On eve of Pope Francis visit to Poland, country refuses the red-carpet treatment

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The source of this article is Gazeta Wyborcza, the far left-wing anti-clerical and anti-church paper in Poland. Interesting that Fox would choose this paper as a source of information.

Since the left of center PO party lost their grip on power in Poland in last year’s election, that party and its media outlets (GW) have been conducting a global campaign to undermine the current government. This article is yet another front for that anti-church and anti-government action.
 
Interesting point. I notice none of the comments actually come from elected representatives of Poland’s government, so we’ll probably just have to observe to see how he’s treated.
 
Politicians are playing politics? Who’d have thunk it? Quick, stop the presses! :rolleyes:
 
Given Pope Francis’s known aversions to pomp I would think he would welcome not receiving the “red carpet” treatment. Just sayin’. 😉
 
Ontheway said:
The source of this article is Gazeta Wyborcza, the far left-wing anti-clerical and anti-church paper in Poland. Interesting that Fox would choose this paper as a source of information.

Since the left of center PO party lost their grip on power in Poland in last year’s election, that party and its media outlets (GW) have been conducting a global campaign to undermine the current government. This article is yet another front for that anti-church and anti-government action.
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This might be part of the problem as well:

wsj.com/articles/pope-francis-faces-resistance-on-coming-trip-to-poland-1469481178

On Saturday, the Vatican issued an unusual press release about Polish attitudes toward refugees, lamenting that “fears are fed by some political parties and by inappropriate statements by politicians,” and denouncing an “artificially created fear of Muslims.” But the next day, that language was missing from a revised version of the statement on the Vatican website.
 
There have been several articles today about this topic from numerous sources:

washingtonpost.com/world/europe/pope-to-find-a-catholic-poland-out-of-step-with-his-vision/2016/07/26/1296418c-5349-11e6-b652-315ae5d4d4dd_story.html

yahoo.com/news/pope-francis-faces-tepid-welcome-migrant-wary-poland-054049770.html

yahoo.com/news/first-trip-poland-pope-francis-divided-church-011242361.html

Most Vatican-watchers have been talking about how the Church in Poland hasn’t exactly been the most supportive of Francis’ agenda for various reasons. One prevailing theory is that Francis is seen as too sympathetic to socialism and the Polish people aren’t thrilled with that having lived under a Communist government within living memory (and yes I know that Pope Francis has spoken out against Communism in the past).
 
As I have mentioned elsewhere, the statement came from a Polish priest who is associated with the Polish bishop’s conference, but who made a personal statement, although he failed to clarify that he was speaking not on behalf of anyone other that himself. A bit of manipulation on his part, which was soon recognized.

Having said all this, it seems that the church in Poland is undergoing a generational change, and some of the most conservative older churchmen are resisting the pressure for change coming from the ranks. The hierarchy is a bit authoritarian, hence the young priests are becoming a bit “unruly”.
 
tseleehw said:
There have been several articles today about this topic from numerous sources:

washingtonpost.com/world/europe/pope-to-find-a-catholic-poland-out-of-step-with-his-vision/2016/07/26/1296418c-5349-11e6-b652-315ae5d4d4dd_story.html

yahoo.com/news/pope-francis-faces-tepid-welcome-migrant-wary-poland-054049770.html

yahoo.com/news/first-trip-poland-pope-francis-divided-church-011242361.html

Most Vatican-watchers have been talking about how the Church in Poland hasn’t exactly been the most supportive of Francis’ agenda for various reasons. One prevailing theory is that Francis is seen as too sympathetic to socialism and the Polish people aren’t thrilled with that having lived under a Communist government within living memory (and yes I know that Pope Francis has spoken out against Communism in the past).
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At the risk of boring everyone to death, there is more politics involved here as well. The global war against the Polish church and current government continues. Anne Appelbaum, of the Washington Post is the wife of Radek Sikorski a prominent member of the previous Polish government. (voted out of office) The Post continually writes very negative articles about the current situation in Poland. (coincidentally)

One of the yahoo articles above cites a Mr. Dutkiewicz (sic) [Actully Dudkiewicz] who describes himself as a philosophy student who publishes occasionally. Hardly an authority on anything.

Consider the sources and the political background, as you read countless articles criticizing the Polish church while the pope is there.
 
Ontheway said:
At the risk of boring everyone to death, there is more politics involved here as well. The global war against the Polish church and current government continues. Anne Appelbaum, of the Washington Post is the wife of Radek Sikorski a prominent member of the previous Polish government. (voted out of office) The Post continually writes very negative articles about the current situation in Poland. (coincidentally)

One of the yahoo articles above cites a Mr. Dutkiewicz (sic) [Actully Dudkiewicz] who describes himself as a philosophy student who publishes occasionally. Hardly an authority on anything.

Consider the sources and the political background, as you read countless articles criticizing the Polish church while the pope is there.
Click to expand...
Yes, you are certainly correct about this. The Church in Poland has been in the news recently due to the possibility of a stricter abortion ban being passed at the urging of the bishops there (which IMO, is perfectly in line with the Church’s mission) but the media plays it up like Pope Francis will disapprove of their meddling with the secular government. The Pope will certainly bring up the refugee situation, probably immediately when he arrives there. It will be interesting if he makes a reference to the abortion ban in any way, as well, given that it is currently a hot topic there.
 
