On marital sex and marriage to a non catholic

[josh987654321]

It’s not as easy as people here want to make it seem. You can do it, but you will have to put a ton of energy, work, and sacrifice into it. For some it’s worth it. For me it wasn’t.

I understand, and I completely sympathize with you. I don’t know how I’ll go if I get married, I hope I will be able to abstain and avoid contraceptives with NFP if necessary (as other posters have mentioned they have successfully done). I believe the Church is spot on with her teachings on this, but I believe it’s difficult and I believe the sin varies depending on the circumstances and trials of each, I don’t think it’s a mortal sin for everyone who uses contraceptives, but I do believe it’s a sin regardless.

I hope this has helped

God Bless

Thank you for reading
Josh

 

[Hans_W]

How’d people do it before contraceptives were invented and before they knew about infertile periods during a woman’s cycle? and don’t people normally say the same thing when it comes to NFP too?
Josh

Look up infant mortality.
For most of human history 30-40% of babies didn’t make it to their first birthday.

 

[Rau]

…However, when you are Catholic and your church has rules for literally everything that cannot be negotiated, you need to adequately be prepared for that. It doesn’t make for an easy or stable marriage when you cannot compromise even a little with your spouse on so many things…

As you know from another thread, in respect of contraception, the Church “rules” bind the Catholic in the marriage, not a person of another faith. You (as the non-Catholic) may ‘contracept’, and your decision to do that does not (under any Church rule) restrict your husband from engaging in marital relations with you. If he refuses, that is his personal action - not attributable to the Church.

But your underlying observation is right. The non-Catholic should anticipate the Catholic will feel bound to:

• Attend Mass on Sunday and a handful of other days;
• Have the children raised Catholic;
• Reject Contraception (on their part);
• Reject certain forms of sexual expression (eg. masturbation, etc.)
• Reject IVF;
• Oppose / avoid support for same sex marriage.

There may be more items that are overt and which ‘confront’ their spouse, but I think it falls somewhat short of your expression “a rule for literally everything”.

 

[josh987654321]

Look up infant mortality.
For most of human history 30-40% of babies didn’t make it to their first birthday.

Okay, may I ask though, what the difference is between intentionally closing the sexual act to new life artificially (with contraceptives) and intentionally closing the sexual act to new life naturally (NFP) is?

The only conclusion I have come up with is that artificial contraception can be used whenever one wishes (permanently if they so choose) and naturally can only rarely be done. But I believe both ways intentionally close the sexual act to new life.

(If you would like me to start another thread on this issue I’m happy to do so, I don’t want to hijack this thread or anything nor lead anyone astray, this is just the conclusion I have reached so far with what I have learned).

I hope this has helped

God Bless

Thank you for reading
Josh

 

[Rau]

Okay, may I ask though, what the difference is between intentionally closing the sexual act to new life artificially (with contraceptives) and intentionally closing the sexual act to new life naturally (NFP) is?

What is wrong is the premise that NFP closes the act to new life. NFP has ZERO effect on the act (quite unlike the pill, condom, etc.)

It is fine to have sex during a time believed to be infertile - whether or not you know it’s infertile.

What is wrong is * to corrupt the act by interfering with the act to prevent its ordinary course (by eliminating its procreativity) .*

There are no rules related to the timing of sex.

There is a quite separate rule that says you should not unduly (ie. without good cause) defeat a key purpose of marriage by persistently and intentionally avoiding fertile sex. But that rule is not about contraception - it’s about the respecting the purpose of marriage.

PS: We are off-topic.

 

[Xantippe]

Yea. (not technically recommending it, just sayin’)

How’d people do it before contraceptives were invented and before they knew about infertile periods during a woman’s cycle? and don’t people normally say the same thing when it comes to NFP too?

I hope this has helped

God Bless

Thank you for reading
Josh

1. There’ve always been attempts at contraceptives. (Google “Onan” and Genesis.)
2. In the past, the mortality rate of infants and small children was huge. It took a long, long time (and lots of technological progress) for the population to grow. Have a look at the chart here of population growth:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_population

As you can see, until 1950, world population growth was pretty flat.

 

[sailor28]

My boyfriend and I are struggling to find common ground when it comes to contraception. We both agree to save sex till marriage but he believes that after marriage the use of condoms and other birth control methods are part of a responsible sex life if you are not ready for children (financial/time reasons). It is my understanding that this goes against my faith but would like to explain it more fully.

**How do you view this issue?
**

It is so good you are discussing this issue before marriage. It is definitely one you need to find agreement on before marriage.

Also what is your experiences with natural family planning?

Regardless of what you use for birth control you may get pregnant before you are ready to have kids. No one is actually ever ready to have kids…LOL. Still, I understand your concern. NFP for some couples is much less reliable than other methods of birth control.

Theologically/philosophically I don’t see contraception as intrinsically evil or morally different from NFP. Disclaimer: My believe is not consistent with the teachings of the church or the interpretations of that teaching found here on CAF. I have used NFP and continue to use FAM. My experience with NFP is that using it alone to avoid conception would be an enormous amount of abstinence, more than is healthy for my marriage. Currently, with NFP alone I have 5 to 7 days that are infertile. This varies greatly between couples based on the woman’s cycle and her age. We have endured enormous amounts of abstinence and survived. But overall I don’t think it is healthy for a marriage and would not continue down that road. It would be good to explore all methods of NFP (Creighton, Billings, Marquette, CCL). Creighton actually gave us less days of “infertility” than what we use now. You will find some methods more usable for you than others.

