholicism is something I have never studied so a lot of things I read are a bit confusing to me. That said, I just wanted to make it clear that in my own personal private view; all who believe Jesus is the Son of God, was born of the Virgin Mary, gave his life on a cross for the sins of the world, and rose on the third day; having defeated death and the grave are brothers and sisters in Christ.

We believe also as part of the Holy Catholic and Apostolic Faith that all who have been validly baptized are honored with the title of Christians, are brothers in Christ.

However, we don’t just have different ways for the same worship (different traditions): we have different doctrines, different versions of Sacred Scripture, and different interpretations of Sacred Scripture.

Welcome to the forums and thank you for your kind approach There is a lot of anti-Catholic prejudice out there and it makes dialogue within Christian brothers very difficult.

 

[Celtic_Maiden]

Welcome to the Catholic Forum you will learn a lot, I am a Convert from the Jewish Religion and all I say I am so happy in the Catholic Church, I think this sort of happiness should be made illegal.

I would recommend that you read the Church Fathers, as there is many just read a few of them.

Catholicism is Christianity at its fullest expression.
Catholicism is pre denominational , We are the Originals.

Having the Bible but rejecting the religion that produced it , is
like taking the writings of the Dalai Lama and following his writings
but rejecting him and the Tibetan Buddhism, sounds silly doesn’t it
why do it. If the writings are a reflection of the religion but you reject
the religion from which they came, you are left only with a reflection.

 

[Jozefo]

There are lots of things a Protestant wouldn’t likely know about the Catholic Church. There are lots of differences between Catholicism and the various protestant denominations, and some of the variances are greater than others.

I am not a theologian, and have no pretense to be one. Someone will surely dispute what I am going to say next.

In my mind, there is one primary difference between Protestantism and Catholicism, and that is that Catholics take two things in the Bible literally while Protestants take them figuratively.

Those two things are:

1. Jesus’ charging His apostles with authority to bind and loose. Catholics take that literally. Protestants take it figuratively. That difference is a very big deal, because Catholicism holds that the Church, the successors of the apostles, have real authority to teach in matters of faith and morals, and that those teachings are binding. Protestants, by and large, hold that only the written Bible constitutes any authority and that individuals may interpret it themselves, one being just as “right” as another. That’s why the Catholic Church refers to itself as “Catholic” (universal). Its teachings apply to all and are authoritative as to all.
2. Jesus’ saying the Eucharist is His body and His blood. Catholics take that literally. Protestants take it figuratively.

But it’s hard to really characterize Protestantism. When one says “I’m Catholic”, the hearer (if he knows what the Church teaches and unless the speaker is a dissident) knows exactly what the speaker believes; whether the speaker is old, young, American, African or whatever. If one says “I’m Protestant”, it means “I hold some things in common with the 2000 year old teachings of the Catholic Church, but not all. I protest against some of them. To know more about what I believe or don’t believe, you must inquire.”

I second the recommendations of some posters to read the Catechism of the Catholic Church. I have sometimes recommended that to Protestants, loaning it to them and asking them to then tell me what they disagree with. There is actually very little with which most Protestants disagree. And yet, most protestant groups have very little in the way of “established doctrine”. They believe many more things than their churches actually teach, and most of those things are consistent with Catholic teaching. That’s even true of many Protestant ministers.

Why is that?

It’s my belief that many Protestants absorb a lot of Catholic thought from their backgrounding in western civilization which, itself, is largely based on millenia of Catholic teaching. Protestants believe many different things, but the Catholic Church is actually their “pole star”, like a pole star at sea. Sailors might not head directly to the pole star, but they still steer by it.

That analogy is not original with me. My son wrote it for a college composition in which he demonstrated many things most Protestants believe but which they don’t actually have in their doctrinal statements, but get from the “Catholic background of the culture”. His professor was also a Baptist minister. The professor gave him an “A+” and told my son privately that it gave him a lot to think about.

Sometimes Protestant ministers want to delve deep into the early writings of the early Christians. When they do, they are reading Catholic sources, not Baptist, Lutheran, Anglican or Jehovah’s Witness sources. If they find particular expressions compelling, they are in effect adopting teachings of the Catholic Church.

None of the above is intended to be insulting to Protestantism. Many of its adherents are people of deep faith and good will. But the truth is the truth, and one might as well tell it.

