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Profete
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Of course you are not ready, you want to defeat Russia here on Catholic Forum. lol
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AlNg
Guest
I favor the solution of separatism. It has worked for other countries, such as Czechoslovakia and Ireland for example.
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AlNg
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Is Northern Ireland at war with Ireland today?
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Ridgerunner
Guest
When 70% of the population of eastern Ukraine told Pew they wanted to remain part of Ukraine, what is the compelling reason for them to be forced to be part of Russia?
And if that happens, what part of Ukraine is next on Putin’s list of revanchist dreams?
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Ridgerunner
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What percentage of the population in those counties is actually Irish rather than “Scots-Irish” borderers by origin?
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AlNg
Guest
True, It is not perfect but at least there is no active war of shooting today between Northern Ireland and Ireland.
But take the case of Czechoslovakia, where there was peaceful division between Czechia and Slovakia. It is possible to have a peaceful division of a formerly united country? For another example, take the Partition of India into India and Pakistan.
But take the case of Czechoslovakia, where there was peaceful division between Czechia and Slovakia. It is possible to have a peaceful division of a formerly united country? For another example, take the Partition of India into India and Pakistan.
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AlNg
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But wait. That was the purpose of the division after all, wasn’t it? I am not aware of any active war between India and Pakistan now?
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Ridgerunner
Guest
I’m half Irish by ancestry, but I live in a sea of Scots-Irish in the Ozarks of southern Missouri. Notwithstanding my own ancestry, I have a high regard for the Scots-Irish and their culture here in America. They form a great swath of people stretching all the way from Southern Pennsylvania and western Virginia through the “upper south”, incorporating Ky, Tn, parts of Indiana and Ohio, most of Arkansas, most of Missouri, most of Oklahoma and most of the Texas “hill country”.
In a way, I have come to think they “needed” America, as their natural independent-mindedness and land hunger had room to exert itself in America. And America needed them. As was the case in the English/Scottish borderlands, as it was in Northern Ireland, their readiness to fight is reflected by their over-representation in the military today and their readiness to go to the frontiers in days past.
Despite a certain wariness of the Deep South, they distrust Yankees even more and generally vote with the Deep South in elections.
Maybe the answer in Ireland is for the Scots-Irish to all come to America. They would be more at home than perhaps they know.
One quick anecdote. Some years ago I read in the paper that Ian Paisley was going to preach in some tiny fundamentalist church in a small town near here. I couldn’t believe my eyes, so I called the preacher of that church and asked if it was the REAL Ian Paisley; the one who was an MP from Northern Ireland. “Yes he is” the pastor replied. So I couldn’t help myself from going just to lay eyes on the man.
So I went, and there he was. His sermon was not at all political, but I could tell from the congregation and from him that 300 years of separation meant little. They were still the same people.
In a way, I have come to think they “needed” America, as their natural independent-mindedness and land hunger had room to exert itself in America. And America needed them. As was the case in the English/Scottish borderlands, as it was in Northern Ireland, their readiness to fight is reflected by their over-representation in the military today and their readiness to go to the frontiers in days past.
Despite a certain wariness of the Deep South, they distrust Yankees even more and generally vote with the Deep South in elections.
Maybe the answer in Ireland is for the Scots-Irish to all come to America. They would be more at home than perhaps they know.
One quick anecdote. Some years ago I read in the paper that Ian Paisley was going to preach in some tiny fundamentalist church in a small town near here. I couldn’t believe my eyes, so I called the preacher of that church and asked if it was the REAL Ian Paisley; the one who was an MP from Northern Ireland. “Yes he is” the pastor replied. So I couldn’t help myself from going just to lay eyes on the man.
So I went, and there he was. His sermon was not at all political, but I could tell from the congregation and from him that 300 years of separation meant little. They were still the same people.
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dvdjs
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It failed catastrophically in Czechoslovakia pre-WWII.
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Athanasiy
Guest
Ukrainian prophets(poets,ideologues) predicted that only Ukraine is destined to destroy the Empire of the Muscovites.
Taras Shwvchenko
en.m.wikipedia.org
Dmytro Dontsov
en.m.wikipedia.org
Pavlo Shtepa
uk.m.wikipedia.org
Pavlo Shtepa is the author of bestseller book “Ukrainian and Moscovite”, this book he was writing all his life, as long as Goethe wrote Faust. Українець і Москвин: дві протилежності - Павло Штепа - Тека авторів - Чтиво
This work (including the book “Moskovstvo”) its a most intellectual Russophobia which ever you can read.
Taras Shwvchenko
Taras Shevchenko - Wikipedia
Dmytro Dontsov
Dmytro Dontsov - Wikipedia
Pavlo Shtepa
Павло Штепа — Вікіпедія
Pavlo Shtepa is the author of bestseller book “Ukrainian and Moscovite”, this book he was writing all his life, as long as Goethe wrote Faust. Українець і Москвин: дві протилежності - Павло Штепа - Тека авторів - Чтиво
This work (including the book “Moskovstvo”) its a most intellectual Russophobia which ever you can read.