**Also those catholics married to noncatholics (my boyfriend is christian) how did those opposing views of faith affect your marriage? How did you raise children in faith? **

Although I am not in an interfaith marriage, I’ve seen interfaith marriages thrive. I’ve see devout Catholic marriages wind up in divorce. I don’t think this issue is black and white. If you read John Gottman’s research on marriage and the predictors for divorce, interfaith marriage is not one of them. I would strongly suggest you read his work and learn what the strongest predictors of divorce are. He also writes a lot about what makes marriages thrive.

Major problems seem to occur when one spouse veers off the original agreement or plan regarding faith. (ie ones becomes Catholic and is very rigid in their stance, like another poster here expressed)

You have an advantage discussing this issue before you are married. The way it works in the Catholic Church is the non-catholic spouse if the one that sacrifices their beliefs and lets the Catholic spouse raise the kids Catholic. Mass attendance is not optional so the non-catholic would be the one sacrificing if they were unable to attend 2 different churches and wanted the family to worship together. The Catholic faith essentially trumps the other faith.

I am not saying that I agree with this stance. But that is the perspective here on CAF and the orthodox Catholic perspective. Your boyfriend has a right to be fully informed of this before marriage.

 

[misspriss]

I am married to a non-Catholic. When we married, we were both non-practicing protestants. Then I went through RCIA and became Catholic. DH is still non-practicing (can’t remember which denomination he was raised, but it wasn’t Baptist like I was). He is fine with me raising our children Catholic, as he really doesn’t practice anything and has no opposition.

We use NFP, which is fine, we were using some form of NFP combined with withdrawal before I became Catholic, as I was opposed to hormonal birth control before and it was actually researching NFP that brought me to the Catholic church. I was researching the Lady Comp. Turns out not only Catholics use NFP, some non-practicing Protestants do to…

 

[slh3016]

My boyfriend and I are struggling to find common ground when it comes to contraception. We both agree to save sex till marriage but he believes that after marriage the use of condoms and other birth control methods are part of a responsible sex life if you are not ready for children (financial/time reasons). It is my understanding that this goes against my faith but would like to explain it more fully.

How do you view this issue?

Also what is your experiences with natural family planning?

I know little about natural family planning but i feel like the goal is the same as condoms except you may experience getting pregnant when you feel you are not ready for children.

Also those catholics married to noncatholics (my boyfriend is christian) how did those opposing views of faith affect your marriage? How did you raise children in faith?

We are currently at a position where our conflicting views on faith could cause us to break up but are deeply concerned at how in love we feel.

Thanks for all your (name removed by moderator)ut!!! God bless

Sweetie, I don’t want to burst your bubble, but that little part above that I bolded and highlighted is the least of your worries. “In love” feelings come and go…just ask any couple that’s been married for 50 years

Marriage is a life-long covenant. You need to think LONG and HARD about what you want you life to look like. How do you envision it? Do you imagine taking your entire family to Mass every Sunday? How will you spend holidays?

Seriously, I wish someone had given me the cold.hard.facts about married life before I got married. It’s hard enough when both people are on the same page spiritually and agree on their theology and moral issues, but I cannot imagine how hard it’ll be when you go into it know that you don’t agree, may never agree, and absolutely, do not assume he will ever change.

Is your boyfriend a practicing Christian at all? If so, he may find it enlightening that before the 1920’s ALL Christians were adamantly opposed to birth control.

Is your boyfriend open to learning more about the Catholic Church and WHY it teaches that marriage should be open to life?

Again, I would think long and hard before getting into a mixed-religion marriage. Several wise people have already told you this on this thread, one of which is coming from a non-Catholic whose marriage is suffering from their disagreement on NFP.

 

[PennyinCanada]

May I ask you a question? How did you find out about NFP? What kind of circumstances did it come up? I’m curious how this came about that you are asking about it.

When you are raising a family, there is nothing like dad kneeling and holding a rosary, standing in line to go to confession, prayerfully attending Mass and receiving Our Lord in the blessed sacrament. Moms are important, BUT the example of dad has a huge impact on the kids growing up. If you marry someone who does not believe that Jesus founded the Church, does not believe that you should tell a priest your sins, does not believe in the Blessed Sacrament, does not believe that the Blessed Mother is a powerful intercessor… I could go on…if you marry someone who does not believe in these things, he will undermine everything you are trying to instill in your children. What ever foundation you wish to build, it will crumble. Once the first child comes and your husband has a say about infant baptism, and where the baptism will happen, etc, you may be in for a battle, and disappointment, and hurt feelings.

Jesus established one church and one faith. He put a prime minister in place, the Pope to guide the Church in faith and morals throughout the centuries. We believe that Jesus gave us his very flesh and blood to eat, of which he said without it you cannot have life within you. Think about that. He gave us priests to hear our confessions and restore our friendship with God and to fill us with grace. When choosing a life partner, think LONG and Hard if you wish to have a partner that is outside of the practices that God gave us to be in his friendship. Life has so many struggles. It’s smart and pro-active to build on the Rock of Christ. God bless and guide you today.