On Cursing in fiction

[Baelor]

We do not decide, on our own initiative, what words are immoral.

Individuals do decide; that is what makes them bad at all. One could argue that a collection of individuals does, i.e. society, in which case my friends and I may use bad words without sinning since that is simply how we speak.

If “we” do not decide, who does? Our four-letters words were invented, not discovered. They are constructs, and constructs can change.

The same words I was told not to repeat in the 1960s are still the same words I should not repeat today, and such was the case with all those people I grew up with.

You and your friends are not everyone.

Who died and put him in charge?

Who put you in charge?

 

[ThePuppyTurtle]

We do not decide, on our own initiative, what words are immoral. The same words I was told not to repeat in the 1960s are still the same words I should not repeat today, and such was the case with all those people I grew up with. In fact, so-called comedian/propagandist, Louis Black, did just such a thing. Based on nothing more than his own authority, he told his audience: “There’s no such thing as bad language.” Who died and put him in charge?

"Raca: vain, empty, worthless, only found in Matthew 5:22. The Jews used it as a word of contempt. It is derived from a root meaning “to spit.”

Bad words are still bad words. Nothing is poised to do anything in this case.

Peace,
Ed

Answer my question, What about them is disordered?

And defining a word does not make it not a curse word.

 

[edwest2]

From the Catholic Writers Guild

"What we evaluate:

Is the work libelous or slanderous?
Does the work seek to foster hatred or conflict among individuals or groups, including racism, religious fanaticism, or anarchy?
Does this work contain obscenity or promote anti-Catholic views of modesty, decency in language, actions, or basic morality?
Does this work contain pornography?
Does this work promote pre-marital, extra-marital, or other non-marital sexual relationships?
Does this work lack respect for the reasonable privacy of others?
Does this work degrade the dignity of the person, including the promotion of euthanasia, abortion, homosexual actions or unions, child labor, or prostitution?
Does this work promote the worship of false gods?
Does this work attempt to draw others away from the orthodox teachings of the universal Catholic Church?
Does this work use others’ proposals or ideas without credit or permission?
Does this work present others’ work as the author’s own original ideas?
Does this work violate any known laws?
Does the author of this work belong to an association(s) or participate in activities that may compromise integrity, damage credibility, or cause scandal in the Guild’s sole determination that you are aware of? Examples include freemasonry, Catholics for a Free Choice, NAMBLA, a history of works opposed to the Guild’s values or ethics, excommunication, etc. For example, these may be stated on the book jacket or may be from your prior knowledge of the author.
Is this work so badly written or edited that granting the Seal of Approval would harm the reputation of the Catholic Writers Guild as a writers organization?
Can you see this book in your local Catholic bookstore?

We have a “theological experts team” that is on-hand to answer any issues we have with doctrinal issues."

Peace,
Ed

 

[Baelor]

Is the work libelous or slanderous?
Does the work seek to foster hatred or conflict among individuals or groups, including racism, religious fanaticism, or anarchy?
Does this work contain obscenity or promote anti-Catholic views of modesty, decency in language, actions, or basic morality?
Does this work promote pre-marital, extra-marital, or other non-marital sexual relationships?
Does this work degrade the dignity of the person, including the promotion of euthanasia, abortion, homosexual actions or unions, child labor, or prostitution?
Does this work promote the worship of false gods?
Does this work attempt to draw others away from the orthodox teachings of the universal Catholic Church?

How does not determine whether a work promotes/seeks to do any of those things? Given a text, what would make you willing to bet the life of your child that the answer to at least one of those questions is yes?

 

[PapaBennyFan]

Two camps have been set up here:

1. Nothing one writes about may have swearing.
2. Swearing in books is different than swearing in real life.

Time to examine.

1. Let’s assume we agree with this statement. Ipso facto, then, no piece of literature may present any sins. Characters may not get angry (against the 5th Commandment), or steal (7th), or lie (8th), or be a non-Catholic (1st), or miss Mass (3rd). In opposition, one might say, “But then the characters will not be realistic!” These nay-sayers will then proceed to be inundated with laments about the culture, or reminisces of the past, “golden age” of the first statement’s holder’s own childhood. The point of writing is not, I repeat, not to present a perfect world. Nor is it to stand as a parable for our own lives. One cannot put a blanket statement on what writing is. Every author is unique, and has his own reasons for writing. Many recent books are iconic of our culture, our heritage, and human nature and progression. Writing is an art, and just as a painting or sculpture should be a faithful rendering of the model, so should writing. If you don’t want to write swearing into your novels/books, then don’t, by all means. Write for whatever purpose you feel you should.

By all accounts, however, the argument falls apart.

1. Should authors be held accountable for what they put in print? Yes. If an author writes something which offends someone, and is brought to court, I doubt a sincere, “Well, it’s actually my character who did that, so you should sue him.” would hold up. That said, a character in a book swearing does not necessarily mean the author swears. But, come on, this kinda (meaning really, truly, almost outrightly) implies that the author is at least okay with hearing it. Is it different? I tend to think not. Reading a sex scene would be considered sinful, although slightly less than actually acting out those scenes. So would reading swear words be sinful?

It comes down to this question. Is swearing sinful?

-PapaBennyFan

 

[VeritasLuxMea]

Explain to me why a work of fiction shouldn’t have a “bad word” but murder, theft, adultery can be depicted? That makes no sense to me.

 

[VeritasLuxMea]

1. Should authors be held accountable for what they put in print? Yes. If an author writes something which offends someone, and is brought to court, I doubt a sincere, “Well, it’s actually my character who did that, so you should sue him.” would hold up. That said, a character in a book swearing does not necessarily mean the author swears. But, come on, this kinda (meaning really, truly, almost outrightly) implies that the author is at least okay with hearing it. Is it different? I tend to think not.

I don’t understand this. Does that mean that Shakespeare was “at least okay” with thinking about murder?

Let’s say I’m writing fiction about a plantation in Savannah in 1843. How am I going to do that without the “n” word?

 

[PapaBennyFan]

I wasn’t very clear. My apologies.

I think one should be able to depict swearing in writing. Along with any other sin.

That said, if one depicts a sex scene, it would be considered a sin in my reasoning for the author. Could the same be said of swearing? Could swearing in books be sinful?

 

[PapaBennyFan]

My point is exactly yours. What probably confused you was that I took their position to how them the illogic of it. It makes no sense to not swear, but commit other sins in writing.

 

[VeritasLuxMea]

My point is exactly yours. What probably confused you was that I took their position to how them the illogic of it. It makes no sense to not swear, but commit other sins in writing.

Oh OK, I’m sorry that it confused me. Yes, I agree with you. I don’t think it’s a sin per se to depict sin and it often has many benefits. The most common of which is the repudiation of sin, as the hero defeats the villain.

However, I think even the depiction of unpunished sin is not so bad. That’s how it can be in the real world. There is indeed human suffering and injustice. Sometimes, no earthly justice is brought to bear on evil. I do not despair… if anything, it’s the opposite - it’s a call to action.