Old Testament God

  • Thread starter Thread starter Namesake
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
N

Namesake

Guest
I mentioned to a Jew that I think the God of the Old Testament is a cruel and violent God. That didn’t set well. But I can’t see it any other way. Maybe someone here can help me understand how the OT shows God as a loving merciful God.
 
I just heard Jimmy Akin answer this question in the archived Catholic Answers Live from August 22, 2002. MP3 here. His answer begins at the 40:40 mark.
 
God in the OT constantly gives people chances to turn away from their sins. Look at the book of Jonah for one example. When the people of Nineveh turn from their sins, God decides not to destroy them.

But we see the wrath of the OT God because His people incur it by deliberately ignoring their covenant with Him. He is very merciful- the moment Adam and Eve ate the apple, God could have annihilated them and it would have been totally just, don’t you agree? And he is very loving: time and again His people are saved when they call upon Him. Even when they defy Him, he spares them. After the Fall, after the flood, anytime, he could just start over, and it would be just. It is proof of His love for us that we continue to exist, and that He sent His Son to redeem us.
 
Namesake said:
I mentioned to a Jew that I think the God of the Old Testament is a cruel and violent God. That didn’t set well. But I can’t see it any other way. Maybe someone here can help me understand how the OT shows God as a loving merciful God.
Click to expand...
If one has a problem with God of the OT, they will have a problem with the God of the NT, because he is the same God.

A good glance at how loving and merciful God is in the OT can be found in Jeremiah 31:31-34. I know I quote this alot, but it is a powerful piece of scripture. For all of Israel’s disobedience to Gods Law, God says he will make a New Covenant with them, where he will forgive their wickedness and remember their sins no more. And from the NT writings, we know this Covenant is extended for the whole world, because Jesus Christ is the “Lamb of God” who takes away the sins of the world.

We must remember we turned from God unto ourselves. And when there is sin, Gods Justice must be met.

And how wonderful for the time we are in know, because the penalty for sin has been met, by the crucifixtion of Jesus of Nazerath.
 
Namesake said:
I mentioned to a Jew that I think the God of the Old Testament is a cruel and violent God. That didn’t set well. But I can’t see it any other way. Maybe someone here can help me understand how the OT shows God as a loving merciful God.
Click to expand...
Compared to the surrounding “gods”. the God of Israel certainly was much more merciful, the Jews could tell you that! At any rate, this Catholic is telling you now… 😃
 
Other posters have hit it on the head. He always gave chances for repentance. It seems like it was constant punishment, bet we do not always read all of the stories. For example, we look at the wondering in the desert, but ignore the freedom from Egypt. We see the distruction of Sodem and Gammorah but ignore the fact that there were not ten good people there. We see God telling them to slay every living thing in the area, but we do not know what attempts He made to have a relationship with them.

That said, over the course of the OT, we see the people change in their understanding of God as He slowly backs off from direct intervention. David has an understanding of God that I think that Moses would have found foreign. It builds up, in my opinion, to the Christian understanding of God.
 
Hope%between% this helps with God in the OT.

In the Old Testament, sometimes (1) God commands all inhabitants of a region or town to be wiped out entirely, like Sodom and Gomorrah (Gen. 18:16—19:29). That is the big lesson of Genesis. If God had found even only five righteous in those two cities, then he would not have destroyed them. No region or town that had a hope of repentance is ever wiped out. [1] But when it is, then we can be sure that God is acting wisely and justly, even if our modern emotions do not like this aspect of God’s character.

(2) God is very specific about who should be wiped out entirely, and who should live. He was not feeling His way, moving against one tribe in Canaan to the next in an ad—hoc way. He did not offer progressive revelations of letting some live and others die, as circumstance dictated. Rather, we can trust that since God knows the heart, if the Canaanites had to be wiped out entirely, then they were so degenerate that they were beyond hope—all of them, even the women and children.
  1. Also, God in the Old Testament was not interested in converting these pagans or at least influencing them for righteousness, but only because they were too far gone. Reading their hearts, He commands, rather, that they should be eliminated—an extreme measure to be sure, but for those who trust God it is a necessary extreme, because the pagans’ corrupting influence was so great that they had to be taken out. If peaceful co—existence were possible, then God would have ordained that; He did not purpose to kill them just for the sake of bloodshed or in a confused, ad—hoc way. Peace was always the better goal.
americanthinker.com/2004/12/muhammads_wars_v_gods_wars.html
 
Namesake said:
I mentioned to a Jew that I think the God of the Old Testament is a cruel and violent God. That didn’t set well. But I can’t see it any other way. Maybe someone here can help me understand how the OT shows God as a loving merciful God.
Click to expand...
Why in the world would you want do that? Were you trying to start a fight or were simply wanting to insult him?
 
