Yes, only the triune God is omnipresent. But I think that you ment “omniscient,” correct?
As to how much they perceive of events on earth (apart from us praying to them), we simply don’t know.You’re right, of course, as “limited omniscience” is an oxymoron. But the fact that Mary can hear literally millions (oh, if only it were billions) of prayers simultaneously is certainly beyond human capability.Since when do mary or any of the Saints need to be omnipresent or omniscient?
They need to hear all prayers that are addressed to them, for sure, but that doesn’t require omniscience or omnipresence, for people don’t pray to them at literally all times and in all places.
No, I was talking about Omnipresence. It just never occurred to me until I started praying to Mary and the Saints. When it comes to them helping us with our prayers I guess it boils down to time and they live in eternity and we don’t.
They are not omnipresent. Their ability to hear our prayers of intercession is entirely dependent on the Will of God. He permits it.
Well, doesn’t Saint John say that when we are in heaven ‘we shall be like Him for we shall see Him as He really is’? Why would we not be ‘like Him’ in having more-than-human capacities of hearing prayers that are addressed to us?
Good point
**I am curious about this statement it presents a problem. The question is asked about prayers to Mary, etc. Who did believers pray to in the first place before the church added a list of patron saints? Does this mean there were times that certain possibilities in prayer were null before these people were raised to a status where prayers are attributed to them in regards to specific issues.?Since when do mary or any of the Saints need to be omnipresent or omniscient?
They need to hear all prayers that are addressed to them, for sure, but that doesn’t require omniscience or omnipresence, for people don’t pray to them at literally all times and in all places.
Well, the bible is pretty clear about the Saints brining prayers to God,so I don’t know how that would reflect on the Sacrifice at the Cross.
Before Mary and the rest of the saints in Heaven were there, we prayed to God…just as we do now. When we say we pray to Mary or another saint, we are merely asking that saint to join us in our prayer to God for some certain petition. Paul asked that we pray for each other just as I’m sure you ask others to pray for you or your intentions. This is exactly what we are asking of the saints…and who better to have praying with us than the saints in Heaven…it is written that the prayer of a righteous man availeth much…who is more righteous than someone perfectly in union with Christ in Heaven?
** I can relate to your line of reasoning, it makes sense. There are a few statements in scripture and events as well having to do with perceptions of certain dead individuals having interactions with living people. There are some scriptures that point to the conclusion that there is no interacting between the dead and the living. I’m thinking in terms of what can be implied from the saying, for instance
I don’t understand what you mean. Are you saying I can’t pray for you? Your post earlier you stated only you can lift your prayers up.
Of course you can pray for me and we can pray together for others or a situation to change. We are consciously aware of one another and are affected by other’s experience. We relate to our experience in common as it stands, to formally relate over prayer or another activity is a natural extension. The dead may or may not be in that loop, if they are I know of no scriptural basis. You do have the interaction between Abraham and the Rich Man where the rich man had a desire for his brothers to know where he was and his not wanting them to fall into the pit. …"T29 But Abraham said, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.’ 30 And he said, ‘No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’ 31 He said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be convinced if someone should rise from the dead.’”…
Yahweh was hearing prayers before Yeshua came. What difference a human being would make in the economy of Yahweh is mystifying in my thought. It is a challenge to reasoning to focus on Mary or any other individual as an agent giving precedence to your prayer when prayer was ancient and well established before they were born. You can’t step into something that preceded your existence and claim to be crucial to that process. The process of prayer didn’t need Mary to become efficacious, Mary needed prayer just like anyone els. I realize there is the notion of her being sinless, that’s a call out of men’s minds not from Yahweh’s word.Technically, God doesn’t even need to permit or grant omnianything to the saints. Mary could simply pray, “Lord, hear the prayers of all those asking for my intercession.”
On to the next non-starter…
Where did I say she was crucial? I’m just responding to the erroneous assumption that a saint would by necessity have to posses omnisomething. The other stuff is just irrelevant and tired bilgewater.
It may well be mystifying, but God’s will is in now way determined by your understanding or not. It just is.
Need? No.
… according to YOU.
So,what you are saying is that Revelations is only talking about the Saints having an active part of prayer during “the end times” or something?