Okay to use birth control?

[Potato1]

what if you don’t have insurance or transportation?

If you are serious then please private message me and I will personaly pay for the person in the situation you are talking about. If not then please stop splitting moral hairs with implausible immature and misleading statesments and questions.here are horrible inequities in the medical and financial and educational situations of people. and YES that isa sin. But NO that doesnt mean that what Gods plan for life is regulated by misguided moral relativists. If they lack these things then all the more reason that we shouldn’t just sterilize them that my dear is Nazi like. and ultimately the origianal goal of PP for african Ameriicans.

 

[sing]

ok, i just got seriously weirded out, leaving now oh, and everything i said was serious.

God bless you all.

 

[catholicmessage]

Potato1 - This is the line from Humanae Vitae I was referring to:

Lawful Therapeutic Means

1. On the other hand, the Church does not consider at all illicit the use of those therapeutic means necessary to cure bodily diseases, even if a foreseeable impediment to procreation should result there from—provided such impediment is not directly intended for any motive whatsoever.

The question, I guess would be “Does this situation apply?”

Perhaps irregular cycles do not apply, but there are legitimate reasons to use the pill. A friend of mine had a cyst on an ovary, and the doctor prescribed the pill to help prevent it from rupturing.

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CatholicMessage

 

[Ray_Scheel]

what if you don’t have insurance or transportation?

That seems more a problem of how does one get treatment at all. The fact remains that this “alternative” treatment is not appreciably more expensive than the traditional practice, so affording “alternitive” treatment isn’t the issue if one can afford treatment at all. (However, I do sympathize with the frustrations of those in areas of socialized medicine where docs are assigned by lottery and often have a vested interest in squashing attempts for a patient to get more robust treatment)

 

[LittleDeb]

Well, yes, but what are the concrete options. I see a lot of links to some institute or other, but no concrete solutions, other than charting, which isn’t a solution, it’s a way of figuring out possible things that are wrong. Or, exercise, or herbs. I don’t see concrete alternatives.

I have, heard of a possible cause for endometriosis being related to pollution. endometriosisassn.org/environment.html

Yes I have heard of the pollution issue too. But, what it comes down to is why it causes it. Not the pollution itself but what is it doing to our bodies to cause the overgrowth of blood?

Charting will begin to open the doors to concrete solutions. My endometriosis is caused by low thyroid. Charting BBTs (Basal Body Temperatures) showed my doctor that even though I had come up as “normal” on standard thyroid tests, I was still low thyroid. Some of the sources in Marilyn Shannon’s books are great doctors who have done the research themselves. They agree that any BBT below 97 degrees is low thyroid.

 

[astegallrnc]

what are the concrete options. I see a lot of links to some institute or other, but no concrete solutions, other than charting, which isn’t a solution, it’s a way of figuring out possible things that are wrong. Or, exercise, or herbs. I don’t see concrete alternatives.

With NaProTECHNOLGOY, there are medications, CPRT, CERT, surgery, etc. CrMS charting is the first step.

what if you don’t have insurance or transportation?

This is a real issue. The labs, meds, etc. can be expensive.

 

[Potato1]

Potato1 - This is the line from Humanae Vitae I was referring to:

Lawful Therapeutic Means

1. On the other hand, the Church does not consider at all illicit the use of those therapeutic means necessary to cure bodily diseases, even if a foreseeable impediment to procreation should result there from—provided such impediment is not directly intended for any motive whatsoever.

The question, I guess would be “Does this situation apply?”

Perhaps irregular cycles do not apply, but there are legitimate reasons to use the pill. A friend of mine had a cyst on an ovary, and the doctor prescribed the pill to help prevent it from rupturing.

---

CatholicMessage

I am sure irregular cycles do not apply and I have never seen anything that the pill exclusively cures. I could be wrong. But it also needs to address the abortifacient aspect of the pill. It is talking about an impediment to procreation not, as the pill often does abort a pregnancy. I have heard this argument elswhere on these threads but I believe the answer was if you Have to be on the pill (which I am still looking for an example of) then you must abstain from sex. I find it hard to believe that the Church would take so much fire for "no Condoms in Africa if the “medical use of the pill was already in the doctorine.”
BTW stoped by your blog, very nice.

 

[Delphinus85]

believe me if the problem was simply irregularity, that could be handled. It’s the nausea, intense pain that keeps be stuck ion bed for DAYS at a time, inability to eat or even keep food down, and the intense emotional issues from it. I am HORRIFIED of the abortive property of the pill, so I made SURE with my doc that the occasion for that was extremely low, and my fiancee and I are taking every precaution to use NFP to make sure this doesn’t happen as best we can.

