On limiting population growth thru contraception

[Warrior1979]

No they are not. Did you look at where they explain the science behind it?

I’m more familiar with this than you care to know.

 

[buffalo]

The takeaways from the Demographic Winter are thus:

1. No civilization has recovered from 1.3 and many countries are 1.3 and below
2. The Muslims have an average of 8 children.

America is at 1.8 before you add the Hispanic immigration, then it is 2.1.

See the issues?

Next, one should start looking at the effects of the killing of the unborn on world economics. Effects on America

 

[Warrior1979]

The takeaways from the Demographic Winter are thus:

1. No civilization has recovered from 1.3 and many countries are 1.3 and below
2. The Muslims have an average of 8 children.

America is at 1.8 before you add the Hispanic immigration, then it is 2.1.

See the issues?

Sure do…“They” might have more than “us,” and that can’t happen, so we have to take care of it. Correct?

What exactly is “recover.” Ireland has had an overall negative population growth over the past 150 years, and still exist.

Lastly, it’s not going to be fun for those Muslims countries once they run out of oil. Their population levels can only be sustained from that resource. Once that disappears, a significant number of those countries are going to have a large population with limited food and water resources, and diminishing ability to buy those resources elsewhere.

 

[buffalo]

Sure do…“They” might have more than “us,” and that can’t happen, so we have to take care of it. Correct?

What exactly is “recover.” Ireland has had an overall negative population growth over the past 150 years, and still exist.

Lastly, it’s not going to be fun for those Muslims countries once they run out of oil. Their population levels can only be sustained from that resource. Once that disappears, a significant number of those countries are going to have a large population with limited food and water resources, and diminishing ability to buy those resources elsewhere.

As far as America goes, I want it to remain true to its Judeo-Christian roots and I vote.

 

[manualman]

…I tried looking for stats for it, but couldn’t find a good site. Anyways, I know that deforestation is a serious issue. Basically a whole lot of the world’s ecosystems have been destroyed by 70%-90% in a lot of areas. Statistically, I was looking for basically how many millions of acres of trees we’ve lost in the United States since the time of the Indians to present day. It’s definitely over 50%.
…

Please do keep investigating that. What you’ll find (alas I’m citing a college prof from years ago, so no link) is that the Indians historically used set fires to help herd hunting buffalo, which had a LOT to do with how much nearly treeless prairie land we have in America. While we’ve cut down a lot of forest, we actually have more wooded land today than we did in 1776. Take a drive through rural Illinois some time. That was once endless prairie with nary a tree. Today every farm field has treed fence rows and small and large pockets of woods are EVERYWHERE.

People believe this fallacy that only modern, Americanized humans alter the landscape. But the native Americans manipulated the land to an impressive degree, considering their lack of excavators, scrapers and dozers. What we think of as “natural prairie” would have never existed without their activity.

 

[buffalo]

Please do keep investigating that. What you’ll find (alas I’m citing a college prof from years ago, so no link) is that the Indians historically used set fires to help herd hunting buffalo, which had a LOT to do with how much nearly treeless prairie land we have in America. While we’ve cut down a lot of forest, we actually have more wooded land today than we did in 1776. Take a drive through rural Illinois some time. That was once endless prairie with nary a tree. Today every farm field has treed fence rows and small and large pockets of woods are EVERYWHERE.

People believe this fallacy that only modern, Americanized humans alter the landscape. But the native Americans manipulated the land to an impressive degree, considering their lack of excavators, scrapers and dozers. What we think of as “natural prairie” would have never existed without their activity.

And the South Eastern forest is now being harvested again.

 

[Nate13]

I didn’t even click the link…is this another one of those no-support, personal-opinion cartoons?

There is a lot of food out there, of course…and a lot of nonrenewable resources to support that level of food production.

Wait, do you consider poo to be a nonrenewable resource? Just checking I’m with you though as far as worrying about population. Muslims having 4 times as many children as us means nothing. This isn’t the time period of World War I and strength in numbers means very little…just ask the 12 apostles

 

[manualman]

And the South Eastern forest is now being harvested again.

According to much improved sustainable forestry standards in which millions of pounds of CO2 are removed from the atmosphere and converted into wood in fast growing young forests.

