Old Testament Law and Sacraments end with Jesus

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NewPerspective said:
you guys misunderstand me time and time again. Im not saying they are wrong, im just saying they are no longer necessary. Fair enough?
God Bless
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Which will still make you dead wrong.

Tell me…if there are no sacraments, then why does John 20:21-23 read.
21: Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.”
22: And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit.
23: If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”

Notice there is a commission to forgive or retain sin. How would that work if (as 1st John 1:9 and James 5:16 say) there is no sacrament of confession? I have yet to see a single n-C church that makes that work. Most simply ignore this passage altogether and tell people that confession directly to God is enough…but that certainly is not what the Word of God says here.

Not necessary? I disagree.:bible1:
 
7 Sacraments

1. Baptism

Mark 16:16
Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned

2.Reconciliation

2 Corinthians 5:18
Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation,

3.Holy Communion

John 6:51-52
51 “I am the living bread that came down out of heaven; if anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread also which I will give for the life of the world is My flesh.”

52 Then the Jews began to argue with one another, saying, “How can this man give us His flesh to eat?”

4. Confirmation

Acts 19:5-6

5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they began speaking with tongues and prophesying.

5. Holy Matrimony

Matthew 19

4 And He answered and said, "Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE,

5 and said, ‘FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH’?

6 “So they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate.”
6.Holy Orders

Matthew 19:11-12

11 But He said to them, "Not all men can accept this statement, but only those to whom it has been given.

12 “For there are eunuchs who were born that way from their mother’s womb; and there are eunuchs who were made eunuchs by men; and there are also eunuchs who made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. He who is able to accept this, let him accept it.”

7.Annointing of the Sick

Mark 6:13

13 And they were casting out many demons and were anointing with oil many sick people and healing them.
 
For those interested
Society of Friends
–noun a sect founded by George Fox in England about 1650, opposed to oath-taking and war.

Also called Quakers,

Sacraments
Early Friends did not believe in the reliance upon practice of the outward rites and sacraments, believing that holiness can exist in all the activities of one’s life—all of life is sacred. They experienced baptism by the Holy Spirit as an inward, transforming experience and knew communion with Christ in the midst of gathered worship in the expectant silence. Thus they did not perform baptism as a rite of membership. These Friends also believed that any meal with others could be a form of communion.
At various times some individuals or small groups of Friends have published corrective cautions against adopting the prohibition of some rite as itself being creedal. The focus should be upon God as Present Teacher, rather than on some human ritual, or the absence of a ritual. Most Friends therefore do not prohibit rites or ceremonies, but they do counsel against allowing these human inventions to take the place of direct experience and leading by God.
 
Have you ever read about the Early Church Fathers? Or anything they have ever written? You say the Sacraments ended with Jesus? How come the Early Church Fathers speak about the Sacraments still being used during the early church? In the years following the time of Jesus?!
catholic.com/library/sacraments.asp
 
fellowChristian said:
For those interested
Society of Friends
–noun a sect founded by George Fox in England about 1650, opposed to oath-taking and war.

Also called Quakers,

Sacraments
Early Friends did not believe in the reliance upon practice of the outward rites and sacraments, believing that holiness can exist in all the activities of one’s life—all of life is sacred. They experienced baptism by the Holy Spirit as an inward, transforming experience and knew communion with Christ in the midst of gathered worship in the expectant silence. Thus they did not perform baptism as a rite of membership. These Friends also believed that any meal with others could be a form of communion.
At various times some individuals or small groups of Friends have published corrective cautions against adopting the prohibition of some rite as itself being creedal. The focus should be upon God as Present Teacher, rather than on some human ritual, or the absence of a ritual. Most Friends therefore do not prohibit rites or ceremonies, but they do counsel against allowing these human inventions to take the place of direct experience and leading by God.
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Good post…one I heartly agree with…go figure!🙂
 
So the Early Friends did not believe in outward rites and sacraments?

But if you notice the Early Friends and their sect came together around the year 1650.

I know of a few “Early Friends” myself and they came together, after being taught by some of the original Apostles themselves,around the years 65-100 ad.

