Old Catholics, Episcopalians commit to deeper communion

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EvangelCatholic

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episcopaldigitalnetwork.com/ens/2013/10/23/one-church-in-europe/

Article on recent discussions between the Episcopal Church and Old Catholics that suggests full communion can not be far off.

“Imagine the missional witness and possibility of a seamless Anglican-Episcopal-Old Catholic-Lutheran Christian community!” she added. “The strong and deepening relationship between Old Catholics and Episcopalians in Europe is the forerunner, which just might lead other parts of the Body of Christ into greater partnership.” Presiding Bishop Katharine Jefferts Schori
 
The Old Catholics and the Anglican Communion are already in communion with each other.
 
Merrick said:
The Old Catholics and the Anglican Communion are already in communion with each other.
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I was confused by the article referring to **“Episcopalians in Europe”. **Evidently there are some Anglicans not in full communion with Old Catholics. Example: **“The deepening of relationships between Old Catholics and Episcopalians, he said, might encourage other Anglican churches and full communion partners in Europe to work more intentionally towards unity”. **
 
I actually think Old Catholics could be the first step to bringing Anglicans at a sacramental equivalent with the Eastern Orthodox - considered to have valid sacraments and orders.
 
The Orthodox have far higher standards than this. They rejected the reformers and they will reject their offspring.
 
po18guy said:
The Orthodox have far higher standards than this. They rejected the reformers and they will reject their offspring.
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And as they reject Rome, which they consider the mother of protestantisms.
 
VanSensei said:
I actually think Old Catholics could be the first step to bringing Anglicans at a sacramental equivalent with the Eastern Orthodox - considered to have valid sacraments and orders.
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If so, that would have been true since roughly 1932, after the agreement of Bonn, and the beginning of the joint Anglican/OC episcopal consecrations. This is a subject that often arises here, and I often say that it would be interesting if the RCC ever made a statement on the Dutch Touch.

But the Utrecht OCs also now attempt female ordination, so the point is mainly an historical one. While it certainly makes the Episcopalians and the Union a good fit, it tends to negate the idea of the Dutch Touch as relevant to the Anglican orders issue, going forward.

GKC
 
GKC said:
If so, that would have been true since roughly 1932, after the agreement of Bonn, and the beginning of the joint Anglican/OC episcopal consecrations. This is a subject that often arises here, and I often say that it would be interesting if the RCC ever made a statement on the Dutch Touch.

But the Utrecht OCs also now attempt female ordination, so the point is mainly an historical one. While it certainly makes the Episcopalians and the Union a good fit, it tends to negate the idea of the Dutch Touch as relevant to the Anglican orders issue, going forward.

GKC
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The “elephant in the room” that my friend EvangelCatholic seems to ignore.

Jon
 
Novocastrian said:
And as they reject Rome, which they consider the mother of protestantisms.
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Sure. But they have never condemned Catholicism as having no foundation, or of having abandoned the Apostolic Tradition. They will not and cannot form a communion with an ecclesial community which lacks the constitutive elements of a Church.
 
Many Old Catholic Churches in the USA ( many = not all) are essentially a refuge for Gay and lesbian Catholics: 2 out of the 3 Old Catholic Churches in our County are led by former Gay Roman catholic Priests - one of who is a “Bishop” if they have 100 followers among them that would be a lot-

The Polish National Catholic Church is different -they have left the Union they previously had with Old catholics in the USA-this Polish catholic Church has > 20,000 members

In the USA Old Catholics are a fringe Church -with little or no influence -the situation in Europe appears different

Bishop Schori just won’t stop till she wrecks the Church completely:eek:
 
EvangelCatholic said:
episcopaldigitalnetwork.com/ens/2013/10/23/one-church-in-europe/

Article on recent discussions between the Episcopal Church and Old Catholics that suggests full communion can not be far off.
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This ^^ assumes that there actually are Old Catholics, which is somewhat doubtful these day. The Union of Utrecht isn’t so much OC as nOC (neo-Old Catholic). Then there’s the PNCC, which hasn’t changed like Utrecht did; but the PNCC was never very big on calling themselves Old Catholic.
 
cmodrmac said:
Many Old Catholic Churches in the USA ( many = not all) are essentially a refuge for Gay and lesbian Catholics: 2 out of the 3 Old Catholic Churches in our County are led by former Gay Roman catholic Priests - one of who is a “Bishop” if they have 100 followers among them that would be a lot-

The Polish National Catholic Church is different -they have left the Union they previously had with Old catholics in the USA-this Polish catholic Church has > 20,000 members

In the USA Old Catholics are a fringe Church -with little or no influence -the situation in Europe appears different

Bishop Schori just won’t stop till she wrecks the Church completely:eek:
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Those “Old Catholic” churches do not belong to the Union of Utrect, that is the big difference.

If you do a search on Old or Independent Catholic you will discover hundreds of churches in the USA In communion with no one but themselves. Bishops with no followers. About the only things they have in common are elaborate attempts to ‘proove’ their apostolic succesion.
 
Peter_J said:
This ^^ assumes that there actually are **Old Catholics, which is somewhat doubtful these day. **The Union of Utrecht isn’t so much OC as nOC (neo-Old Catholic). Then there’s the PNCC, which hasn’t changed like Utrecht did; but the PNCC was never very big on calling themselves Old Catholic.
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Thanks for the update. And all the more reason for Old Catholics to enter into full communion with Episcopalians…
 
andrewstx said:
Those “Old Catholic” churches do not belong to the Union of Utrect, that is the big difference.

If you do a search on Old or Independent Catholic you will discover hundreds of churches in the USA In communion with no one but themselves. Bishops with no followers. About the only things they have in common are elaborate attempts to ‘proove’ their apostolic succesion.
Click to expand...
Also, as I recall (apologies if I have details wrong), after the split between the PNCC and the Union of Utrecht, the latter discussed whether they should organize an (official) Old Catholic church in the USA, but decided against it because the USA already has the ECUSA.
 
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