My point is that people make a major blunder in assuming that Europeans came to a continent barely touched by human hands. What actually happened is the European colonists came to a continent MAJORLY shaped and managed by a culture very different from theirs and which had recently been decimated by disease (most likely from the earliest Euro explorers).

 

[mark_a]

I’m more familiar with this than you care to know.

Please share what you know. None of us want to be ignorant.

 

[Warrior1979]

Wait, do you consider poo to be a nonrenewable resource?

Thanks for asking.

In fact, I have a big pile of horse manure that keeps getting bigger. Want some?

It is renewable, but it is no substitute for oil.

 

[Lucky102]

It’s good to face reality as the video shows: http://www.demographicwinter.com"
“Demographic winter” denotes the worldwide decline in birthrates, also referred to as a “birth-dearth,” and what it portends.

Demographer Philip Longman (author of The Empty Cradle: How Falling Birthrates Threaten World Prosperity) observes: “The ongoing global decline in human birthrates is the single most powerful force affecting the fate of nations and the future of society in the 21st century.” Worldwide, birthrates have been halved in the past 50 years. There are now 59 nations, with 44% of the world’s population, with below-replacement fertility.

“Sometime in this century, the world’s population will begin to decline. At a certain point, the decline will become rapid. We may even reach population free-fall in our lifetimes. For some countries, population decline is already a reality. Russia is losing three-quarters-of-a-million people a year. Its population (currently 145 million) is expected to fall by one-third by 2050.”

Contraception is a solution to nothing and degrades humanity.

Europe’s Demographic Winter threatening the U.S.A.
Having Children: Anatomy of a Cultural Strategy“
…for the first time, the birth rate in the United States has fallen below the replacement level. All of this is finally generating a buzz. If you’re a young Catholic looking for an effective long-term strategy to reclaim Western culture, having a large family should be on your short list.”
See: catholicculture.org/commentary/articles.cfm?id=444

 

[LaSainte]

Honestly, I think that one day, the Church will allow the use of contraception for population control. When the population gets to be 100 billion and disease and famine are spreading like wildfire and it is completely unsustainable, it will be the only thing to do unless we want the world to end. Eventually, it will get to that point.

 

[buffalo]

Honestly, I think that one day, the Church will allow the use of contraception for population control. When the population gets to be 100 billion and disease and famine are spreading like wildfire and it is completely unsustainable, it will be the only thing to do unless we want the world to end. Eventually, it will get to that point.

I do not believe it. God will provide.

 

[onmyknees]

People who think the earth is running out of space are the equivalent of those who think the moon is made of cheese or that Elvis is alive!

 

[Abu]

LaSainte, post #33
I think that one day, the Church will allow the use of contraception for population control. When the population gets to be 100 billion and disease and famine are spreading like wildfire and it is completely unsustainable,

Facing Reality

1. Christ’s Church possesses the infallibility in dogma and doctrine conferred by the Son of God and contraception is condemned as infallible doctrine. She has never changed, and can never change, an infallible doctrine.
2. See post #19 on facing the reality of the demographic winter – in this century, the world’s population will begin to decline. There are now 59 nations, with 44% of the world’s population, with below-replacement fertility.
3. With wise governments and the right education most nations could be virtually self-sufficient in food production. We have the great advances of great men like American Norman Borlaug who actually lived among people in Asia and Africa and showed them how to benefit from his genetically modified green revolution. Dr. Borlaug, who died September, 2009, is scarcely known in his own country. Borlaug was one of only six people to have won the Nobel Peace Prize, the Presidential Medal of Freedom and the Congressional Gold Medal.[3] He was also a recipient of the Padma Vibhushan, India’s second highest civilian honor.

 

[Warrior1979]

Honestly, I think that one day, the Church will allow the use of contraception for population control. When the population gets to be 100 billion and disease and famine are spreading like wildfire and it is completely unsustainable, it will be the only thing to do unless we want the world to end. Eventually, it will get to that point.

I personally don’t believe this will ever happen. It would have little effect anyway, since the reality is that most Catholics ignore the Church on this matter as it is.

 

[Warrior1979]

1. See post #19 on facing the reality of the demographic winter – in this century, the world’s population will begin to decline. There are now 59 nations, with 44% of the world’s population, with below-replacement fertility.

Interestingly enough, most people ignore the possibility that this could be the natural order of things.

1. With wise governments and the right education most nations could be virtually self-sufficient in food production.

Being wise isn’t enough. Physical laws have to be adhered to.

