Old Testament Myths

[Tim_D]

You have a remarkable capacity for not understanding the simplest of statements.

You noticed that too, huh?

 

[Blue_Horizon]

Hopefully soon, you all will find a few minutes to tell me that post 192 is right or wrong about the first three begging chapters of Genesis. That should be a quick five minutes since I only deal with three chapters in the Bible.

Hello Granny.
You and I seem to speak different languages most of the time, yet we both seem to converse well with different groups well enough.

I saw the post but didnt understand it so did not feel it was my place to support or demurr sorry.

 

[grannymh]

Hello Granny.
You and I seem to speak different languages most of the time, yet we both seem to converse well with different groups well enough.

I saw the post but didnt understand it so did not feel it was my place to support or demurr sorry.

Thank you for taking the time to read post 192.

And a special sincere thank you for your honesty.

 

[Blue_Horizon]

Thank you for taking the time to read post 192.

And a special sincere thank you for your honesty.

All good in the hood (at least with most posters)

 

[DebChris]

Hello Granny.
You and I seem to speak different languages most of the time, yet we both seem to converse well with different groups well enough.

I saw the post but didnt understand it so did not feel it was my place to support or demurr sorry.

There are many, like Chesterton and Newman who have spoken and written on the issue of how we are to read Scripture more elegantly than I.
Every priest and other instructor that I have had has focused on the importance of looking at the message the author is trying to convey.
Do we focus on the snake or the deception of Satan, even though he is never mentioned in Genesis?
What is the difference between Original Sin as taught by the Catholic Church, and Original Sin as taught by those denominations that have separated themselves from the Universal Church? One is a fall from divine grace because Man decided he no longer needed God. The other is a disease that infects the nature of Man.
What was God’s response as He looked upon what He had created? We know that in the 19th century Janenism crept even into the Catholic Church to deny man’s goodness, and to place an overemphasis on his sinfulness.
Did John lose Faith in Jesus, or were the words that Our Savior gave him in answer to his question meant to quiet the doubts of his disciples? John the Baptist after all knew Jesus from within the womb. The priest that taught Bible Study while I was overseas said the answer sent to John’s disciples was meant to quench their doubts. He was a man well versed in Biblical history. I learned so much from him.

 

[grannymh]

What is the difference between Original Sin as taught by the Catholic Church, and Original Sin as taught by those denominations that have separated themselves from the Universal Church? One is a fall from divine grace because Man decided he no longer needed God. The other is a disease that infects the nature of Man.

The current difference is an originating polygenesis population in the thousands and an originating population of two. Actually, Pope Pius XII recognized that difference in the 1940’s
Humani Generis w2.vatican.va/content/pius-xii/en/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-xii_enc_12081950_humani-generis.html

 

[Blue_Horizon]

There are many, like Chesterton and Newman who have spoken and written on the issue of how we are to read Scripture more elegantly than I.
Every priest and other instructor that I have had has focused on the importance of looking at the message the author is trying to convey.
Do we focus on the snake or the deception of Satan, even though he is never mentioned in Genesis?
What is the difference between Original Sin as taught by the Catholic Church, and Original Sin as taught by those denominations that have separated themselves from the Universal Church? One is a fall from divine grace because Man decided he no longer needed God. The other is a disease that infects the nature of Man.
What was God’s response as He looked upon what He had created? We know that in the 19th century Janenism crept even into the Catholic Church to deny man’s goodness, and to place an overemphasis on his sinfulness.
Did John lose Faith in Jesus, or were the words that Our Savior gave him in answer to his question meant to quiet the doubts of his disciples? John the Baptist after all knew Jesus from within the womb. The priest that taught Bible Study while I was overseas said the answer sent to John’s disciples was meant to quench their doubts. He was a man well versed in Biblical history. I learned so much from him.

As a young man in the early 1980s I attended talks by Fr. Raymond Brown, a Magisterially highly respected and leading middle of the road Catholic Scripture Scholar who opined things more controversial than what is being discussed here.

Even then he was decried, even at public presentations, by ultra conservative lay Catholics who by baptism and their direct mind-meld with the HS felt it was their God given duty to exorcise him from the bosom of the righteous.

Things haven’t changed a lot - at least those folk were old-timers, nowadays it seems to be the young.

 

[reggieM]

Things haven’t changed a lot - at least those folk were old-timers, nowadays it seems to be the young.

There are a lot of good reasons why it is the young. And they will inherit whatever is left of the Church.

 

[DebChris]

There are a lot of good reasons why it is the young. And they will inherit whatever is left of the Church.

“You are Peter and upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it.” (Matthew 16)

Where is the Church currently shrinking? In Europe and in the United States. There are many distractions. The United States is actually considered mission country.
I attend Mass in what is considered the mission chapel to a larger parish. Included in the weekly bulletin was a message by our Pastor about how many parishes are being consolidated. We can no longer depend on the parish priest to do all the work. The laity needs to step up.
That was not a problem in my Middle Eastern parish, the only Catholic church in the country. A new cathedral with land donated by the Muslim king is now being constructed.
Where is the Catholic Church growing the fastest? In Asia, South America, and especially Africa where there is a high demand for priests to meet growing parishes.
People are hungry for the Gospel. They are looking for hope.

