On the topic of gay marriage

[mitex]

You’ve been sold, and selling a lie. Not sure why you are in a Catholic Forum and not wanting a dispute over this topic. If you go back to your post, it’s full of “I” “we” “diverse” “my”, etc. that you exude the most fundamental problem related to the secular society. ME ME ME ME ME!

The Fullness of the Lord is the WORD of the Lord. Not yours!

Well there you go judging again (refer to my post on judgement)!

I have never once questioned your faith so why are you questioning mine?!

And if you must know I was an RCIA candidate for the better part of the year before I came back to the Episcopal Church.

And how terribly rude of you for saying I shouldn’t be here

All because I have a difference of opinion from you. Wow real smooth

 

[PumpkinSeed]

I don’t care if gay marriage is legalized. It is their business, not mine, and its not hurting me.

If they want to ignore what the bible says, that is their right. I cannot take away someones free will.

 

[Ammo]

Well there you go judging again (refer to my post on judgement)!

I have never once questioned your faith so why are you questioning mine?!

And if you must know I was an RCIA candidate for the better part of the year before I came back to the Episcopal Church.

And how terribly rude of you for saying I shouldn’t be here

All because I have a difference of opinion from you. Wow real smooth

What “judgment” did I declare? and cite where I said you shouldn’t be here? And I never stated you questioned my faith or am I questioning your faith. Just the teaching of the church. And on the contrary, glad you are with us. I’d like to see you come back to the Truth. A house divided will assuredly fall.

 

[mitex]

What “judgment” did I declare? and cite where I said you shouldn’t be here? And I never stated you questioned my faith or am I questioning your faith. Just the teaching of the church. And on the contrary, glad you are with us. I’d like to see you come back to the Truth. A house divided will assuredly fall.

Well then we’ll just have to agree to disagree. You’ve stated your beliefs and I have stated mine. I have no intention of leaving the Anglican community again .

I’d much rather focus on things we agree on instead of things that are divisive

 

[Ammo]

Well then we’ll just have to agree to disagree. You’ve stated your beliefs and I have stated mine. I have no intention of leaving the Anglican community again .

I’d much rather focus on things we agree on instead of things that are divisive

I appreciate your position, and as long as we all can have civil dialogue, let’s open our hearts to the Holy Spirit to guide us and keep us in God’s favor!

God Bless, my neighbor!

 

[Rainaldo]

…gays aren’t telling the government to force the Church to recognize their marriage and they couldn’t even if they wanted to (1st Amendment). Gay marriage is of no threat to us.

Don’t be so naive - it’s a huge threat. Once gay marriage is legalized in enough states and a generation or two have gotten used to the idea that gay marriage is coequal with real marriage, they will use the equal-protection clause of the 14th amendment against us and force us to recognize gay marriages. It’s already happening in Canada, where the Human Rights Commission is prosecuting people for even speaking out against homosexuality itself, including clergy.

 

[mitex]

Don’t be so naive - it’s a huge threat. Once gay marriage is legalized in enough states and a generation or two have gotten used to the idea that gay marriage is coequal with real marriage, they will use the equal-protection clause of the 14th amendment against us and force us to recognize gay marriages. It’s already happening in Canada, where the Human Rights Commission is prosecuting people for even speaking out against homosexuality itself, including clergy.

Once again same-sex marriages have been taking place unofficially since World War II when drag queens started the concept. Even if you ban recognition of same-sex marriage.

LGBT affirming Churches will still perform them and do related unions because they can! Nothing you will do will ever change that fact!

 

[sw85]

Now I know that this has probably been beaten like a dead horse but I still cannot for the life of me get this. Why does the Church want government sanctioned gay marriage illegal? The Sacrament of Marriage is a sacrament no? The Church is completely free to decide who can validly receive it or not. All gay marriage means for gays is certain bonuses that they can get from the government for example when you do your taxes. The Church does not have to allow gays to marry nor does it have to recognize it as a marriage.