All very good points. Now I want to be candid, in light of your posting and of my own conversion. I am convinced in the power of the Eucharist, the authority of the Church, and the historical witness that continues to persevere in the world. But I have to say, many mistakes have been made, and are being made by the Church which, were it not for the Protestants, would have destroyed the Church from within. Sorry if that ruffles a few feathers, but that’s how I see it.

 

[SteveVH]

I like to dissect words, and ‘protestant’ is one who favors testing or trying something. So a Protestant in a Christian context is someone who favors testing the Faith, which I think is a good idea. I posed the question, hoping to spark a thought process.

I have never heard the word used in that manner. The “reformers” were once Catholic and broke away from the Church. They protested and rejected many things about the Church. I doubt many so-called Protestants today even know what was being protested.

As to the Reformation itself, yes, it was most definitely caused by the abuses of Catholic clergy. The problem should have been solved within the Church. St. Francis of Assissi and Catherine of Sienna reformed the Church from within. But the Catholic Church certainly had a hand in what happened and has openly admitted as much.

 

[Lochias]

Okay. I’m new here, and I am Protestant. I’ve been reading/skimming through a lot of threads/posts, and it’s obvious to me I’m in a whole new ball park.

However, I wanted to put this out there - what I believe with all my heart. I hope not to offend anyone here.

I believe that Catholics and Protestants worship and serve the same God and believe in the same Savior, Jesus Christ. I believe we simply have different traditions; though I know I am over-simplifying things a bit. Catholicism is something I have never studied so a lot of things I read are a bit confusing to me. That said, I just wanted to make it clear that in my own personal private view; all who believe Jesus is the Son of God, was born of the Virgin Mary, gave his life on a cross for the sins of the world, and rose on the third day; having defeated death and the grave are brothers and sisters in Christ.

I hope that in this forum I might glean some profitable knowledge about the Catholic faith as well as share what I know of my own.

I hope you all will be patient with me as I crawl then hopefully walk at ease through the threads and posts here.

BTW, I have been a minister for 20 years. I hope I am able to be somewhat of an asset as I humbly seek your guidance in my learning more about the Catholic faith.

God bless you all and thank you again for allowing me to post here.

Howdy, neighbor. Welcome to CAF, thanks for your kind words, and I hope that what you find here helps you on your Christian journey. :tiphat:

 

[andrewstx]

I’m a former Protestant myself (and atheist before that), so I’ve got some awareness of where you’re coming from, although my experience is Australian rather than American. We don’t have a Bible Belt like you do. A pity in one way, since I think Americans are more religious overall, whether Protestant or Catholic (or Orthodox presumably). You wouldn’t get an Australian politician in a blue fit putting his hand over his heart and saying at the tail end of a speech, “God bless Australia!”, sincere or otherwise.

If I were to sum up my attitude to the Catholic Church, it would simply be that I think it is “closest to the truth”, in the sense of having the most accurate understanding of Christian theology, sacraments, etc. Obviously we have the same Bible, except we have the additional seven apocryphal books (or deutero-canonical books as Catholics call them, since the term “apocryphal” includes connotations of meaning “questionable” or of “dubious value”), and of course we worship Christ.

However the earliest church didn’t even have the Bible, and as late as Easter 367 AD (from Wikipedia), “…In his Easter letter of 367, Athanasius, Bishop of Alexandria, gave a list of exactly the same books that would become the New Testament–27 book–proto-canon,[25] and he used the phrase “being canonized” (kanonizomena) in regard to them.[26] and it was in fact canonised by the Catholic Church”.

Since the Catholic Church decided which books would be included, we tend to roll our eyes when Protestants indicate we somehow suppressed the Bible. It’s no coincidence the Reformation didn’t happen till the printing press had become well established, since before that time every copy of every Bible had to be written out by hand, and they were extremely expensive, far beyond the reach of the average person.

It would seem for example the Apostles Creed, or an earlier version of it, was a baptismal statement of faith in the early church. It contains the dreaded words “catholic church”, but that simply means “universal church” (unless some better educated person puts me to rights), since at that time there was basically only one church (which is how it should be).