This is what the Lord of hosts has to say: ‘I will punish what Amalek did to Israel when he barred his way as he was coming up from Egypt. Go, now, attack Amalek, and deal with him and all that he has under the ban. Do not spare him, but kill men and women, children and infants, oxen and sheep, camels and asses.’ (1 Samuel 15:2-3 NAB)

Suppose you hear in one of the towns the LORD your God is giving you that some worthless rabble among you have led their fellow citizens astray by encouraging them to worship foreign gods. In such cases, you must examine the facts carefully. If you find it is true and can prove that such a detestable act has occurred among you, you must attack that town and completely destroy all its inhabitants, as well as all the livestock. Then you must pile all the plunder in the middle of the street and burn it. Put the entire town to the torch as a burnt offering to the LORD your God. That town must remain a ruin forever; it may never be rebuilt. Keep none of the plunder that has been set apart for destruction. Then the LORD will turn from his fierce anger and be merciful to you. He will have compassion on you and make you a great nation, just as he solemnly promised your ancestors. “The LORD your God will be merciful only if you obey him and keep all the commands I am giving you today, doing what is pleasing to him.” (Deuteronomy 13:13-19 NLT)

From there Elisha went up to Bethel. While he was on his way, some small boys came out of the city and jeered at him. “Go up baldhead,” they shouted, “go up baldhead!” The prophet turned and saw them, and he cursed them in the name of the Lord. Then two shebears came out of the woods and tore forty two of the children to pieces. (2 Kings 2:23-24 NAB)
If even then you remain hostile toward me and refuse to obey, I will inflict you with seven more disasters for your sins. I will release wild animals that will kill your children and destroy your cattle, so your numbers will dwindle and your roads will be deserted. (Leviticus 26:21-22 NLT)
 
Cruel and violent ?

Do you have any idea what the Israelites did time and time and time and time again after what God had done for them ???

One would think why they were chosen to be God’s people in the first place !
They didn’t deserve it !

But because of ONE man’s faithfulness, God had to tolerate them for centuries.

I won’t be surprised if God annihilates them completely for their unfaithfulness and wickedness.

Just read the Book of Jeremiah. You’ll see how God views the Israelites.

For the sake of the whole world, His plan had to be carried out and no obstacle was to stop Him from it and Israel was part of that plan.
 
I meant that it seems to me that when someone says things like “I"m surprised God hasn’t wiped them out”, they forget that if their own religion/group were to be judged in the same way, they’d be dust as well.

Of course our sciptures show time and time again, the Jewish people turning away from God. But that is human nature. Not Jewish nature. And no matter what we did as a people, we did not lose faith in God’s mercy.
 
Valke2 said:
Of course our sciptures show time and time again, the Jewish people turning away from God. But that is human nature. Not Jewish nature. And no matter what we did as a people, we did not lose faith in God’s mercy.
Click to expand...
👍 👍
 
Valke2 said:
I meant that it seems to me that when someone says things like “I"m surprised God hasn’t wiped them out”, they forget that if their own religion/group were to be judged in the same way, they’d be dust as well.

Of course our sciptures show time and time again, the Jewish people turning away from God. But that is human nature. Not Jewish nature. And no matter what we did as a people, we did not lose faith in God’s mercy.
Click to expand...
I certianly don’t make any negative judgement about Jews as a whole, but surely the Old Testament depicts a God who commands a great deal of violence?
 
Valke2 said:
And how have Christians withstood the test of time and faith?
Click to expand...
You misunderstood my point.

My point is to show that God is not cruel or violent as the OP has thought, especially not without reason.

Comprende?
 
IvanKaramozov said:
but surely the Old Testament depicts a God who commands a great deal of violence?
Click to expand...
It sure looks that way but we mustn’t presume to know things that only God knows.

God sees and knows everything. Nothing escapes Him.

If He commands certain things to be done, it is because He knows exactly what would happen if it’s not.

We don’t see into the future, He does.

Again, His plan of salvation must be carried out and it’s best that nothing stands in His way.
 
cathgal said:
But because of ONE man’s faithfulness, God had to tolerate them for centuries.

I won’t be surprised if God annihilates them completely for their unfaithfulness and wickedness.

Just read the Book of Jeremiah. You’ll see how God views the Israelites.
Click to expand...
Lets see how the God of Israel views Israel from the book of Jeremiah-
**Jeremiah31:31-37
“The time is coming,” declares the LORD,
"when I will make a new covenant
with the house of Israel
and with the house of Judah.

It will not be like the covenant
I made with their forefathers
when I took them by the hand
to lead them out of Egypt,
because they broke my covenant,
though I was a husband to them, "
declares the LORD.

“This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel
after that time,” declares the LORD.
"I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.

No longer will a man teach his neighbor,
or a man his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest,"
declares the LORD.
“For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more.”

This is what the LORD says,
he who appoints the sun
to shine by day,
who decrees the moon and stars
to shine by night,
who stirs up the sea
so that its waves roar—
the LORD Almighty is his name:

“Only if these decrees vanish from my sight,”
declares the LORD,
“will the descendants of Israel ever cease
to be a nation before me.”

This is what the LORD says:
“Only if the heavens above can be measured
and the foundations of the earth below be searched out
will I reject all the descendants of Israel
because of all they have done,”
declares the LORD. **

Cathgal, you should rethink how you would be surprised if God annihilates Israel for all they done.

Israel’s survival is as secure as the secrets of how God put the universe together.
 
cathgal said:
It sure looks that way but we mustn’t presume to know things that only God knows.

God sees and knows everything. Nothing escapes Him.

If He commands certain things to be done, it is because He knows exactly what would happen if it’s not.

We don’t see into the future, He does.

Again, His plan of salvation must be carried out and it’s best that nothing stands in His way.
Click to expand...
I don’t see how that can be accecpted.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top