I did get my answer though. The church HAS said if used for therapeutic purposes it is not bad. And that was apprently infallible (a few posts up). My doctor adviced me that more than likely it’s a hormonal problem that will go away in a few years. Until then, BC can help alleviate the symtoms so I can live a normal life until then.

 

[astegallrnc]

but I believe the answer was if you Have to be on the pill (which I am still looking for an example of) then you must abstain from sex

Just offering an alernative view…
I believe that a couple is not required to abstain, but this is based on my very humble understanding of the Church’s teachings, the replies of the CAF apologists, & my education in women’s health.

as the pill often does abort a pregnancy

The pill may act as an abortifacient. No one knows if or how often this occurs.

 

[Potato1]

Perhaps irregular cycles do not apply, but there are legitimate reasons to use the pill. A friend of mine had a cyst on an ovary, and the doctor prescribed the pill to help prevent it from rupturing.

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CatholicMessage

Doctors also prescribe the pill on young teen girls for “Acne”
I am uncertain that just because a doctor used it as a treatment that is is the only treatment. Also it could be morally permisable for those that are abstinate and need a medical “service” offered by the pill. Again the Chuch does not pit the value of one life against another. Abortion including forms of the pill that can be abortional in nature.is never allowed even when the health life or emotional state of the woman is at stake.

 

[Potato1]

Just offering an alernative view…
I believe that a couple is not required to abstain, but this is based on my very humble understanding of the Church’s teachings, the replies of the CAF apologists, my education in women’s health.

The pill may act as an abortifacient. No one knows if or how often this occurs.

please show me the examples of CAF apoligists answering this question. I have seen that you dont have to abstain when one partner insists on using BC but in that case the sin is not yours but thiers. Plus you must educate them on why contraception is wrong. So like if I were Catholic but my wife was a protestant denomination that acceped BC then we could still have marital relations as long as I was educating her and I did not use the contraception. It may be splitting hairs but they are important hairs in regards to the qualificatioons of mortal sin specifically ( knowledge of Grave matter.) Your comment on thew pill is laughable. Of course they don’t know how many times this happens but we do know that statistically it does happen. Actually it is how the pill was DESIGNED to work. A failsafe so to speak.

 

[Potato1]

believe me if the problem was simply irregularity, that could be handled. It’s the nausea, intense pain that keeps be stuck ion bed for DAYS at a time, inability to eat or even keep food down, and the intense emotional issues from it. I am HORRIFIED of the abortive property of the pill, so I made SURE with my doc that the occasion for that was extremely low, and my fiancee and I are taking every precaution to use NFP to make sure this doesn’t happen as best we can.

I did get my answer though. The church HAS said if used for therapeutic purposes it is not bad. And that was apprently infallible (a few posts up). My doctor adviced me that more than likely it’s a hormonal problem that will go away in a few years. Until then, BC can help alleviate the symtoms so I can live a normal life until then.

The Church has NOT SAID THIS IN THE CASE YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT. Please please please post this question to the apologists in the ask an apologist section to get an acurate Church teaching on this. Also I may have misunderstood your post but you are on the pill and say you are using NFP with your fiancee? 1st off I hope you mean that you are studdying and taking NFP classes not that you are using it is your sex life before marriage as that is DEFINATELY a sin. 2nt you cannot use NFP with the pill. As you have no cycles. and no symptoms and no temp cycles and no mucus variation and no well you get the picture…So you are either misinformed or I am misreading what you are saying. My wife was on the pill before we were informedn and getting off the pill is also very damaging for NFP practice be prepared to abstain for a very long time or get pregnant.

 

[astegallrnc]

Regarding the pill for medical reasons:
forum.catholic.com/showthread…highlight=pill
forum.catholic.com/showthread…highlight=pill
forum.catholic.com/showthread…highlight=pill

From Fr. Serpa
The use of the pill for medical reasons may cause an UNintended miscarriage. Women often have unintended miscarriages—sometimes without even knowing it. It is only miscarriages that are INTENDED that the Church considers immoral. The Church never allows the pill to be used as an abortifacient. But it does allow the use of the pill for medical reasons with the possiblity of producing an unintended miscarriage—without obliging the couple to abstain from sexual relations during that time.