The trouble with getting into a debate between Catholicism and Protestantism is that the field is very wide, and you’d need to pick on specific topics eg. the office of the Pope and his authority and “infallibility” (a misunderstood concept at the best of times and the Papacy is an **office **- not some sort of individual benefice), apostolic authority, church councils, reconciliation and penance, sacraments (7 compared to the usual 2 for Protestants), Marianism, Deutero-Canonical books, Purgatory, canonised Saints and all the rest, rather than trying to cover all the bases in short order.

I’d suggest one starting point for you might be to get hold of a “Catechism of the Catholic Church”, and just read it through from start to finish. Since this is the official statement of faith, and not what might sometimes be inaccurate local understandings in poorly educated or catechised Catholic areas (mind you, there are some poorly catechised Protestant believers in some places as well, apart from the endless divisions), then this would give you a place to begin asking questions.

But read it first. And then ask the questions.

That’s my suggestion anyway.

I kind of think the Anglican Church in Australia is like a total bible belt. Especially the Archdiocese of Sydney. When I was Episcopalian it was a running joke on another venue to call the Archbishop of Sydney "the Baptist Archbishop of Sydney because of his very Evangelical leanings, his support for LAY celebration, and his practice of temporary “altars” which they would wheel in for Holy Communion and wheel out until the next four times a year celebration.

Had I been born and raised in Sydney I would have been Anglican for an even shorter time.

 

[Jozefo]

I have never heard the word used in that manner. The “reformers” were once Catholic and broke away from the Church. They protested and rejected many things about the Church. I doubt many so-called Protestants today even know what was being protested.

As to the Reformation itself, yes, it was most definitely caused by the abuses of Catholic clergy. The problem should have been solved within the Church. St. Francis of Assissi and Catherine of Sienna reformed the Church from within. But the Catholic Church certainly had a hand in what happened and has openly admitted as much.

Oh, I’m sure you probably never have heard it used that way. But as I said, I like to dissect words, breaking them down into their root words. Pro and test brings a little insight to me, and I thought it might to others as well.

 

[SteveVH]

Oh, I’m sure you probably never have heard it used that way. But as I said, I like to dissect words, breaking them down into their root words. Pro and test brings a little insight to me, and I thought it might to others as well.

Now that you have explained it, yes. At first glance it just seemed a little confrontational in light of the eloquent and charitable post from our new member.

 

[Jozefo]

Now that you have explained it, yes. At first glance it just seemed a little confrontational in light of the eloquent and charitable post from our new member.

Hopefully, as people get to know me better, they’ll realize that sometimes I don’t think to consider other people’s sensibilities. I truly do not like confrontation, but I’m a great believer in being firm. And when that is combined with my weird way of thinking - like dissecting words to gain insight - well, I can see how it might be off-putting to some.

 

[Ridgerunner]

But I have to say, many mistakes have been made, and are being made by the Church which, were it not for the Protestants, would have destroyed the Church from within. Sorry if that ruffles a few feathers, but that’s how I see it.

An interesting take, though almost certainly erroneous. Would like to explore it with you, but it’s really not topical.

Suffice it to say that churchmen often make mistakes; sometimes serious mistakes. The Church itself, does not.

 

[Jozefo]

An interesting take, though almost certainly erroneous. Would like to explore it with you, but it’s really not topical.

Suffice it to say that churchmen often make mistakes; sometimes serious mistakes. The Church itself, does not.

Agreed, it’s not topical, but we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

 

[kmcarl56]

Welcome! I, too, am a “protestant” Christian and came upon this site looking for answers to my many questions about the separation of Catholics and Protestants. I have found a few, but still seek simple answers to simple questions.

To clarify many postings with regard to this thread, I would like to express my thoughts as well. I believe many Protestants feel hated by the Catholic Church simply because we do not follow all of their hierarchy and rituals, nor some beliefs (like how God/Jesus intended the Church to be set up, by whom, and for whom).

Protestants came to America to escape the political power that the Church had over its people, thus they were protesting the Power, not the the Bible. Remember that most people in those days did not read in their own language, let alone Latin. Therefore, most people could not simply sit down and read the Bible for themselves. Those who were educated read the Bible, and professed to know what everything meant…every word in the Bible as truly literal or symbolic. When the pilgrims got to America, they erected a statue which professed their firm belief in all of God’s teachings through the Bible about how a country should be run…by the people and for the people, and in strict accordance to the Bible.

