Okay to use birth control?

[Potato1]

a doctor has to know about medico-legal issues, so it is not straying out of my area of expertise - and I did not say anything that was remotely a threat
TY for your unChristian remakrs, I will give them the credence they deserve
PS there’s an ‘s’ in condescending

My My,
I didn’t know that my comments were “unchristian” (is that a word?) Thanks for the spell check, I am sure I will keep you busy. I see from your profile 2 things, 1 you are a doctor in the UK, I was unaware that qualified you to know the legal and medical repricussions of an opinion on these forums in Arkansas. ( the location of the poster you corrected) By the way that is why this site has moderators. Please direct any compaints to them. If you are interested they probably could use other moderators you should contact CAF about this.
2 You are in RCIA. Congrats and welcome and even though my post may grate on you I do mean that. You may think that I am “unchristian” much like I think you are egotistical and pompous. But perhaps we are both wrong and should start over. If this post has errors please forgive them as I am a little busy and perhaps uneducated.

 

[manualman]

It’s rather hard to trust doctors these days merely because they have a sheepskin on the wall. I practice in a regulated, licensed, education-intensive discipline as well and the sad fact is still that the license and degree do NOT guarantee diligence or competency.

VERY few doctors know a thing about NFP. My wife was told by an OB before we got married that NFP was a joke and that she’d be pregnant in no time if she relied on such ‘superstition.’ Ignorance. Obviously, we don’t go there anymore.

I have a GP doctor friend who did an OB rotation is residency. No discussion of NFP whatsoever. For whatever reason, the medical establishment is deliberately uninterested in NFP. And you wonder why we grow distrustful. Frankly, I see two issues:

1. Doctors don’t know their patients and can’t tell the disciplined from the slackers. NFP is NOT for slackers.
2. Ongoing education seminars are largely paid for by drug companies. No drug company makes a penny from NFP, so no seminars. No NFP seminars, no med school education = no knowledge.

The advice given was not to blow off doctors. It was to seek the advice of a doctor knowledgeable in NFP and NaPro technology in particular for a second opinion. That is highly responsible advice.

 

[jack_hawkins]

Potato1, if you were a typical example of a Catholic I would not remain a second more in the RCIA. Sort out your beam.

 

[Potato1]

It’s rather hard to trust doctors these days merely because they have a sheepskin on the wall. I practice in a regulated, licensed, education-intensive discipline as well and the sad fact is still that the license and degree do NOT guarantee diligence or competency.

VERY few doctors know a thing about NFP. My wife was told by an OB before we got married that NFP was a joke and that she’d be pregnant in no time if she relied on such ‘superstition.’ Ignorance. Obviously, we don’t go there anymore.

I have a GP doctor friend who did an OB rotation is residency. No discussion of NFP whatsoever. For whatever reason, the medical establishment is deliberately uninterested in NFP. And you wonder why we grow distrustful. Frankly, I see two issues:

1. Doctors don’t know their patients and can’t tell the disciplined from the slackers. NFP is NOT for slackers.
2. Ongoing education seminars are largely paid for by drug companies. No drug company makes a penny from NFP, so no seminars. No NFP seminars, no med school education = no knowledge.

The advice given was not to blow off doctors. It was to seek the advice of a doctor knowledgeable in NFP and NaPro technology in particular for a second opinion. That is highly responsible advice.

Thank you this is exactly what I wanted to say only I lacked te credibility, wording, and candor!

 

[bunnynessuk]

Just a quick note to the resident doc!

I am a woman I have gynae problems I will not give any doctor in my country (UK) the time of day - I am 20 years old and aside from my gynae issues and a few extra pounds in perfect health. Yet rather than resolving my medical issues or even attempting to diagnose the issue I keep being repeatedly offered the pill or the coil to stop my pain - they do not want to solve my problems.

I refuse to take the pill - there are still issues resolving its safety - an increase in female cancer due to prolonged use, the effect on a womans fertility, not to mention the problems which may go unnoticed due to the masking of pain.

I think that pumping any hormones into your system is dangerous and damaging and I refuse to do this to my body.

I also find your tone quite condescending and also I feel that you are representing your profession in a bad light given your comments to several members of the forum.

 

[Potato1]

Potato1, if you were a typical example of a Catholic I would not remain a second more in the RCIA. Sort out your beam./QUOTE

Now that is Christian. I ask your forgiveness if you are hurt and I will pray for your conversion. Lest I scare you away. Please sir don’t hang your decision in regards to your soul in my hands. Seek what God is saying not me. If you think all Catholics are like me that would be illogical and wrong. For instance I don’t think all doctors are like you.

 

[LilyM]

Potato1, if you were a typical example of a Catholic I would not remain a second more in the RCIA. Sort out your beam.

Jack, I have half a dozen doctors in my immediate family, including two specialists in these sort of reproductive issues. I fully appreciate and respect the training and dedication it takes to study and practice medicine.

