Old Testament Newbie Has a Bible Translation Question

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HillbillyHermit

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After years of sporadic reading of the NT I recently started the Quick Journey 90-day Reading Plan from biblestudyforcatholics.com. I’m still in the Old Testament, and while some light has been shed on the NT(most recently: Mary being the new Ark of the Covenant), some of the footnotes in the NAB have me, well…less than uplifted. Google has provided a lot of reading material from this forum and other sites on the topic of the NAB and its footnotes. Maybe too much for someone leaning more toward devotional reading than deep study.

Being a family caregiver, another Bible isn’t in the budget right now.

Here are the Bibles I own…
In the ol’ fashioned book form:
NAB
KJV
GNT Catholic Edition
RSV-2CE New Testament and Psalms

On the PC:
RSV (Biblia Clerus)
NAB (Biblia Clerus)
KJV
GNB
DR (with the great Haydock Commentary)

The regular book form is preferred for daily reading. More seems to sink in that way. In that format, for the OT reading, the GNT-CE and KJV are standing out right now. The GNT-CE has come in very handy when the PC isn’t, especially when the daily Mass readings are a little confusing/unclear for both me and my 73 year old mother whom I read to.

The KJV is what I bought a long time ago before knowing Catholics and Protestants use different Bibles. The language is beautiful though, and makes me slow down to reflect more. Also, an interesting quote worth mentioning from one of EWTN’s news articles makes me feel less uneasy about using the KJV:
The Vatican exhibition hopes to show that all Christians can share the King James Bible in common.
Click to expand...
The full article can be found here:
ewtn.com/vnews/getstory.asp?number=118226

Now that I’ve taken the long way(sorry!), finally the question. :o

Knowing the limitations of both translations, which would you recommend for mainly devotional reading and light/beginner study, and why?
 
I prefer the RSV-2CE, aka Ignatius Bible. I just love its word use and cadences, and it spurs prayer in me.
 
I love my RSV-2CE NT and Psalms. If memory serves, that translation’s history goes back to the KJV. They both have a nice cadence for prayerful reading. Hindsight being 20/20, I probably should’ve gone with a hardcover Ignatius Bible. At the time a Bible that fit in the hand for mainly NT reading and occasionally praying the Psalms was preferred.

The main advantages I can see for the GNT-CE are that it has the full canon of the OT and the dynamic equivalence style of translation will make it easier to get a basic grasp of what’s being read.
 
I love to use 2 translations:
The RSV 2CE - this is a very scholarly bible, with a Formal Equivalence Translation.
The Ignatius Catholic Study bible pares this translation up with a very good light accedemic commentary by Scot Hahn and Mitch Curtis.

The CCB (Christian Community Bible) (Large Print Edition). This is a bible translated by a catholic team for Third World Catholics. It has a very Pastoral Commentary. It is a dynamic equivalence translation (easier to read)

You say you have the RSV already.
The CCB is free to download in .PDF or MS Word formats from the publishers website.
here

You already have other dynamic equivalence translations in the GNB and the NAB. But I would recommend looking at the CCB text and seeing if you like it.

The CCB is an inexpensive version if you wanted to buy it. Amazon sell it in the EU for about £12, but I cant find it on their US website for a sensible price . Many catholic book sellers do sell it state-side.

The Ignatius Catholic Study Bible is about £13 for the N.T. (O.T. commentary is not yet finished) (US$17 on Amazon)
 
I too was very disappointed on the notes of the NAB. Have you looked into the NAB-RE? I have not purchased it myself, but from what I understand all of the notes for the Old testament have been revised or at least reexamined. However, nothing has been done for the new testament notes. (but I hear that is in the works)

I love my RSV-2CE. I also have the Ignatius New Testament Study Bible, which is really good for typology and mystery (ark of the covenant as type whose fulfillment is seen Mary, etc.). I’ve been waiting for Ignatius to put out the old testament study bible but it may still be a couple of years out. Navarre is an option for old testament and of course they do have multi-book volumes. Sometimes you can find them reasonably priced used on amazon.

I hear the the New Jerusalem bible is ok if you like the translation. ISBN-13: 978-0385142649

As for me I’ve been considering buying an inexpensive NAB-re and a New Jerusalem Bible, just to see how they are.
 
I do not like the NAB at all. Its notes are toxic. It is based on a protestant translation, and its altered wording makes defense of Catholic doctrine much more difficult from scripture. As to a commentary, it is pretty hard to beat the Haydock Commentary.
 