I, too, believe that all Christians are God’s children, and that there are limits to salvation by our unrighteous acts and verbal abuses toward others, even those who are supposed to be our brothers and sisters in Christ. I have found it difficult here on this Forum to get any agreement between posters regarding the founding of Protestantism, or what its’ founding fathers intended for the Church. There is much misunderstanding on both sides, including within Catholism itself (i.e. Left, Right, Eastern, Western, Orthodox, etc.)

Please do not be discouraged by some of the things you read about here. Just learn and grow in your faith in our Almighty Father (God) to bring to you the enlightenment you seek.

May God be with you in all you do and say from this day until Eternity!

 

[JRKH]

kmcarl…thanks for chiming in…
While I agree with your thoughts on there being a lot of misunderstandings between Catholics and protestants…I noted something in your post that I think is not quite accurate.

Protestants came to America to escape the political power that the Church had over its people, thus they were protesting the Power, not the the Bible. …
When the pilgrims got to America, they erected a statue which professed their firm belief in all of God’s teachings through the Bible about how a country should be run…by the people and for the people, and in strict accordance to the Bible.

This is actually not true…The Protestants who came to America - especially the Pilgrims of Plymouth Rock fame were not escaping Rome - but rather they were escaping persecution by the Church of England.
Likewise the many Colonists who were loyal members of the Church of England were not coming here to escape Rome…Since Jamestown (the first permanent settlement) was not founded until 50 years after King Henry VIII’s death so the Church of England had already been established.

HERE is a link that demonstrates that in the case of the Pilgrims - they were being persecuted by the Church of England - - - A protestant Church and so they fled to America.

Peace
James

 

[Bob_Crowley]

I kind of think the Anglican Church in Australia is like a total bible belt. Especially the Archdiocese of Sydney. When I was Episcopalian it was a running joke on another venue to call the Archbishop of Sydney "the Baptist Archbishop of Sydney because of his very Evangelical leanings, his support for LAY celebration, and his practice of temporary “altars” which they would wheel in for Holy Communion and wheel out until the next four times a year celebration.

Had I been born and raised in Sydney I would have been Anglican for an even shorter time.

The Archdiocese of Sydney may be like a miniture Bible Belt, although I wasn’t aware of it. I can’t speak from personal experience, as I’ve never lived in Sydney, but much further north around Brisbane, although I went west for a few years to Perth.

We do have our funny little ways however. I think I remember reading that years ago when the Catholic / Protestant divide was more pronounced (it’s still there though, rest assured), there was a Queensland Police station in a Brisbane inner city suburb called Woollongabba (where the famous cricket oval “The Gabba” is located - that’s if you follow cricket - not likely if you’re American. I think you use a round bat or something, and run around a diamond. At least in cricket you can completely miss the ball all day and still be in for hours as a batsman, if the bowler’s bad enough).

Amongst the cops it had the nickname “Vatican CIty”, because only the Catholic cops got posted there. I suppose it was an effort by the authorities to keep religious bickering to a minimum.

 

[Matt_Guitar_Man]

Dear Singpeace,

G’Day Mate I’m an Aussie from QLD too. This is a great site you’ll love it!

 

[Adamski]

Okay. I’m new here, and I am Protestant. I’ve been reading/skimming through a lot of threads/posts, and it’s obvious to me I’m in a whole new ball park.

However, I wanted to put this out there - what I believe with all my heart. I hope not to offend anyone here.

I believe that Catholics and Protestants worship and serve the same God and believe in the same Savior, Jesus Christ. I believe we simply have different traditions; though I know I am over-simplifying things a bit. Catholicism is something I have never studied so a lot of things I read are a bit confusing to me. That said, I just wanted to make it clear that in my own personal private view; all who believe Jesus is the Son of God, was born of the Virgin Mary, gave his life on a cross for the sins of the world, and rose on the third day; having defeated death and the grave are brothers and sisters in Christ.

I hope that in this forum I might glean some profitable knowledge about the Catholic faith as well as share what I know of my own.

I hope you all will be patient with me as I crawl then hopefully walk at ease through the threads and posts here.

BTW, I have been a minister for 20 years. I hope I am able to be somewhat of an asset as I humbly seek your guidance in my learning more about the Catholic faith.

God bless you all and thank you again for allowing me to post here.