At the same time, please respect the Catholic Church which with equally trained and dedicated minds examines 2,000 years worth of learning on BOTH the science AND the moral, ethical and legal issues behind something like birth control. And consults both the finest scientific and theological/philosophical minds before formulating its teachings.

 

[jack_hawkins]

Jack, I have half a dozen doctors in my immediate family, including two specialists in these sort of reproductive issues. I fully appreciate and respect the training and dedication it takes to study and practice medicine.

At the same time, please respect the Catholic Church which with equally trained and dedicated minds examines 2,000 years worth of learning on BOTH the science AND the moral, ethical and legal issues behind something like birth control. And consults both the finest scientific and theological/philosophical minds before formulating its teachings.

I do respect the Catholic Church, LilyM. As you can see above, some posters are doing their best to make me lose that respect.

 

[Potato1]

I do respect the Catholic Church, LilyM. As you can see above, some posters are doing their best to make me lose that respect.

Hey, thats not fair. That is not my best.

Seriously, all I can do is apologize. Lets move on to the original topic.

 

[Potato1]

To the OP.
My wife and I also have the issue with irregular cycles. It is frustrating and difficult but no one said things would be easy. We have one daughter and one on the way wich seems to be the norm when talking to NFP people But we are putting are marriage and our lives in Gods hands not ours. Both of use were also converts to the faith both of us ended up getting theology and science degrees from Catholic Universities. There are many NFP threads here and the key is to find a good couple to “mentor” We have found that our Marriage and indeed our lives are strengthened by NFP and being open to life. This is not to say that the road is easy or not scary. While NFP can be as sucessful as contraception in prevention of pregnancy it realy is not its intended use nor should it be our goal.
Bottom line is the Church in no way and in no situation permits Contraception! But it does permit NFP for spacing in cases of need.

 

[LittleDeb]

She didn’t give medical advice. She stated facts. Birth Control Pills do not treat anything. They trick a woman’s body with hormones into thinking it’s pregnant for 21 days and then the last week, placebo pills are taken that cause a withdrawal bleed. They do NOTHING to regulate a woman’s cycle or cure a disease (the only exception might be endometriousis) and when coming off the Pill can cause even further problems in conceiving and normal cycling. The OP should seek out a medical professional that has some clue about NFP (omsoul.com has links to providers) and how to HELP a woman with such issues, instead of applying the bandaid of BCP. Some other books that might help: Fertility, Cycles and Nutrition by Marilynn Shannon available from ccli.org

Other forms of NFP and contact info:
ccli.org
boma-usa.org
creightonmodel.com

Irregular cycles DO NOT mean you can’t track your fertility.

I’m a convert as well, and it is scary to put your trust in God’s will for deciding your family size. There are other ways to treat the problems you have. I hope that you will seek out other answers to your medical problems besides the pill. “Easy” doesn’t mean “moral”.

God bless,
Jennifer

I second this! Except one thing, Jennifer, don’t worry about the diclaimer on “curing endometreosis.” It doesn’t cure it either.

To the OP–Severe, life-threatening endometriosis runs in my family. I am the only one who charts and follows things that actually help cure the root cause of it. I am also the only one who still has a uterus. Everyone else went the pill path.

Ask any doctor, “What is the cause of endometriosis?” The first answer you will get will have an ‘um’, a major pause, or a stammer.

The closest workable definition has come from nutritionists who have said it is caused by a hormonal imbalance that causes extra lining to the uterus. That lining is then escaping the uterus, usually my means of traveling up the fallopian tubes. It is the endometrial ‘implants’ that cause the pain and infertility.

I highly recommend the Sympto-Thermal method of NFP when charting for endometriosis. The temp changes can help a good D.O. track thyroid problems. (a D.O. is an M.D. with natural medicine tendancies.) Thyroid problems have been the the most likely candidate in being the root cause of endometriosis.

We don’t have any NFP doctors in my area, but I had some good luck with a D.O. who knew about charting. Every other “medical doctor” I went to liked to mask the symptoms. I was told at 22 to have a hysterectomy. I’m now 35, mother of a toddler, and pregnant again. YAY!!

 

[Potato1]

Straight out of B town.

Littledeb and I have the same doctor issues around these parts which is why NFP friends and instructors are so important to the situation especially if yo are coming from a non Catholic background. My parents still look at my wife and me with our heads on backwards.

 

[sing]

what about women who can’t afford or obtain alternate treatment?

 

[jebojora]

Hi

I too am a convert. And even after converting I was not convicted of the birth control issue or of the abortion issue. It took me a couple more years to understand…but, praise be to God, he has revealed to me the truth.