Your comment on thew pill is laughable. Of course they don’t know how many times this happens but we do know that statistically it does happen. Actually it is how the pill was DESIGNED to work. A failsafe so to speak…

As is your comment. I am well aware of the effects on the endometrium when ovulation is suppressed. Do you know what happens to the endometrium in ovulatory pill cyles? I sincerely would appreciate scientific evidence since this is the argument I encountered when I stated the pill is an abortifacient. We know that statistically it happens. My sources report the pill prevents ovulation over 99% of the time (perfect use). For the sake of this discussion, I will assume it prevents ovulation 90% of the time. How do I know the changes in the endometrium are the reason it is over 99% effective. Maybe it is the changes in the endometrum or maybe not.

I agree the pill is a potential abortifacient and for me that does not minimize the gravity of this mechanism.

 

[Delphinus85]

LOL no, we PLAN to. we are actually both still virgins

 

[Potato1]

Regarding the pill for medical reasons:
forum.catholic.com/showthread…highlight=pill
forum.catholic.com/showthread…highlight=pill
forum.catholic.com/showthread…highlight=pill

From Fr. Serpa
The use of the pill for medical reasons may cause an UNintended miscarriage. Women often have unintended miscarriages—sometimes without even knowing it. It is only miscarriages that are INTENDED that the Church considers immoral. The Church never allows the pill to be used as an abortifacient. But it does allow the use of the pill for medical reasons with the possiblity of producing an unintended miscarriage—without obliging the couple to abstain from sexual relations during that time.

As is your comment. I am well aware of the effects on the endometrium when ovulation is suppressed. Do you know what happens to the endometrium in ovulatory pill cyles? I sincerely would appreciate scientific evidence since this is the argument I encountered when I stated the pill is an abortifacient. We know that statistically it happens. My sources report the pil prevents ovulation over 99% of the time (perfect use). For the sake of this discussion, I will assume it prevents ovulation 90% of the time. How do I know the changes in the endometrium are the reason it is over 99% effective. May it is the changes in the endometrum or maybe not.

I agree the pill is a potential abortifacient and for me that does not minimize the gravity of this mechanism.

WOW
Thanks for the research. It apears as if you are correct and defininately you are commended for your folow through that is teh point of these forums.
There is still someting that sickens me about this but until I know exactly what it is or am more educated I differ to you.

 

[LittleDeb]

believe me if the problem was simply irregularity, that could be handled. It’s the nausea, intense pain that keeps be stuck ion bed for DAYS at a time, inability to eat or even keep food down, and the intense emotional issues from it. I am HORRIFIED of the abortive property of the pill, so I made SURE with my doc that the occasion for that was extremely low, and my fiancee and I are taking every precaution to use NFP to make sure this doesn’t happen as best we can.

I did get my answer though. The church HAS said if used for therapeutic purposes it is not bad. And that was apprently infallible (a few posts up). My doctor adviced me that more than likely it’s a hormonal problem that will go away in a few years. Until then, BC can help alleviate the symtoms so I can live a normal life until then.

Been there done that. Please feel free to PM me if you do want to talk about it.

Yaz is fairly new. It will be important to find out which class it belongs in. If you are seeing a weight loss rather than a weight gain it does concern me about the breakthrough ovulation issue. In this thread, astegallrnc is a good source for sorting out which class each type of hormonal contraception falls in.

I am a little concerned also about your doctor’s seemingly prophetic statement that your hormonal problem will work itself out in a few years. If you are okay sharing, I am curious how he came to this conclusion. (I was told the same thing as a teen and my problem didn’t get better it got worse.) Some of them seem to base it on ending puberty. (early 20’s)

Since Yaz is so new I have concerns that it might just be trading in all of the old problems with brand new uncharted problems. The female body is made to be cyclical in estrogen and progesterone.

 

[Ray_Scheel]

To get my own coments back on the subject, though I would very strenuously suggest that a woman perscribed the pill for “female issues” get a second opinion from a practitioner willing to consider what her chart reveals and has kept up with OB/GYN research, I do agree that those women takign the pill for reasons other than birth control are allowed to do so without abstaing through the well-established principle of double effect. Even in cases of breakthrough ovulation that leads to the inhospitable lining preventing ovulation, the prevention of a live birth was not the primary intent of the patient if taking the pill was the only treatment option offered / available for thier symptoms.

Where this option gets blurry and/or unacceptable would be a case where a woman knows of (and can access) other options to treat her symptoms that would not have the potentially abortafacient properties of the pill and fails to utilize them herself because of the convenience of the pill.

 

[Zelie_Louis]

The lack of charity on this thread is reprehensible.

Since the OP has said she received the answer she is looking for, this thread is now closed. Should the OP need further advice, she is welcome to contact an apologist privately.

Many of you would do well to read the charity expectations here at CAF.