What I have noticed is Protestants always say “I believe or I think or my personal opinion”. The difference is Catholics do because Jesus said to its not our personal feelings or interpitation.

 

[Cat]

Okay. I’m new here, and I am Protestant. I’ve been reading/skimming through a lot of threads/posts, and it’s obvious to me I’m in a whole new ball park.

However, I wanted to put this out there - what I believe with all my heart. I hope not to offend anyone here.

I believe that Catholics and Protestants worship and serve the same God and believe in the same Savior, Jesus Christ. I believe we simply have different traditions; though I know I am over-simplifying things a bit. Catholicism is something I have never studied so a lot of things I read are a bit confusing to me. That said, I just wanted to make it clear that in my own personal private view; all who believe Jesus is the Son of God, was born of the Virgin Mary, gave his life on a cross for the sins of the world, and rose on the third day; having defeated death and the grave are brothers and sisters in Christ.

I hope that in this forum I might glean some profitable knowledge about the Catholic faith as well as share what I know of my own.

I hope you all will be patient with me as I crawl then hopefully walk at ease through the threads and posts here.

BTW, I have been a minister for 20 years. I hope I am able to be somewhat of an asset as I humbly seek your guidance in my learning more about the Catholic faith.

God bless you all and thank you again for allowing me to post here.

Hi, SingPeace,

My husband and I were Evangelical Protestant for the first 47 years of our lives. That meant that we were members of several churches, depending on where we lived. Over those 47 years, we were involved in the Assemblies of God, Conference Baptist, Christian church, Southern Baptist, Christian and Missionary Alliance, and finally, the Evangelical Free Church in America. For two years, we were also members of the Reformed Church in America and our daughter graduated from Calvin College.

Which type of Protestant are you?

My husband and I (and also our daughter, the Calvin grad) converted to Catholicism because over the course of several years of study, we became convinced that it is the Church that Jesus Christ Himself established here on this earth.

I agree with you in your assessment of the unity between Protestants and Catholics. We felt the same way you do, that Catholics and Protestants (and the Orthodox) are all brothers and sisters in Christ. We still believe that. In fact, that’s what the Catechism of the Catholic Church teaches.

But here’s the way I look at it. Catholics “live” in the “castle” that Jesus established for us and continues to build today. We have all the fullness of the Gospel available to us, and Jesus Christ is our Head and He has given us visible leaders here on this earth through whom He leads us.

Protestants live in little houses on the palace grounds, and have only portions of the Gospel available to them. They have leaders, but these leaders have no Christ-given authority, and the only authority they have is that which their individual denomination grants them. Protestant Christians are not beholden to their pastors, but are free to walk away without fear of loss of salvation. In Protestantism, Christians are their own “pope” and have to make their own decisions about issues of theology and mission.

We just didn’t see the point of continuing to live in “poverty” in a house on the estate when we could live in the castle itself! We wanted all that Jesus intended for us to have here on this earth!

 

[Porknpie]

Okay. I’m new here, and I am Protestant. I’ve been reading/skimming through a lot of threads/posts, and it’s obvious to me I’m in a whole new ball park.

However, I wanted to put this out there - what I believe with all my heart. I hope not to offend anyone here.

I believe that Catholics and Protestants worship and serve the same God and believe in the same Savior, Jesus Christ. I believe we simply have different traditions; though I know I am over-simplifying things a bit. Catholicism is something I have never studied so a lot of things I read are a bit confusing to me. That said, I just wanted to make it clear that in my own personal private view; all who believe Jesus is the Son of God, was born of the Virgin Mary, gave his life on a cross for the sins of the world, and rose on the third day; having defeated death and the grave are brothers and sisters in Christ.

I hope that in this forum I might glean some profitable knowledge about the Catholic faith as well as share what I know of my own.

I hope you all will be patient with me as I crawl then hopefully walk at ease through the threads and posts here.

BTW, I have been a minister for 20 years. I hope I am able to be somewhat of an asset as I humbly seek your guidance in my learning more about the Catholic faith.

God bless you all and thank you again for allowing me to post here.

SingPeace-

Welcome. Many good suggestions already. I would add to

• bookmark this website for Catholic scripture references and early church father quotes.
• Read many of the catholic.com tracts as you have questions…see the home page under library
• consider purchasing the Catechism audiobook referenced in my signature, especially if you spend time in your car (16 CDs)

Pork