There are a lot of nations that will eventually have massive starvation, starting with the oil-rich, desert nations. Their population explosions have been the result of energy resources, and their food production will decline right back to where it was before oil was discovered, with a much larger population. In fact, it wouldn’t surprise me in the least if the Saudis are “friends” with the U.S. because they we need us in the future for food resources.

We have the great advances of great men like American Norman Borlaug who actually lived among people in Asia and Africa and showed them how to benefit from his genetically modified green revolution.

Interesting how we can’t tamper with anything having to do with sex, yet genetic . tampering with our environment is A-OK. All things come with consequences.

That said, tampering with that which God provided could possibly increase production, but as always natural laws are still in place (i.e., entropy). Faster growth means greater energy (name removed by moderator)uts (i.e., faster use of fossil fuels, either directly or indirectly), faster use of water resources, and the possibility of faster erosion.

 

[LaSainte]

Facing Reality

1. Christ’s Church possesses the infallibility in dogma and doctrine conferred by the Son of God and contraception is condemned as infallible doctrine. She has never changed, and can never change, an infallible doctrine.
2. See post #19 on facing the reality of the demographic winter – in this century, the world’s population will begin to decline. There are now 59 nations, with 44% of the world’s population, with below-replacement fertility.
3. With wise governments and the right education most nations could be virtually self-sufficient in food production. We have the great advances of great men like American Norman Borlaug who actually lived among people in Asia and Africa and showed them how to benefit from his genetically modified green revolution. Dr. Borlaug, who died September, 2009, is scarcely known in his own country. Borlaug was one of only six people to have won the Nobel Peace Prize, the Presidential Medal of Freedom and the Congressional Gold Medal.[3] He was also a recipient of the Padma Vibhushan, India’s second highest civilian honor.

I don’t believe the doctrine on contraception to be infallible, and many theologians feel the same way.

 

[Warrior1979]

I don’t believe the doctrine on contraception to be infallible, and many theologians feel the same way.

I’m in the not-so-sure category. “Infallible” is a class by itself, and I am very leery when one places moral (not to be confused with matters of faith) issues in that category that doesn’t pertain directly to Christ (Resurrection, Virgin Birth, etc.) or never mentioned by Christ. I can see it being authoritative, but infallible pushes it beyond where my God-given faith can go.

 

[kama3]

When talkin about overpopulation, people commonly make two errors:

1. **There is alot of space, because all the world’s population could fit in Texas. ** Using population density seriously misrepresents the problem. The issue is not living space; people in Tokyo can live at the population density of 5’500 per square kilometer. The issue is how much land do you need to feed, clothe and otherwise support one person. You must account for land needed for wheat, cows and cotton; land used for mining; land used by industrial installations; land used for waste storage; land designated for exclusion zones because it has been irreversibly polluted. Once you do that, you suddenly realize that world’s population will not fit in Texas. But it gets worse. Yes, the land surface of the planet is 148 million square kilometers. But how much of it is usable? Would you rather buy a square kilometer of arable land in continental US or a square kilometer of tundra on Devon island?
2. **“The greatest shortcoming of the human race is our inability to understand the exponential function.” ** A population with initial size of 1 million, and a constant 1% growth rate will need 694 years to reach 1 billion. But going from 2 billion to 3 billion requires only 100 years. From 3 billion to 4 billion it’s 41 years. The 5th billion takes 29 years. The 6th only 22 years. Ultimately, it does not matter what the resource limit is, the exponential will hit it sooner or later. And you really do not want to hit the resource limit. Which is why we’ve had all these population control policies for the last half of century. They all aim to reduce the global population growth rate. (By the way, killing half of the population would not solve the problem; at high growth rate, it would replenish itself in a few years).

Except that there is another catch. In some countries, these policies have been too successful, resulting in negative population growth rate. This is not inherently bad; with a finite number of resources, less people means more resources per person. The problem is that the capitalist system, based on fractional reserve banking, requires economic growth to sustain itself. The reason is that because investments are financed with bank loans, and bank loans must be paid back with interest, then all investments in the economy combined must produce a profit, i.e. economy must grow. Now, this conflicts with population reduction policy, because it is extremely difficult (although not impossible) to have positive economic growth at negative population growth (i.e. decreasing number of workers).