on the tongue or in the hand?

[JNB]

tcj:

If they see “almost all” the children and teens doing so, how could they not know?

I think perhaps you are over-generalizing. I can’t imagine the breakdown you describe, simply based on age.

Believe it, at least at my parish. See, the parish I attend, while its not a parish that hosts the traditional latin mass, is still quite traditional, and the children and teens who go to my parish are taught that communion on the tounge is an option, and almost all of them recieve on the tounge. Many middle aged parishoners only recently in many cases started to attend the parish I attend and in many cases, are not aware of communion on the tounge being an option.

 

[misericordie]

JNB:

Believe it, at least at my parish. See, the parish I attend, while its not a parish that hosts the traditional latin mass, is still quite traditional, and the children and teens who go to my parish are taught that communion on the tounge is an option, and almost all of them recieve on the tounge. Many middle aged parishoners only recently in many cases started to attend the parish I attend and in many cases, are not aware of communion on the tounge being an option.

Correction: Communion on the tongue is not the “option” it is the norm. Communion in the hand is the option, and is allowed here in the USA only by special permission, in what is called an indult.

 

[misericordie]

tcj:

If your comments weren’t directed towards us here, then I misunderstood the intent. But who ARE they directed toward? I guess toward people who aren’t here, who can’t see them nor respond? What is the point of that?

I just don’t see the need to throw comments like “Some REFUSE to recognize the color green as green, or that the world is round.” up in the air, simply to see if anyone takes offense.

No, no, no, please, none of us will take offense at an observation here, we are too mature for that.

 

[KCT]

Prefer the tongue, but there are some circumstances when I receive in my hand- EM who is old and shaky, young EM who is new, short EMs (I’m tall). —KCT

 

[Debbie]

deogratias:

S. Corda, last I heard, she is officially a saint

I believe you’re referring to Mother Teresa.

Is a person a saint if they’ve been beatified? I thought they had to be canonized. Currently (I believe) Mother Teresa is referred to Blessed Teresa of Calcutta. When she’s canonized, she’ll be St. Teresa of Calcutta.

Debbie

 

[system]

misericordie:

Correction: Communion on the tongue is not the “option” it is the norm. Communion in the hand is the option, and is allowed here in the USA only by special permission, in what is called an indult.

In the US, both hand and tongue are valid choices, valid options. You know that, JNB knows that, we all know that.

The issue of “norm and indult” is a completely different matter. The word “option” does not refer to either the norm, or the Indult. Or it refers to both equally. Or you can say that the existence of the Indult, gives us two options for receiving, neither being more preferred than the other. Take your pick.

 

[scaxter]

I receive on the tongue because it is more reverant. At one time in my life I thought I would switch to receiving in the hand. I did so, and after putting Jesus into my mouth I looked at my hands and saw a few tiny crumbs from the host. I would have thrown those crumbs to the floor if I hadn’t noticed them. From that point on I have always received on the tongue. It bothers me though that altar servers are not doing the job any longer of catching the crumbs with a paten when people receive on the tongue.

I also think there is an abuse in passing the Blood of Christ back and forth from person to person by way of drinking from the Chalice. I also at one time was going to partake in this. Somehow there must have been a misunderstanding between me and the Extra Ordinary Minister and the cup nearly dropped to the floor. Jesus’ Blood spilled out onto the floor and onto my shirt. The only really proper way of receiving the Blood of Christ is when the priest and only the priest or deacon do it by way of intincture. I know the people cannot dip the host into the Blood of Christ, but it is my understanding that a priest can do this to the people, and then EVERYONE ***must ***receive the Blood of Christ with His Body on the tongue.

What’s lacking now a days is the reverence for the Holy Eucharist.

 

[legeorge]

I would prefer intinction to the separate host and chalice myself. At a shrine near my home that I attend quite often they celebrate the Maronite Rite and Communion is always offered by intinction. I have never attended a Roman Rite Mass that did this. Is it allowed? And if so, why isn’t that the preferred method?

 

[misericordie]

tcj:

In the US, both hand and tongue are valid choices, valid options. You know that, JNB knows that, we all know that.

The issue of “norm and indult” is a completely different matter. The word “option” does not refer to either the norm, or the Indult. Or it refers to both equally. Or you can say that the existence of the Indult, gives us two options for receiving, neither being more preferred than the other. Take your pick.

huhhhh? Let me re-phrase so all can make efforts to understand: In the Roman Catholic Church(hopefully the catholic Dioceses/parishes are part of the Roman Catholic Church=the catholic Church in the USA(not the so called: “American Church”) it is the norm to recieve Christ on the tongue. However, the vatican gave the indult to catholics in certain countries, to recieve Communion in the hand(which at first was to be for a certain period). However, it was only by a special permission(seems the Roman Catholic Church in the USA is where all the novelties begin) and the norm of ----Communion on the tongue was is to be maintained(one even has the right to kneel to recieve in any Mass). Hence, the norm=Communion on the tongue. The indulted special permission=in the hand. :tiphat:

 

[pnewton]

scaxter:

The only really proper way of receiving the Blood of Christ is when the priest and only the priest or deacon do it by way of intincture.