BTW. This is what the media will never report, but the Polish bishops have just announced their support for immigration. This is contrary to the current narrative, so you will not read about it.
However, the Polish population is strongly against admitting muslims into Poland. There are about 2 million Polish citizens living and working in England, Germany, Belgium and the rest of Europe. They have experienced the western brand of multi-culturalism first hand, and their response to it is a resounding NO.
 
Francis just walked the red carpet in Krakow and and speaking at Wawel Castle.
 
Ontheway said:
The source of this article is Gazeta Wyborcza, the far left-wing anti-clerical and anti-church paper in Poland. Interesting that Fox would choose this paper as a source of information.

Since the left of center PO party lost their grip on power in Poland in last year’s election, that party and its media outlets (GW) have been conducting a global campaign to undermine the current government. This article is yet another front for that anti-church and anti-government action.
Click to expand...
The other source is Newsweek, which is even worse. It’s a hateful tabloid attacking the Church and the government and whomever else the owner, Tomasz Lis, a displaced journalism pundit and recipient of the Hyena of the Year Award (Polish negative award for huge perceived violations of journalistic ethics), does not like.

A literal red carpet certainly was extended for the Pope, and the reception was cordial.

GW and other liberal/left-leaning media are trying to divide the Church between Francis vs ‘Polish sect’, where the main points of criticism are fidelity to established doctrine and only secondary points are the kind of failures that really could make Polish hierarchs seem as falling short of Francis’s emphasis on a poor Church for the poor and pastors that smell of the sheep.

GW and Newsweeks goal is to promote in vitro and LGBT issues and EU/German policies.
Ontheway said:
BTW. This is what the media will never report, but the Polish bishops have just announced their support for immigration. This is contrary to the current narrative, so you will not read about it.
However, the Polish population is strongly against admitting muslims into Poland. There are about 2 million Polish citizens living and working in England, Germany, Belgium and the rest of Europe. They have experienced the western brand of multi-culturalism first hand, and their response to it is a resounding NO.
Click to expand...
Confirmed as a Pole who actually lives here but has travelled a lot over the last dozen or so years. We are first of all disenchanted with the EU’s leftist, liberal (in the moral/social but not economic sense) policies, political correctness, doublespeak, lack of character, and emasculation. I say ‘we’, but about 40% of the nation sympathize with those people anyway and throw up manifestations all the time to express their sympathies. So who knows. Even so, nation-wide we’re still different from what the West has become.
 
There was a time when Catholic countries wouldn’t let you build a single mosque in their countries, and this was encouraged by the Popes and Bishops, now the Bishops are demanding such countries unequivocally open their borders to people who will fundamentally change the religious and cultural landscape of the country?
 
Poland has an authoritarian government. They do not see eye to eye with the merciful Pope Francis. Poland is acting somewhat like Francoist Spain or Vichy France.
 
anon67074017 said:
Poland has an authoritarian government. They do not see eye to eye with the merciful Pope Francis. Poland is acting somewhat like Francoist Spain or Vichy France.
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Please don’t confabulate. Show us the facts to support your comparison. Starting from political prisoners. Can you? I didn’t think so. Freedom of speech is one thing, but if you’re going to throw weighty accusations around, you should at least take a reality check first.

Governments don’t become authoritarian simply by having a right-wing outlook or disagreeing with the reigning Pope on one or two out of many issues, or being disliked by the opposition (or by Washington Post on the other side of the pond).
 
anon67074017 said:
Poland has an authoritarian government. They do not see eye to eye with the merciful Pope Francis. Poland is acting somewhat like Francoist Spain or Vichy France.
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Well let’s see, on the one hand we have a Conservative, ant-Socialist, pro-Catholic Poland and a then Conservative, anti-Socialist, pro-Catholic Spain under Franco, both at times drenched in Catholic blood (especially clergy) by Islamist or Socialist barbarians. And Vichy France was primarily pro-Catholic and anti-Communist–it was never Nazi. Add pro-Catholic Hungry and maybe a few others to this first group.

On the other hand, we have a second group of governments that are Communist, Socialist, Crony-Capitalist, Islamist, European-Socialist and whatever mongrel government the U.S. has become; none of which are pro-Catholic, anti-Socialist governments. Half of the U.S. population, in fact, with the help of pretend Catholics, is shamefully trying to elect an anti-Catholic, pro-Socialist president, who, in turn, will choose an anti-Catholic, pro-Socialist court which will turn the U.S. into Europe.

Your distaste for the “authoritarian”, anti-Socialist, pro-Catholic group makes one wonder which type of anti-Catholic government among the second group you think “merciful” Pope Francis would prefer people to live under. It’s a very wide spectrum of choices in the second group. E.G.,at one end some of those governments would kill or otherwise prosecute gays; and at the other end some would prosecute those who ,even from the pulpit, spoke out against the gay lifestyle (e.g., O Canada). Some governments swim openly in moral filth, and some will execute you for it.

I have no doubt Francis would disagree with you and choose a government from the first group, precisely because he is merciful.
 
chevalier said:
Please don’t confabulate. Show us the facts to support your comparison. Starting from political prisoners. Can you? I didn’t think so. Freedom of speech is one thing, but if you’re going to throw weighty accusations around, you should at least take a reality check first.

Governments don’t become authoritarian simply by having a right-wing outlook or disagreeing with the reigning Pope on one or two out of many issues, or being disliked by the opposition (or by Washington Post on the other side of the pond).
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Here is my main source about the Polish government having fascist qualities:telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/poland/1522202/Ghetto-survivor-warns-of-Polish-fascism.html The person that made this statement survived the Nazi occupation of Poland and the Warsaw Ghetto. They know what fascism looks like.
 
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