For example the church does not recognize the holy orders of certain denominations. Well you don’t see the Church telling the government that such and such church shouldn’t ordain John Doe. As far as I am concerned all the Church needs to do is let all Catholics know once and for all that gay marriage is and never will be valid and that living a gay life style is sin and an abomination unto the Lord. What gays WHO AREN’T EVEN CATHOLIC do should be none of our concern.

I may have blew my top a little there but it makes no sense, gays aren’t telling the government to force the Church to recognize their marriage and they couldn’t even if they wanted to (1st Amendment). Gay marriage is of no threat to us. At the end of the day you can tell your brother that a sin is a sin and that the merits of which are death and hellfire, but you cannot force your brother to obey the rule of the Lord (otherwise where is the free will God gave us?).

You say you “still” cannot understand it. This suggests that you have tried previously to understand it and failed. So clearly there’s no sense trying to dredge up an argument for you since it won’t convince you.

Instead, let’s try this. The Church alone is protected from error by the Holy Spirit. It has determined that gay “marriage” is an abomination and is not to be permitted. Therefore gay “marriage” is an abomination and is not to be permitted. You may disagree, but you are wrong, because you do not enjoy the Holy Spirit’s protection from error. Any possible failure to understand can only be due to a deficiency in your part in knowledge or understanding. So instead of attacking the Church’s teachings in such language, I caution you to accept them as and, instead, ask questions in a genuine spirit of good-faith inquiry.

Once again same-sex marriages have been taking place unofficially since World War II when drag queens started the concept. Even if you ban recognition of same-sex marriage.

LGBT affirming Churches will still perform them and do related unions because they can! Nothing you will do will ever change that fact!

I gather from this post that you have absolutely no idea why the Catholic Church teaches that gay “marriage” is not to be permitted (hint: it isn’t to keep homosexuals from having pretend “marriage” ceremonies and exchanging rings and calling each other “husband and husband”). Why, then, do you presume to lecture us?

 

[mitex]

You say you “still” cannot understand it. This suggests that you have tried previously to understand it and failed. So clearly there’s no sense trying to dredge up an argument for you since it won’t convince you.

Instead, let’s try this. The Church alone is protected from error by the Holy Spirit. It has determined that gay “marriage” is an abomination and is not to be permitted. Therefore gay “marriage” is an abomination and is not to be permitted. You may disagree, but you are wrong, because you do not enjoy the Holy Spirit’s protection from error. Any possible failure to understand can only be due to a deficiency in your part in knowledge or understanding. So instead of attacking the Church’s teachings in such language, I caution you to accept them as and, instead, ask questions in a genuine spirit of good-faith inquiry.

I gather from this post that you have absolutely no idea why the Catholic Church teaches that gay “marriage” is not to be permitted (hint: it isn’t to keep homosexuals from having pretend “marriage” ceremonies and exchanging rings and calling each other “husband and husband”). Why, then, do you presume to lecture us?

Dear SW,

Marriage does not need to be recognized by the government , If an ordained minister performs any marriage heterosexual or homosexual it is valid. Regardless of whether your Church or the government recognizes it.

 

[sw85]

Dear SW,

Marriage does not need to be recognized by the government , If an ordained minister performs any marriage heterosexual or homosexual it is valid. Regardless of whether your Church or the government recognizes it.

Again, clearly, you have no idea what the Church teaches or why in this respect, so why do you (continue to) presume to lecture us on the topic?

 

[mitex]

Again, clearly, you have no idea what the Church teaches or why in this respect, so why do you (continue to) presume to lecture us on the topic?

Actually I do. I went three quarters of the way through RCIA. I know enough to be educated. Your judging

 

[ssa_fellow]

I know what relativism is but not pluralism. What is pluralism?

They’re very similar, and that’s why the Church often condemn them in the same breath. Relativism is the belief that anyone can interpret their own path in life and it be right for them or something along those lines. Pluralism is the belief that truth is not mutually exclusive to any one group/ ideology. Moreover, pluralism is the result from relativist morality. Pluralism means that we have to respect every voice in the “market place of ideas”. And respect to a level of never engaging them or challenging them.