I thought I’d give the GNT-CE another try but ran into an odd translation of 1 Samuel 18:1:

(GNT) Saul and David finished their conversation. After that, Saul’s son *Jonathan was deeply attracted to David ** and came to love him as much as he loved himself.

*Emphasis added by me. Deeply attracted, to me, seems like a physical attraction. That’s the common usage anyway. Odd.

Some other translations have it:

(KJV) And it came to pass, when he had made an end of speaking unto Saul, that the soul of Jonathan was knit with the soul of David, and Jonathan loved him as his own soul.

The DRB matches the KJV word for word.

(RSV) When he had finished speaking to Saul, the soul of Jonathan was knit to the soul of David, and Jonathan loved him as his own soul.

And finally, the NAB:
By the time David finished speaking with Saul, Jonathan had become as fond of David as if his life depended on him; he loved him as he loved himself.

Not counting the footnotes, the NAB seems easiest for me to understand. Although the KJV, DRB, and RSV aren’t beyond my ability, it would take some time to ponder

Maybe for now I’ll stick with the NAB and not let the footnotes bother me, or just plain ignore them altogether. Some are helpful, but for the most part the Haydock Commentary just blows it away for building up faith and knowledge.

Does the RSV-CE have a note explaining this verse? I only have the OT in the Biblia Clerus software.
 
The chronology of JOHN 2:4 From various translations over the centuries:

Latin Vulgate (382-405) "et dicit ei Iesus quid mihi et tibi est mulier nondum venit hora mea - rendered by the college at Douay: “And Jesus saith to her: Woman, what is that to me and to thee? My hour is not yet come.”

Wycliff Bible - early anti-Catholics (1382-1395) "And Jesus saith to her, What to me and to thee, woman? mine hour came not yet.

Luther Bibel (1545) “Jesus spricht zu ihr: Weib, was habe ich mit dir zu schaffen? Meine Stunde ist noch nicht gekommen.” (Jesus said to her, Woman, what have I to create with you? My hour is not yet come")

Douay-Rheims (1582) "And Jesus saith to her: Woman, what is that to me and to thee? my hour is not yet come.

King James Version (1611) "Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come.

Darby Translation (1890) "Jesus says to her, What have I to do with thee, woman? mine hour has not yet come.

NASB (1963) "And Jesus said to her, 'Woman, what does that have to do with us? My hour has not yet come.”

NIV (1973) "Woman, why do you involve me?” Jesus replied. “My hour has not yet come.”

Good News Translation - Catholic Edition (2001) “You must not tell me what to do :eek: ,” Jesus replied. “My time has not yet come.”

We have gone from an almost rhetorical question by Jesus, all the way to Him rebuking His own mother! Has God’s word changed, or have man’s itching ears desired change?

Yes, translations matter.
 
po18guy said:
The chronology of JOHN 2:4 From various translations over the centuries:

Latin Vulgate (382-405) "et dicit ei Iesus quid mihi et tibi est mulier nondum venit hora mea - rendered by the college at Douay: “And Jesus saith to her: Woman, what is that to me and to thee? My hour is not yet come.”

Wycliff Bible - early anti-Catholics (1382-1395) "And Jesus saith to her, What to me and to thee, woman? mine hour came not yet.

Luther Bibel (1545) “Jesus spricht zu ihr: Weib, was habe ich mit dir zu schaffen? Meine Stunde ist noch nicht gekommen.” (Jesus said to her, Woman, what have I to create with you? My hour is not yet come")

Douay-Rheims (1582) "And Jesus saith to her: Woman, what is that to me and to thee? my hour is not yet come.

King James Version (1611) "Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come.

Darby Translation (1890) "Jesus says to her, What have I to do with thee, woman? mine hour has not yet come.

NASB (1963) "And Jesus said to her, 'Woman, what does that have to do with us? My hour has not yet come.”

NIV (1973) "Woman, why do you involve me?” Jesus replied. “My hour has not yet come.”

Good News Translation - Catholic Edition (2001) “You must not tell me what to do :eek: ,” Jesus replied. “My time has not yet come.”

We have gone from an almost rhetorical question by Jesus, all the way to Him rebuking His own mother! Has God’s word changed, or have man’s itching ears desired change?

Yes, translations matter.
Click to expand...
“What to me and to you.” That’s almost the exact same question the demoniac at Capernaum posed at Jesus.
 
To reiterate: a new Bible isn’t in the budget right now.

Maybe I should’ve done more research into the translation choices. I have to say though, in defense of the GNT, that it does a better job IMO with Luke 14:26:
Those who come to me cannot be my disciples unless they love me more than they love father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, and themselves as well.

From what I’ve found, that’s the modern English equivalent to what was meant in that verse.