Not true. Receiving from the chalice is proper and acceptable.

In six years I have never seen an accident like you described and it certainly is unfortunate. Even with intinction, accidents (already rare) would only be reduced, not eliminated.

 

[system]

misericordie:

huhhhh? Let me re-phrase so all can make efforts to understand: … Hence, the norm=Communion on the tongue. The indulted special permission=in the hand.

That’s exactly what I said. Don’t say “huhhh”, please re-read what I wrote. I cannot write it more clearly.

My issue was, that if someone says “communion on the tongue is an option”, that is not something you need to correct. It’s absolutely true. On the tongue is an option, in the hand is an option. The Indult gives us (Latin Rite Catholics in the USA, in the Mass of 1970) two options, two choices. Unless the Indult is someday withdrawn, the average Catholic does not need to worry about which practice is “norm” and which is “indult”, and they should not be told that either option is preferred over the other.

 

[Brian_Crane]

pnewton:

I think it is not best to try to guess at motives behind actions of someone not able to defend oneself (Paul VI).

deogratias:

Did I do that? I thought I merely wondered and someone else guessed. Actually there is more opinion than fact tossed around in the forums, don’t you think…Or maybe we could precede each post with the word FACT - if it was documented Church teaching and OPINION - if it was just one thought…

When I said “Paul VI decided to grant the indult, IMO,…” the IMO means "in my opinion."Somehow it seems appropriate to share opinions in an internet Catholic forum as well as facts, just my opinion of course. Besides everbody’s entitled to my opinion. I try not to be cavalier about guessing motives of Pope Paul or anyone else, nor am I trying to denigrate him. I’ve read a bunch about the subject, and as such have formed my opinion about it. That’s what I think happened. If you don’t agree, feel free to say so.

pnewton:

Now Brian Crane might have read your mind. Not that I am accusing him of witchcraft, but… nevermind. Wrong century.

I think its not best to try to…oh nevermind.:whacky:

 

[deogratias]

misericordie]huhhhh? Let me re-phrase so all can make efforts to understand:

Allow me to edit this correctly so all can understand as you say but lets be accurate and without personal asides in the commentary.

In the Roman Catholic Church it is the norm to recieve Christ on the tongue.

Vatican II never envisioned that there would be communion in the hand.

Prior to Vatican II, several countries (American was not one of them) were illicitly providing communion in the hand.

When this came to the attention of Paul VI, he polled all the Bishops to see if this should be changed universally.

Almost unanimously, the Bishops elected to keep communion on the tongue as the norm.

All the novelties did not begin in the U.S. and definitely not communion in the hand.

Paul VI granted an indult, special permission contrary to canon law, that those countries that already had the practice could continue to receive communion in the hand.

The U.S. was not one of these countries.

The U.S. Bishops decided to petition for the Indult for the U.S. as well and it was granted.

TCJ did not dispute this fact, that communion on the tongue is the norm and that communion in the hand is granted by Indult, he confirmed it.

What he did explain was that even so, one has the choice to follow the norm or the indult (i.e. has the option).

Neither may be refused in coutries where both the norm and the Indult are exercised.

Standing to receive communion is now the adopted posture in the U.S but no indult is required to kneel since it has been stated by Rome that the posture chosen in each coutnry is only to encourage uniformity.

The Bishops of each country are to recommend which is the posture for their coutnry on this posture and the U.S. Bishops decided on standing.

As another example.

Ordo Missae is the norm for Mass in the Roman Catholic Church.

By special Indult, Mass may be celebrated using the 1962 Missal with the Bishop’s permission.

In Dioceses where there is permission, one has the choice (option) to follow the Norm or the Indult.

As Sgt Friday on Dragnet used to say, “Just the facts, mam” (or sir as the cae may be )

Hope this clears this up once and for all.

