The CAF Spirituality Forum has any number of threads detailing how anyone can use sacramentals against demonic forces in possessed objects, places and people. I am aware that there’s a difference between using sacramentals properly and using them superstitiously, but that doesn’t mean that they don’t have a role in what is known as spiritual warfare.The use of sacramentals by whom?
The CAF Spirituality Forum has any number of threads detailing how anyone can use sacramentals as one component against demonic forces in possessed objects, places and people and without using them superstitiously.The use of sacramentals by whom?
This IS what the archbishop of OK is doing. Praying. Not much else we can do and hope our praying will do some good for all involved. As far as the host, Catholics need to protect it as far as we can and I don’t think anyone will be passing them out to those who don’t believe in hopes it will do them some good.I was thinking about how protective we feel about consecrated hosts and our mere human strengths versus God’s strength. We enjoy His presence and, rightly so, wish to ensure that presence is treated with the reverence it deserves. So, then I was wondering what would happen in the case of a host falling into hostile hands. I suppose there are only a two options. 1). The host remains the Body of Christ or 2) The host ceases to be the Body of Christ. Since we don’t have any way to accomplish the second option, we trust the God will do what God wishes with the host. His ways are unknown to us. So, then, I wondered, would He somehow remove His presence? Well, God can do anything He wants, but I was thinking that, no, He wouldn’t. He cannot be hurt by what His mere creatures do to His presence on earth. We are puny and small. However, what if, by His own ways, the host, which we mourn the loss of, can still change hearts? It’s like bullies in grade school. They harrass and pick on someone and, at the time, it makes them feel bigger. But later? They feel bad, deep down. What effect will it have on the souls of those who would desecrate the host? Will they someday reflect back with regret and shame? If just one person does, is that not worth it to God? His ways are not our ways. We should do all we can, and pray for those who do wrong, but in the end, recognize that God’s will is what will be done and trust Him.
I guess I’m tying to say to protect the host, as much as you can, but don’t let your disgust prevent you from praying for those who mean to desecrate it. A demonstration of what the host means to us Catholics is good. The image of being there, as the woman was at the foot of the cross, is very powerful. But beyond that, pray that God’s will be done and be at peace. Trust Him.
I hope this makes sense. Am I way off here?
Very well put. I honestly don’t understand the Westboro group and why they seem to lack such charity in their hearts–but call themselves Christian. I pray for them to glean understanding of the pain they cause.I think you summed it up when you said , “How perfectly ridiculous of them”…all they are doing is making people see the idiocy of it…especially doing it in the Bible belt!
But, I would be far more concerned about those who give religion a terrible name…such as the Westboro Baptist Church.
Glad I’m not way off. Thanks.This IS what the archbishop of OK is doing. Praying. Not much else we can do and hope our praying will do some good for all involved. As far as the host, Catholics need to protect it as far as we can and I don’t think anyone will be passing them out to those who don’t believe in hopes it will do them some good.
And Catholic teaching is that their power is dependent on the faith of the person using it. Anything else is in the realm of magic charms, which is not to say that you won’t find Catholics who are sure that anyone burying a St Joseph statue upside down will magically sell their house.The CAF Spirituality Forum has any number of threads detailing how anyone can use sacramentals as one component against demonic forces in possessed objects, places and people and without using them superstitiously.
There is a non-violent solution. At adoration this morning it occured to me; why doesn’t someone show up, walk on stage, take the Blessed Sacrament and return it to the nearest church? I’m convinced that this is possible even though I doubt I’d have the courage or faith to pull it off if it was in my area. If it is consecrated it doesn’t belong to them so there would be nothing wrong with returning it to it’s rightful place.If i lived in Oklahoma i would show up to their little ceremony and trash the place.
Was Satan too scared to confront Jesus physically on this Earth?I dont think youre understanding cornbread.
If satan is afraid of holy water and holy prayers, wouldn’t he be more afraid of Jesus Christ? So by brining Jesus to the black mass, wouldn’t that scare away all the invisible evil?
I don’t assume that Satan is present at black masses like God is at catholic masses.When some Catholics advise others to use blessed water, salt and oil against demons, just what are they hoping to accomplish if not for the demons to vacate the person, home, object, etc.? And again, if those things can be used successfully toward that end, then why wouldn’t a consecrated host be infinitely more effective in ridding the civic center and immediate environs of demons?
I took all of that into consideration before I responded. It’s why I wrote that the sacramental was just “one component” in any process in which they could be used non-superstitiously.And Catholic teaching is that their power is dependent on the faith of the person using it. Anything else is in the realm of magic charms, which is not to say that you won’t find Catholics who are sure that anyone burying a St Joseph statue upside down will magically sell their house.
If a Satanist, who is typically an anti-theist who wants to show either that Sacramentals do nothing, or to deliberately show disrespect to the Sacramentals, splashes holy water about, then the water doesn’t magically repel evil all by itself.
Sacramentals specifically do not act independently of the faith and will of the person using them.
I have shown you the old Catholic Encyclopedia article that explains this (I find this typically helps offset any claims that something is a recent change to teaching). Would you also like to see the Catechism on this, or maybe the simplified Catechism? Holy water is not magic: it doesn’t repel anything by itself.
When Jesus commanded him to leave, he left. When Jesus confronted demoniacs, the demons would cry out and plead that Jesus go away and leave them alone. It seems they do have an aversion to things that are holy.Was Satan too scared to confront Jesus physically on this Earth?
Okay, so then you understand that the mere presence of holy water does nothing to frighten away evil. That is all I was trying to make clear, as you were talking about satanists using that sort of thing in perversions of Christian rituals, and then appeared to be suggesting that this would scare away the devil.I took all of that into consideration before I responded. It’s why I wrote that the sacramental was just “one component” in any process in which they could be used non-superstitiously.
I totally agree with you. Some poster here repeatedly calls Black Mass “silly” to water down this evil event. Water down the evil nature of Black Mass and tell people to ignore the evil event is actually helping the evil. Making this evil event looks like nothing to worry about is surely lack of love for the Eucharist.Black masses are not a “silly ritual”, they are hateful and offensive.
Please sign this protest petition:I totally agree with you. Some poster here repeatedly calls Black Mass “silly” to water down this evil event. Water down the evil nature of Black Mass and tell people to ignore the evil event is actually helping the evil. Making this evil event looks like nothing to worry about is surely lack of love for the Eucharist.
To you who think Black Mass is only silly: Would you be so indifferent if someone stomps on, or pees over your father’s or your mother’s or your brother’s relic? Would you say that is “silly”, do not pay attention??? A relic is part of the person’s dead body. The living Eucharist is the most precious body, blood, soul, and divinity of our Lord. The Black Mass insults the most Holy Eucharist. If you don’t want people to pee over your deceased loved one’s dead body, how could you ignore people’s vicious insult on our Beloved Lord’s living Eucharist?
I could not believe some poster repeatedly telling people that the most offensive thing is just “silly”. Calling Black Mass “silly” is not just silly. Stop helping the evil.