What drew Archbishop Tutu to the Catholic Church in an age of apartheid living in South Africa? Catholics were different, as his mother explained to a young boy. They saw him and his mother as people, to be treated with respect regardless of skin color.

 

[reggieM]

Yes, good points.
I have my opinions on why the Church is shrinking in those places. It’s not just distractions.
We have African priests coming as missionaries to our American diocese. Those priests are radically different. They understand why we are dying. cardinal Sarah speaks about it.
My opinion on our decline is validated every day from Catholics I encounter on CAF.
I was part of a Lebanese Catholic parish for many years. Wonderful fidelity to God and sincere love in the community.

“You are Peter and upon this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it.” (Matthew 16)

Where is the Church currently shrinking? In Europe and in the United States. There are many distractions. The United States is actually considered mission country.
I attend Mass in what is considered the mission chapel to a larger parish. Included in the weekly bulletin was a message by our Pastor about how many parishes are being consolidated. We can no longer depend on the parish priest to do all the work. The laity needs to step up.
That was not a problem in my Middle Eastern parish, the only Catholic church in the country. A new cathedral with land donated by the Muslim king is now being constructed.
Where is the Catholic Church growing the fastest? In Asia, South America, and especially Africa where there is a high demand for priests to meet growing parishes.
People are hungry for the Gospel. They are looking for hope.

What drew Archbishop Tutu to the Catholic Church in an age of apartheid living in South Africa? Catholics were different, as his mother explained to a young boy. They saw him and his mother as people, to be treated with respect regardless of skin color.

 

[DebChris]

Yes, good points.
I have my opinions on why the Church is shrinking in those places. It’s not just distractions.
We have African priests coming as missionaries to our American diocese. Those priests are radically different. They understand why we are dying. cardinal Sarah speaks about it.
My opinion on our decline is validated every day from Catholics I encounter on CAF.
I was part of a Lebanese Catholic parish for many years. Wonderful fidelity to God and sincere love in the community.

Definitely sincere love in the community and fidelity to God.
It’s hard to forget the shocked reaction I received from a taxi driver the first time I asked to be driven to the Catholic Church for the New Year’s Vigil. It was before I had learned I could just simply take the bus. I was one of the few Westerners who actually belonged to the parish in the Middle East.
The main church was full. The courtyard was full. They had to set up speakers and video in the auditorium to accommodate the overflow.
There is standing room only at every Mass, which overflows into the courtyard.

 

[NonTimendum]

Yes, good points.
I have my opinions on why the Church is shrinking in those places. It’s not just distractions.
We have African priests coming as missionaries to our American diocese. Those priests are radically different. They understand why we are dying. cardinal Sarah speaks about it.
My opinion on our decline is validated every day from Catholics I encounter on CAF.
I was part of a Lebanese Catholic parish for many years. Wonderful fidelity to God and sincere love in the community.

One of the best priests I’ve ever had was a man from Africa with a really thick accent. He was very plain-spoken but extremely wise and I’ve never met someone so good natured. There were a lot of racist people in that parish who were upset when he came in but by the time he left I know he was one of the more well-loved priests. I never feel comfortable “rating” priests, but he was easily 10/10 haha.

 

[grannymh]

The real problem is that some, not all, modern folk cannot recognize the spiritual world which is actually different from the material world.

This occurs because students of the first three real chapters of Genesis fail to spot the dramatic shift from Genesis 1: 25 to Genesis 1:27. The obvious is that the amazing author put the items of the material world first. In contrast, the spiritual world, Genesis 1: 27 and following, is essential in the major Catholic teachings about human nature.

The protocol of the visible Catholic Church on earth does not declare Catholic doctrines about solely material items which are solely in the material world. Normally, this says that when the evolution theory is about material items which remain in the material world, the problems belong to scientists and are not a part of major Ecumenical Catholic Church Councils. A list of these councils begins on page 720 of the *Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition. *Those students who are interested in Sacred Scripture should check out the Index of Citations which begins on page 689 of the universal Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second Edition.

Therefore, when people are trying to pin Holy Scripture quotes to basic material science, it is a valuable exercise, but it does not produce basic duly declared Catholic doctrines about material items in the material realm of natural science.

Still, there is the spiritual world which cannot be ignored. Here the Science of Human Evolution clashes with Catholicism. Once the spiritual world of the Divine Creator and the original human person is understood, students can be happy or not about the teachings regarding material items in a material world. And at the same time, students can accept the CCC 355 teaching that in human nature there is the unity of the spiritual and material worlds.

With a solid grasp on the meanings of the spiritual world, students can enjoy the material world.