 

[GregC]

misericordie:

Just like most of the middle-aged and elderly Catholics who like to CHAT in church. These are the ones who are still stuck in the late 1960’s and 1970’s, and who still remember the priests telling them they MUST recieve in the hand, they could talk in church, nothing is a sin anymore, all is relative. THE HOPE is in the YOUNG generation of Catholics, and the same goes for the priests and nuns. The ones over 50 seem for the most part the MOST liberal. Come on, we are in the year 2004, with a new Pope elected in 1978, and who is pushing for more tradition, lets all get with it.

wonderful observation. please pray for us young ones, as we are constantly under attack for our faith, from both the secular society and the modern CCD (cut color and draw) class that doesn’t teach us the rosary, eucharistic adoration, or even basic catholic prayers (but we can make a great nativity scene with recycled cardboard!). Yes, I receive on the tongue; no, i wasn’t taught it was an option in my religious ed class. I learned that from the same wonderful people who taught me the rosary and showed me Adoration and Benediction,taught me how to pray the Breviary, and introduced me to novenas–EWTN!

 

[deogratias]

EWTN has been a real eye opener for many Catholics - and Mother Angilica is a real testimony of faith and the power of prayer.

 

[deogratias]

Debbie:

I believe you’re referring to Mother Teresa.

Is a person a saint if they’ve been beatified? I thought they had to be canonized. Currently (I believe) Mother Teresa is referred to Blessed Teresa of Calcutta. When she’s canonized, she’ll be St. Teresa of Calcutta.

Debbie

You are correct, I was thinking she was canonized in 2003 but she was only beatified then -

 

[misericordie]

deogratias:

Allow me to edit this correctly so all can understand as you say but lets be accurate and without personal asides in the commentary.

In the Roman Catholic Church it is the norm to recieve Christ on the tongue.

Vatican II never envisioned that there would be communion in the hand.

Prior to Vatican II, several countries (American was not one of them) were illicitly providing communion in the hand.

When this came to the attention of Paul VI, he polled all the Bishops to see if this should be changed universally.

Almost unanimously, the Bishops elected to keep communion on the tongue as the norm.

All the novelties did not begin in the U.S. and definitely not communion in the hand.

Paul VI granted an indult, special permission contrary to canon law, that those countries that already had the practice could continue to receive communion in the hand.

The U.S. was not one of these countries.

The U.S. Bishops decided to petition for the Indult for the U.S. as well and it was granted.

TCJ did not dispute this fact, that communion on the tongue is the norm and that communion in the hand is granted by Indult, he confirmed it.

What he did explain was that even so, one has the choice to follow the norm or the indult (i.e. has the option).

Neither may be refused in coutries where both the norm and the Indult are exercised.

Standing to receive communion is now the adopted posture in the U.S but no indult is required to kneel since it has been stated by Rome that the posture chosen in each coutnry is only to encourage uniformity.

The Bishops of each country are to recommend which is the posture for their coutnry on this posture and the U.S. Bishops decided on standing.

As another example.

Ordo Missae is the norm for Mass in the Roman Catholic Church.

By special Indult, Mass may be celebrated using the 1962 Missal with the Bishop’s permission.

In Dioceses where there is permission, one has the choice (option) to follow the Norm or the Indult.

As Sgt Friday on Dragnet used to say, “Just the facts, mam” (or sir as the cae may be )

Hope this clears this up once and for all.

Thank you so much deo, hopefully all will understand now. Many blessings to you, and again, thaks for these wonderful facts you present here.

 

[EENS]

If you believe that Christ is present in the Eucharist, why would you not receive kneeling on the tongue? There is no reason not to except pride (thinking you are equal to God and receiving in the hand, as you would shake another person’s hand who is of equal rank) or just plain vanity because you care what other people think. If there are other reasons I have not found them…
God bless.

 

[Debbie]

deogratias:

You are correct, I was thinking she was canonized in 2003 but she was only beatified then -

I’ll bet with all the hoopla around her beatification (no disrespect intended) that many were confused. I think she was beatified around the same time Josemaria Escriva was canonized. I thought she was canonized for a couple of months myself.

I went to the Catholic Encyclopedia to get more info on the difference between beatification and canonization and now have a question to post to the apologetics section.

They say idle hands are the devil’s playground–our faith sure keeps us busy learning about it! No idle hands here!

God bless,

Debbie

 

[deogratias]

EENS - do you just come to this forum to preach what you believe vs what the Church teaches?

Someone asked why SSPX posts should be flagged and yours are always a good example as to why that is.

Forums do allow opinions, true.

But since this is a *Catholic Forum, *and some people come here to learn about true Catholic Teachings, I feel that we should be very specific when we are offering opinions or teaching that is conrary to what Mother Church is teaching. How confusing it must be to seekers and lurkers to constantly see these interjections by those claiming to be loyal to the Pope and the Church who constantly take exception to all Vatican II teachings, all liturgical licit forms, etc.

I wish you would all just go start an SSPX forum and leave the rest of us alone.