I don’t think this is the case. I haven’t seen anyone object to the divorced/remarried receiving communion provided they have determined to live as brother and sister. It is the suggestion that they (some?) can continue having sexual relations and also receive communion that has generated all of the opposition.The point has been made that some do want want divorced and remarried Catholics who have not obtained an annulment to receive communion as the Church provides.
An “annulment”, if by that we mean the fact that a certain marriage was declared to be invalid, is not occult. Yes, not many people know about it but it is, in/by law, a public fact. Similarly, a wedding/marriage, whether in the Church or before the civil authority, is “de iure” public, even if nobody in a given community personally knows that it happened.…The document mentions that those choosing to live as brother and sister do so privately, where as the marriage is open. Now if this means they should receive privately, then why aren’t people also receiving privately after the annulment? Last I heard, those aren’t exactly printed in the local paper. Annulments are also occult, at least as far as pretty much everyone except the priest is concerned. …
Thus this modifying phrase, " as far as pretty much everyone except the priest is concerned." Scandal is based on perception. One cannot be somehow objectively scandalized and never know it. What is known, and what is not, is critical. Again, I notice no diocese has been listed where the bishop requires private communion only for these situations. I have found two that do not. I am really curious if any bishop takes this interpretation in their administering of the Sacraments.An “annulment”, if by that we mean the fact that a certain marriage was declared to be invalid, is not occult.
I only meant to make a proper distinction between “occult” and “public” in legal systems. The concepts are important in understanding the “objective” nature of a marriage that is not recognized by the Church. The problem of leading others into error/sin is a separate one.Thus this modifying phrase, " as far as pretty much everyone except the priest is concerned." Scandal is based on perception. One cannot be somehow objectively scandalized and never know it.
Exactly! I have never seen anyone, at least on CAF, object to the giving of Communion to the divorced/remarried under the conditions the Church provides. The wariness is directed at ideas, such as those advanced in Germany, that this be expanded to include those couples who will not commit to continence or whose public reception of Communion will give scandal.I don’t think this is the case. I haven’t seen anyone object to the divorced/remarried receiving communion provided they have determined to live as brother and sister. It is the suggestion that they (some?) can continue having sexual relations and also receive communion that has generated all of the opposition.
Ender
I understand the wariness, because of the possibility of abuse and misunderstanding, but I could see an expansion to those who are remarried, but are not actually in a state of mortal sin. We already have the annulment process that covers some of this.The wariness is directed at ideas, such as those advanced in Germany, that this be expanded to include those couples who will not commit to continence or whose public reception of Communion will give scandal.
If they are not willing to commit to continence, what keeps them from a state of mortal sin?I understand the wariness, because of the possibility of abuse and misunderstanding, but I could see an expansion to those who are remarried, but are not actually in a state of mortal sin. We already have the annulment process that covers some of this.
They objectively are in the state of mortal sin. However, marriage performed in other faiths, may have been in accordance to the teaching of that faith, and thus there was no actual sin in the one followed his conscience, as well as the teaching of his Christian faith.If they are not willing to commit to continence, what keeps them from a state of mortal sin?
To the bolded: anyone who is living as man and wife in an invalid marriage is treated as being in a “state.” This includes Catholics who married in other faith traditions without dispensation and Catholics who marry civilly even if it was a first marriage.They objectively are in the state of mortal sin. However, marriage performed in other faiths, may have been in accordance to the teaching of that faith, and thus there was no actual sin in the one followed his conscience, as well as the teaching of his Christian faith.
**Also, as I noted before, re-marriage is the only sin that is treated as a “state”.
**
I would further add that they may not be objectively in a state of sin if their first marriage is annulled, and the current one not. That would mean that the current marriage is always the only marriage.
I understand. My point is that we do not have state of murder, theft, lying or blasphemy. I know Catholics are bound by the Catholic law of marriage. Those Catholic at least that are currently practicing, or aware of this, are morally culpable. I do not think I can speculate on the moral culpability of those who fell away, perhaps as children, but were baptized Catholics, especially those who then went into other faiths.To the bolded: anyone who is living as man and wife in an invalid marriage is treated as being in a “state.” This includes Catholics who married in other faith traditions without dispensation and Catholics who marry civilly even if it was a first marriage.
Hello,I have cited two sources that state communion for the divorced/remarried must be done in a way that does not cause scandal. You claim this doesn’t mean it must be private. Given this assertion from Cdl. Ratzinger…*if these people were admitted to the Eucharist, the faithful would be led into error and confusion regarding the Church’s teaching about the indissolubility of marriage".
*…explain how these people can receive other than privately without giving scandal.
Ender
The document that was advice to confessors said they should receive Communion at a parish where their irregular state of marriage was not known. That’s one practical application.Hello,
What, in practical terms, do you mean by “private”?
Dan
Yes. The concern is about the scandal that accompanies the reception of communion by those known to be in irregular unions. If there can be no scandal then I assume the obligation to receive “privately” is met.The document that was advice to confessors said they should receive Communion at a parish where their irregular state of marriage was not known. That’s one practical application.
Thanks. The use of “privately” can bring to mind images of going to the rectory at some odd hour and receiving Communion from the priest with nobody else around. I didn’t think you meant that but wanted to be sure.Yes. The concern is about the scandal that accompanies the reception of communion by those known to be in irregular unions. If there can be no scandal then I assume the obligation to receive “privately” is met.
Ender
The possibility is being raised for theological examination, that if we pan back from the current concept that defines valid and invalid, and consider the question, is a Catholic without faith considered a Catholic as far as the first marriage is concerned. The sacraments presuppose faith.To the bolded: anyone who is living as man and wife in an invalid marriage is treated as being in a “state.” This includes Catholics who married in other faith traditions without dispensation and Catholics who marry civilly even if it was a first marriage.
As an FYI, Faith (along with Hope and Love) is infused at Baptism. That is one of the effects of the Sacrament.Even baptism does not in and of itself guarantee salvation. It has to be engaged with faith before death in order to merit heaven…
.CCC1813 The theological virtues are the foundation of Christian moral activity; they animate it and give it its special character. They inform and give life to all the moral virtues. They are infused by God into the souls of the faithful to make them capable of acting as his children and of meriting eternal life. They are the pledge of the presence and action of the Holy Spirit in the faculties of the human being. There are three theological virtues: faith, hope, and charity
ewtn.com/vexperts/showmessage.asp?number=445575The supernatural virtues, theological and moral, are infused, first at Baptism, restored by Penance, and increased by the other sacraments (providing we merit their increase).