They are called The Early Church Fathers or Apostolic Fathers. Here is a chart
religionfacts.com/christianity/charts/church_fathers.htm

And if you ever look at a Timeline of Christianity you’ll notice a few interesting things.cwo.com/~pentrack/catholic/chron.html
  1. See how much time there is between the time of Christ and the time of the Quakers in 1650? (Over 1,600 years.) Do you think Jesus expected us to wait that long for His church?
  2. Ever heard of the Didache? (Didache: Instructions of the Apostles written in 65-150ad.)
    newadvent.org/cathen/04779a.htm
3.Here are the letters the Apostolic Fathers who If and when you read their letters you’ll notice the Sacraments still being used.

newadvent.org/fathers/

You see as far as I know the Catholic Church believes that holiness can exist in all the activities of one’s life—all of life is sacred. And we experience baptism by the Holy Spirit as an inward, transforming experience and know communion with Christ in the midst of gathered worship in the expectant silence.We also believe our focus should be upon God the father ,God the Son, and God the Holy Spirirt as our Present Teacher, We do not allow human inventions to take the place of direct experience and leading by God.

It is not one or the other it is all, it is complete. Not one,both. You owe it to yourself to rediscover the truth about the Catholic Church.

If you follow the “bread crumbs” you’ll see how Charles Fox who founded the Quakers broke off from the Church of England which was founded by King Henry VIII who broke off from the Catholic Church which was founded by Jesus Christ. The line ends there.
 
Actually it was George Fox…not Charles.

While you concern is heartwarming and appreciated, Friends seek to follow our Present Teacher…we will follow where He leads

I am pleased that Catholics share with Friends in recongnizing the sacredness of all aspects of life…the sacrament of all we experience in the Light.

One other memorable teaching of George Fox…he called those who would follow the Light of Christ in communion with Him, and seek a direct experiential relationship with Him…“Thee tells me what the prophets say…the tells me what the apostles say…but what can thee say?” While we look at the apostles and ECF and seek to understand their experience with the Light…we share in that same Light and virtue of life which led them…we have a Present Teacher and Guide…“Christ is among His people to teach them Himself.”

For those who seek Him and find meaning withing outwards signs and ordinances…we think that’s great if it leads you into greater understanding of His Light and Grace.

Peace to you Friend.
 
Publisher said:
Actually it was George Fox…not Charles.

While you concern is heartwarming and appreciated, Friends seek to follow our Present Teacher…we will follow where He leads

I am pleased that Catholics share with Friends in recongnizing the sacredness of all aspects of life…the sacrament of all we experience in the Light.

One other memorable teaching of George Fox…he called those who would follow the Light of Christ in communion with Him, and seek a direct experiential relationship with Him…“Thee tells me what the prophets say…the tells me what the apostles say…but what can thee say?” While we look at the apostles and ECF and seek to understand their experience with the Light…we share in that same Light and virtue of life which led them…we have a Present Teacher and Guide…“Christ is among His people to teach them Himself.”

For those who seek Him and find meaning withing outwards signs and ordinances…we think that’s great if it leads you into greater understanding of His Light and Grace.

Peace to you Friend.
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Hi Publisher -

I’m going to go off topic just a second, sorry -

Have you ever been to New England? Early Quaker settlements a peppered all around here. There are cemetaries, meeting houses, farms and other things. All date from the 1600’s. I’m sure you’ld be interested.

Providence, the capitol city of Rhode Island, also has the very first Baptist church in America.

Here are a couple links…
in AmericaFirst Baptist Church

rootsweb.com/~rinewpor/quaker.html

visitrhodeisland.com/attractions/propertyDetail.aspx?id=1481&ref=/attractions/index.aspx

Ok, we can go back now. I just thought that you may be interested.

Subrosa
 
I haven’t been to New England…I’ve been to a few Meetings in the Mid-west. One of my ambitions is to take the “Quaker Tour” of the British Isles. Friends open their homes throughout England, Ireland and Scotland for visitors stay with them to take the historical tour and visit some of the old Meeting Houses.
 
NewPerspective said:
Jesus was the fulfillment of the law and the end thereof. Old Testament sacraments symbolic of sacrificial OT principle, are no longer needed as result of THE SACRIFICE JESUS CHRIST MADE FOR MANKIND. The observation of sacraments, charity, and baby baptism is not your ticket to salvation folks. Sorry to burst your bubble. You need to go ahead and read the whole Word of God and not just the OT and interpret it in a carnal way with no understanding of the New Covenant God made with His people through the sending of His Son to die for a people deserving of eternal damnation. Im not here to attack i just want you to understand that sacraments are not synonymous with salvation any more. Jesus Christ is our salvation and our foundation and needs to be where our trust is. Not in sacraments and Hail Marys.
God Bless
P.S. Jesus had brothers
SIncerely
NP
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ROFL
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

Man, can we get a “foaming at the mouth” smiley for these Fundamentalist attempts at provocation?

Chris
 
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