 

[DebChris]

Many years ago, I read the book, A Shepherd Looks at Psalm 23. It was very much worth reading. I have had priests since talk about how a shepherd will become the gate at the of night as he beds his sheep.
It does help to know that Gehenna was the garbage dump at the edge of Jerusalem.
The needle’s eye is a mountain pass. In order to get through it, merchants had to unload their livestock.

 

[grannymh]

In addition, there is little chance that young modern folk on a free speech public message board actually understand the depth of some Catholic “why” doctrines (in addition to God is real) flowing from the first three informative chapters of Genesis.

One example of the “why” doctrines is the insistence that one original Adam is necessary to understand the doctrines regarding Original Sin. Another “why” is the necessity of the Divine Second Person of the Most Holy Trinity. John 3: 16-17.

In brief, students of the first three sacred chapters of Genesis have to exercise their serious brain power. From what appears on the internet, there are not a lot of serious students.

 

[grannymh]

One of the best ways to understand the first three chapters of Genesis is to understand and accept the pertinent Catholic doctrines flowing from these chapters. The current problems exist because for some reason, a material approach approved in the material world is added.

Please do not confuse the decomposing human anatomy with the animals in the first section of the first chapter in Genesis. These lovely animals do not have the gift of Genesis 1: 27. In other words, the spiritual soul trumps as it brings the whole person into the spiritual world of the Divine Creator. CCC 396 refers to the human person as a spiritual creature.

Footnote Genesis 2: 17 is used twice in CCC 396.

For additional info, please read CCC 1730-1731.

 

[reggieM]

Definitely sincere love in the community and fidelity to God.
It’s hard to forget the shocked reaction I received from a taxi driver the first time I asked to be driven to the Catholic Church for the New Year’s Vigil. It was before I had learned I could just simply take the bus. I was one of the few Westerners who actually belonged to the parish in the Middle East.
The main church was full. The courtyard was full. They had to set up speakers and video in the auditorium to accommodate the overflow.
There is standing room only at every Mass, which overflows into the courtyard.

It’s great that you had that experience. It really teaches a lot.

 

[reggieM]

One of the best priests I’ve ever had was a man from Africa with a really thick accent. He was very plain-spoken but extremely wise and I’ve never met someone so good natured. There were a lot of racist people in that parish who were upset when he came in but by the time he left I know he was one of the more well-loved priests. I never feel comfortable “rating” priests, but he was easily 10/10 haha.

It’s sad that we have racists here also, but the good priests never talk about it and like with your situation - they win people over! One of our African priests when he preaches is absolutely on fire with love of God and the Catholic Faith. He doesn’t water it down - that’s for sure.

 

[DebChris]

CCC283The question of the origin of the world and of man has been the object of many scientific studies which have splendidly enriched our knowledge of the age and dimensions of the cosmos, the development of life-forms, and the appearance of man. These discoveries invite us to even greater admiration for the greatness of the Creator, prompting us to give him thanks for the understanding and wisdom he gives to scholars and researchers…

From a literary standpoint (CCC289), the first 3 chapters of Genesis may had several diverse sources.

CCC295We believe that God created the world according to his wisdom.

God created the world. We do not believe, like the Deists or Gnostics that He left it alone once it was created.

The words of Scripture begin,“In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.”
The Gospels of St. John begins, “In the beginning was the Word and the Word was God.”
God gave a beginning to all that exists, and nothing exists without God.

Man was created in God’s image and given responsibility for God’s creation. Genesis tells the story of Man’s Fall from Grace when Man thought that he did not need God.
Man is not abandoned. There is the promise of salvation.

 

[PNEUMA]

CCC283The question of the origin of the world and of man has been the object of many scientific studies which have splendidly enriched our knowledge of the age and dimensions of the cosmos, the development of life-forms, and the appearance of man. These discoveries invite us to even greater admiration for the greatness of the Creator, prompting us to give him thanks for the understanding and wisdom he gives to scholars and researchers…

From a literary standpoint (CCC289), the first 3 chapters of Genesis may had several diverse sources.

CCC295We believe that God created the world according to his wisdom.

God created the world. We do not believe, like the Deists or Gnostics that He left it alone once it was created.

The words of Scripture begin,“In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.”
The Gospels of St. John begins, “In the beginning was the Word and the Word was God.”
God gave a beginning to all that exists, and nothing exists without God.

Man was created in God’s image and given responsibility for God’s creation. Genesis tells the story of Man’s Fall from Grace when Man thought that he did not need God.
Man is not abandoned. There is the promise of salvation.

God works with words. God spoke the old world into existence. And then he spoke the new world into existence, through Jesus and the Church.

John 6:63 “The words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life. But among you there are some who do not believe”

John 14:10 “The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own; but the Father who dwells in me does his works. Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; but if you do not, then believe me because of the works themselves. Very truly, I tell you, the one who believes in me will also do the works that I do and, in fact, will do greater works than these”