I read Humane Vitae. Wow…beautiful. It helped me realize why the Church teaches what it does on these subjects:

vatican.va/holy_father/paul_vi/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-vi_enc_25071968_humanae-vitae_en.html

Too often we take the easy way out, and don’t realize that the suffering (ie: irregular periods, PMS, abstaining from sex) is a blessing. A time to turn to God, a time when we need only Him and no one else. It may seem that it’s better that the pill is helping your symptoms, but you can’t see the bigger picture of what grace you’ll receive through obediance to God.

Please do as some of the other posters have advised and seek faithful Catholic doctors with an understanding of the Church teaching and NFP.

 

[Potato1]

what about women who can’t afford or obtain alternate treatment?

Clarify please. Are you asking if poor people can do something morally wrong and potentially murdurous just because they are poor? I am unsure of the question.
But I believe the answer is that birth contol is not permitted and that would be the answer to any “even if” you could possibly come up with.

 

[LittleDeb]

what about women who can’t afford or obtain alternate treatment?

You raise a good question here. I don’t have a good answer from the medical side. They are heavily seduced by the drug companies. As I think has been pointed out, there is no monetary gain from NFP and charting for health purposes.

For many years I ended out doing the research myself and just consulting the doctors to make sure what I was doing wasn’t considered medically ‘toxic.’ I was actually laughed at by three of them and told I was, “wasting my time.” I was told by “medical professionals” that I couldn’t have babies and just to get the hysterectomy because it would be cheaper than treating a lost cause.

Seven, count 'em, 7 OB/GYNs later, I am still laughed at for NFP even though our children will be a planned 3 years apart in age. AND it took only one month of trying to conceive to get pregnant.

I suggest: do the research, see the doctors you can afford, and do NOT compromise on Catholic teaching. They cannot force you to do anything, even if they laugh at you.

 

[sing]

Clarify please. Are you asking if poor people can do something morally wrong and potentially murdurous just because they are poor? I am unsure of the question.
But I believe the answer is that birth contol is not permitted and that would be the answer to any “even if” you could possibly come up with.

I’m wondering what your solution is. It’s a curiousity issue.

 

[Ray_Scheel]

I have also repeatedly seen women being given the pill to mask issues who years later finally heard of and were properly treated for their symptoms based on research that is now up to 40 years old - but is still ignored by the majority of OB/GYNs. Something many doctors really need to consider is why they have been trained to react so negativly to non-doctors pointing out just how badly mainstream medicine has been treating female reproductive health issues - can anyone think of another branch of medicine where the treatment for so many of the common ailments has essentially remained unchanged for 30-40 years?

sing: Most NFP docs take insurance, they are practicing standard medicine using research-backed techniques. Pursuing the “alternative” treatment often winds up being cheaper because the source of the problem is more frequently isolated and eliminated than the common practice of simply trying to mask it for a lifetime. Even with insurance, the monthly cost of the pill adds up, not to mention the differnece in personal productivity between having one’s symptoms cured (or substantially reduced) versus simply being masked.

 

[sing]

You raise a good question here. I don’t have a good answer from the medical side. They are heavily seduced by the drug companies. As I think has been pointed out, there is no monetary gain from NFP and charting for health purposes.

For many years I ended out doing the research myself and just consulting the doctors to make sure what I was doing wasn’t considered medically ‘toxic.’ I was actually laughed at by three of them and told I was, “wasting my time.” I was told by “medical professionals” that I couldn’t have babies and just to get the hysterectomy because it would be cheaper than treating a lost cause.

Seven, count 'em, 7 OB/GYNs later, I am still laughed at for NFP even though our children will be a planned 3 years apart in age. AND it took only one month of trying to conceive to get pregnant.

I suggest: do the research, see the doctors you can afford, and do NOT compromise on Catholic teaching. They cannot force you to do anything, even if they laugh at you.

Well, yes, but what are the concrete options. I see a lot of links to some institute or other, but no concrete solutions, other than charting, which isn’t a solution, it’s a way of figuring out possible things that are wrong. Or, exercise, or herbs. I don’t see concrete alternatives.

I have, heard of a possible cause for endometriosis being related to pollution. endometriosisassn.org/environment.html

 

[sing]

I have also repeatedly seen women being given the pill to mask issues who years later finally heard of and were properly treated for their symptoms based on research that is now up to 40 years old - but is still ignored by the majority of OB/GYNs. Something many doctors really need to consider is why they have been trained to react so negativly to non-doctors pointing out just how badly mainstream medicine has been treating female reproductive health issues - can anyone think of another branch of medicine where the treatment for so many of the common ailments has essentially remained unchanged for 30-40 years?

sing: Most NFP docs take insurance, they are practicing standard medicine using research-backed techniques. Pursuing the “alternative” treatment often winds up being cheaper because the source of the problem is more frequently isolated and eliminated than the common practice of simply trying to mask it for a lifetime. Even with insurance, the monthly cost of the pill adds up, not to mention the differnece in personal productivity between having one’s symptoms cured (or substantially reduced) versus simply being masked.

what if you don’t have insurance or transportation?