The Catholic Church claims that it has the fullness of truth, as revealed to them by God.

So, any religion outside Catholicism or any individual outside the Church can certainly find some truth, or perhaps a lot of truth. But the only institution capable of attaining the “fullness of truth” is the Catholic Church.

Catholics should want the entire world to be Catholic. One day it will be.

Pluralists are the opposite. They’re fine with thousands of different religions, philosophies, ideologies all existing forever. “They all have their own merit, if it works for the people that believe in them”, “why not?, go ahead”.

 

[mitex]

They’re very similar, and that’s why the Church often condemn them in the same breath. Relativism is the belief that anyone can interpret their own path in life and it be right for them or something along those lines. Pluralism is the belief that truth is not mutually exclusive to any one group/ ideology. Moreover, pluralism is the result from relativist morality. Pluralism means that we have to respect every voice in the “market place of ideas”. And respect to a level of never engaging them or challenging them.

The Catholic Church claims that it has the fullness of truth, as revealed to them by God.

So, any religion outside Catholicism or any individual outside the Church can certainly find some truth, or perhaps a lot of truth. But the only institution capable of attaining the “fullness of truth” is the Catholic Church.

Catholics should want the entire world to be Catholic. One day it will be.

Pluralists are the opposite. They’re fine with thousands of different religions, philosophies, ideologies all existing forever. They all have their own merit, if it works for the people that believe in them, “why not?, go ahead”.

Here we go… The entire Episcopal Church is pluralistic. That must make me a heretic!

 

[CMatt25]

I’ve just stopped caring one way or the other. Even in places where same-sex marriage is illegal they’re still performing marriages and holy unions in affirming Churches.

I say let them. Love is love. There will be weddings regardless of official recognition or not.

Now the good people of CAF will disagree with me but I stand my ground.

Bring on the critics!

I stand with you.

 

[Rainaldo]

Actually I do. I went three quarters of the way through RCIA. I know enough to be educated. Your judging

For a minute there I thought you were going to say you had 12 years of Catholic school as proof you know what you’re talking about.

But now that you reveal you’re an RCIA dropout…

 

[CMatt25]

Your missing the point of the church. It’s about the devaluing of the sacrement of marriage.

If that’s the point, I don’t find it convincing. Gays getting married/united in ceremonies performed by other religions willing to do so, or in civil marriages/unions or whatever it ends up being legally called by the state or by a non Catholic faith group, does not in any way affect or devalue the Sacrament of Holy Matrimony. No Catholic marriage is in jeopardy or threatened if 2 gays get married unless 2 gays getting married causes the Catholic marriage to end in divorce. And if that were the case there were far more problems within the marriage to begin with. IMHO entirely too much time is spent on this issue when there are bigger fish to fry. Just a few greater pressing issues imo include further helping the poor, caring for the sick. Peace.

 

[Perplexity]

I applaud the OP, I completely agree! You know what gets me though? When some Catholics appeal to natural law ethics to justify their opposition to gov. sanctioned same sex marriages. Natural law, if anything, would oppose same-sex sex! You don’t see them pushing for the illegalization of same-sex though.

 

[CMatt25]

I applaud the OP, I completely agree! You know what gets me though? When some Catholics appeal to natural law ethics to justify their opposition to gov. sanctioned same sex marriages. Natural law, if anything, would oppose same-sex sex! You don’t see them pushing for the illegalization of same-sex though.

Not yet but in any case I :clapping: the OP as well. Peace.

 

[CMatt25]

Many Catholic adoption agencies, in places where gay marriage has been made legal, have been forced to choose between placing children in same-sex homes or shutting their doors.

No one forced them to not provide adoption services for children. That would have been the choice they made under the law. And I imagine other adoption agencies might have chosen differently. I’m thankful there are children still finding loving homes.

 

[Bulldog76center]

Race is sacred, property is sacred and MARRIAGE is sacred. I will personally block any gays from EVER entering my church for marriage purposes…and im sure im not alone. NO GAY MARRIAGE IN THE CHURCH OF CHRIST! THE END!