So, I guess it’s still NAB, KJV, or GNT?

A search of EWTN yielded some interesting results. Here are a few of them:

ewtn.com/vexperts/showmessage_print.asp?number=424275&language=en

ewtn.com/vexperts/showmessage_print.asp?number=380014&language=en

ewtn.com/vexperts/showmessage_print.asp?number=374699&language=en

ewtn.com/vexperts/showmessage_print.asp?number=339409&language=en

According to these and some other results it would be best to leave the GNT alone, the KJV is a better translation than the NAB, and the NAB’s footnotes/introductions are bad in many places.

What sayest thou? (He said, practicing up for cracking open a King James Bible.) 😉
 
HillbillyHermit said:
After years of sporadic reading of the NT I recently started the Quick Journey 90-day Reading Plan from biblestudyforcatholics.com. I’m still in the Old Testament, and while some light has been shed on the NT(most recently: Mary being the new Ark of the Covenant), some of the footnotes in the NAB have me, well…less than uplifted. Google has provided a lot of reading material from this forum and other sites on the topic of the NAB and its footnotes. Maybe too much for someone leaning more toward devotional reading than deep study.

Being a family caregiver, another Bible isn’t in the budget right now.

Here are the Bibles I own…
In the ol’ fashioned book form:
NAB
KJV
GNT Catholic Edition
RSV-2CE New Testament and Psalms

On the PC:
RSV (Biblia Clerus)
NAB (Biblia Clerus)
KJV
GNB
DR (with the great Haydock Commentary)

The regular book form is preferred for daily reading. More seems to sink in that way. In that format, for the OT reading, the GNT-CE and KJV are standing out right now. The GNT-CE has come in very handy when the PC isn’t, especially when the daily Mass readings are a little confusing/unclear for both me and my 73 year old mother whom I read to.

The KJV is what I bought a long time ago before knowing Catholics and Protestants use different Bibles. The language is beautiful though, and makes me slow down to reflect more. Also, an interesting quote worth mentioning from one of EWTN’s news articles makes me feel less uneasy about using the KJV:

The full article can be found here:
ewtn.com/vnews/getstory.asp?number=118226

Now that I’ve taken the long way(sorry!), finally the question. :o

Knowing the limitations of both translations, which would you recommend for mainly devotional reading and light/beginner study, and why?
Click to expand...
Thanks for the article on the KJV. I just bought a copy of the KJV to have for reference (and for people who come knocking at the door). Barnes and Noble has a series out now called the ‘Leatherbound Classics’ which features many classic writers and includes the KJV Bible. This KJV Bible is a leather bound hardcover with a beautiful gold black and red design on it (very ornate), it uses thick paper with gold edges and very readable print. But the best thing is that it contains well over 200 prints of Gustave Dore etchings, scattered all through the Bible. All this for $25. The Gustave Dore prints are worth it alone. 👍
 
Thanks for the article on the KJV.
Click to expand...
You’re welcome, CalCatholic. 😃
Barnes and Noble has a series out now called the ‘Leatherbound Classics’ which features many classic writers and includes the KJV Bible. This KJV Bible is a leather bound hardcover with a beautiful gold black and red design on it (very ornate), it uses thick paper with gold edges and very readable print. But the best thing is that it contains well over 200 prints of Gustave Dore etchings, scattered all through the Bible. All this for $25. The Gustave Dore prints are worth it alone.
Click to expand...
I found it on the site. Very beautifully made Bible, and the price is unbelievable! Right now the price point is at $22.50. I probably have that much in loose change and soda cans.:hmmm:

Was thinking back to when reading the Bible filled me with awe and increased the desire to know more and become closer to God. It just so happens that the KJV was the one that did it, and the one that led me to join the RCIA and be received into the Church in my early 20s. (All 3: Baptism, Confirmation, and First Communion.) The closest to have that same effect have been the RSV-2CE NT and Psalms and the Douay Rheims. It’ll be hard not to get that KJV.

Now, what to do with the NAB? If it wasn’t for the footnotes I’d give it away. Wouldn’t want to be the cause of anyone else struggling with faith because of them. The GNT could be donated to the parish for a younger person that would need it. :hmmm:
 
po18guy said:
The chronology of JOHN 2:4 From various translations over the centuries:

Latin Vulgate (382-405) "et dicit ei Iesus quid mihi et tibi est mulier nondum venit hora mea - rendered by the college at Douay: “And Jesus saith to her: Woman, what is that to me and to thee? My hour is not yet come.”

Wycliff Bible - early anti-Catholics (1382-1395) "And Jesus saith to her, What to me and to thee, woman? mine hour came not yet.