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AlNg
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But we are now in the period after WWII. How is the separation of Czechoslovakia working out now? Pretty good it seems.
How is the separation of India and Pakistan working out today? Do you think it would worked out better if there had been no separation of the two?
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AlNg
Guest
Does that mean that you favor the destruction of Russia and the Russian Orthodox Church?
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dvdjs
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I think that it is fairly easy to see that the situation in Ukraine now is much more like pre-WWII rather than present-day Czechoslovakia.
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dvdjs
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Why do you conflate Empire with nation or Church?
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AlNg
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Because the Russian Orthodox Church has close ties with the Kremlin and is in a de facto alliance with the state of Russia. President Putin of Russia has collaborated closely with the ROC and the ROC Patriarch Kirill has endorsed his election saying that his policies toward the church were like a miracle from God.
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dvdjs
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will have to live with his words and acts.
The real point is that A. spoke of the Russian Empire.
Russia can do fine as a nation, without the Empire, without Ukraine.
The ROC will struggle - most of its churches are in Ukraine even as it has a diminishing presence there.
But it could do as well as the Romanian Church, even though it will not be as big as the Ukrainian Church.
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Athanasiy
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In your opinion, the Russian Church
will not exist outside of the Russian Empire?
In the fall of the Russian Empire will fall the Russian Church?
So you confirm that with the help of the Russian Church the Empire can terrorize people and not give them the right to political and territorial independence.
will not exist outside of the Russian Empire?
In the fall of the Russian Empire will fall the Russian Church?
So you confirm that with the help of the Russian Church the Empire can terrorize people and not give them the right to political and territorial independence.
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AlNg
Guest
You have mentioned this poll before, but have not given any details to support its credibility.
What was the question asked?
What language was the poll in?
In what cities specifically was the poll taken?
How did they choose who to ask?
How many people were polled?
Of the people polled how many said that the language they speak at home is Russian?
How did they choose the poll takers?
Where did the poll takers live?
Everyone said that Hillary would win the presidential elections and almost all the polls supported that. So the polls taken in the USA were wrong. Now if the polls taken in a peaceful country were wrong, then could it be the case that polls taken in a chaotic war situation were also dubious?
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AlNg
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No, I don’t recall ever saying that the Russian Orthodox Church can help an empire to terrorize people. I did say something opposite though. I gave an example of a Ukrainian Greek Catholic priest, Father Mikhaylo Arsenych, who has since been reprimanded, but he supported the use of terror and death by hanging against Chinese, Blacks, Jews and Russians who were living in Ukraine. Father Mikhaylo Arsenych was reprimanded for saying so, but how common are his opinions in Ukraine, and are there many Greek Catholics who supported him?
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Ridgerunner
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Once more: http://www.pewglobal.org/2014/05/08...rnance-ukrainians-want-to-remain-one-country/
But it’s easy to find and I’m sure you have, yourself. It shows that the majority of even Russian speakers in eastern Ukraine wanted to remain part of Ukraine, not Russia. I believe among Russian speakers it was 58% favoring Ukraine versus 27% wanting to be part of Russia. Among all Eastern Ukrainians the desire to remain part of Ukraine was much higher.
Your demanding that I somehow analyze the poll proves nothing. I have presented evidence from one of the most credible polling agencies in the world, so the burden is on you to refute it with equally credible or more credible evidence.
But I don’t think you can.
Now, of course, it’s impossible to really analyze the information or recreate the poll since Russia’s military and mercenaries have scattered a million or more Eastern Ukrainians to the winds, virtually depopulating the place in a tactic so popular with Stalin. Later, they’ll move in a lot of Russians from Russia and have a fake vote. That’s the time-honored Russian imperialist pattern.
But it’s easy to find and I’m sure you have, yourself. It shows that the majority of even Russian speakers in eastern Ukraine wanted to remain part of Ukraine, not Russia. I believe among Russian speakers it was 58% favoring Ukraine versus 27% wanting to be part of Russia. Among all Eastern Ukrainians the desire to remain part of Ukraine was much higher.
Your demanding that I somehow analyze the poll proves nothing. I have presented evidence from one of the most credible polling agencies in the world, so the burden is on you to refute it with equally credible or more credible evidence.
But I don’t think you can.
Now, of course, it’s impossible to really analyze the information or recreate the poll since Russia’s military and mercenaries have scattered a million or more Eastern Ukrainians to the winds, virtually depopulating the place in a tactic so popular with Stalin. Later, they’ll move in a lot of Russians from Russia and have a fake vote. That’s the time-honored Russian imperialist pattern.
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