Luther Bibel (1545) “Jesus spricht zu ihr: Weib, was habe ich mit dir zu schaffen? Meine Stunde ist noch nicht gekommen.” (Jesus said to her, Woman, what have I to create with you? My hour is not yet come")

Douay-Rheims (1582) "And Jesus saith to her: Woman, what is that to me and to thee? my hour is not yet come.

King James Version (1611) "Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come.

Darby Translation (1890) "Jesus says to her, What have I to do with thee, woman? mine hour has not yet come.

NASB (1963) "And Jesus said to her, 'Woman, what does that have to do with us? My hour has not yet come.”

NIV (1973) "Woman, why do you involve me?” Jesus replied. “My hour has not yet come.”

Good News Translation - Catholic Edition (2001) “You must not tell me what to do :eek: ,” Jesus replied. “My time has not yet come.”
Click to expand...
Greek: καὶ λέγει αὐτῇ ὁ Ἰησοῦς: τί ἐμοὶ καὶ σοί, γύναι; οὔπω ἥκει ἡ ὥρα μου.

Google: he says to her Jesus: what me and thee, woman? oupo ikei my time. 🙂

I’ll stick to the Latin.
 
I had a hard enough time with all the rules of English when I was in school, so learning another language is out for this guy.
 
HillbillyHermit said:
I had a hard enough time with all the rules of English when I was in school, so learning another language is out for this guy.
Click to expand...
What do the rules of English have to do with learning another language, if I may ask? Translations don’t have to make English grammatical sense to be understood properly. In fact, forcing translators to make grammatical or verbal sense invites creativity and guesswork, something I don’t want in my Bible.

You don’t learn too much theology when studying physics or math but you sure can learn how to measure potential error.
 
I still struggle with proper sentence structure with English, so if anything I’d rather become more proficient in my native tongue before even thinking of attempting another language.

To each his own.
:irish2:
 
The RSV-2CE is a “grandchild” of the KJV. You can use your Strong’s concordance quite well with the RSVetc.

I suggest you stick with it.

For study purposes, you have (in ascending order):
  1. A bible with no commentary or cross-references
  2. A bible with some footnotes and cross-references
  3. A study bible, like the Ignatius Study Bible (New Testament) based on the RSV-2CE.
  4. Full commentary, like the Haydock (I guess, I don’t have one)
  5. Other commentaries, like protestant and jewish
  6. An academic commentary, like the only one I know of The New Jerome Biblical Commentary, with no Bible text.
In the domain of Jewish commentaries, there’s The Jewish Study Bible (all in one, commentary and Jewish translation [1985]) and then there’s expanded commentaries, like the 5 volume Jewish Publication Society series on the Torah, plus other commentaries coming along regularly (so it seems).

The Catholic Church says that the Jewish sources are “first class” aids to studying the bible, but only when used “with discretion.”
 
HillbillyHermit said:
To reiterate: a new Bible isn’t in the budget right now
Click to expand...
Have an eBay account? I located a 1914 Douay-Rheims in excellent condition for $10. Also found a near new 1953 “Confraternity” (CCD) bible for the same price. I like both, but the CCD has a slightly more modern, but orthodox New Testament, yet still uses the D-R Old Testament.
 
Have an eBay account?
Click to expand...
No, I don’t. Long story short… I don’t bother because of a problem with PayPal. Seeing that it is needed for Ebay, I use neither now. Hope that makes sense, I haven’t finished the 1st cup of coffee yet and the fog hasn’t cleared.

Right now I’m reading the KJV and enjoying it. If there are any areas that need clarification I can check the Haydock Commentary on E-Sword. Once I get to the deuterocanon, the computer can be used. Then there are many choices between what’s on E-Sword and Biblia Clerus. Maybe the next time around with the 90 day reading plan I’ll read the RSV-CE that’s on Biblia Clerus or the DRB on E-Sword. I’m thinkin’ the Haydock Commentary will shed a lot of light on things for me.

A Douay Rheims for 10 bucks, wow! Someone here should grab that.
The RSV-2CE is a “grandchild” of the KJV. You can use your Strong’s concordance quite well with the RSVetc.
Click to expand...
I might just stick with my RSV-2CE NT and Psalms and KJV combo for now and spend more time checking out different translations on the PC. I think Biblia Clerus has the 1st edition RSV, so the OT can be read on that. I have this strange habit of Bible impulse buying that needs to be curbed.

It looks like the RSV-CE is the go-to translation for the more conservative/orthodox study materials that are being published in recent years, so that will be put into consideration also.
 
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