Once a Catholic...always a Catholic?

[belindacy]

At some point you will need to decide to break ties, the sooner the better. Even though only symbolic it implies that you are in union with that Christian Community and believe what they teach.

I can stop taking communion but I can’t leave there forever. I have people there that care about me and are very supportive. My Baptist minister is paying $60 towards a Catholic womens conference and when I get confirmed she will be there. She was my pastor but she also is my friend. She is one of the people that is helping with my therapy with my Catholic GP and my Muslim ADHD specialist. My Baptist Baptismal sponsor is even supportive of my religious journey that has lead me to the Catholic Church. There are many people who know I’m in RCIA and have not said anything bad about the Church.

 

[LeahInancsi]

Is there a way to maintain friendships with these people away from the church building? Meeting for lunch, chatting on the phone, dinner parties, etc.

I’m no expert by any means, but I think continuing to attend a Baptist church after you’ve become Catholic is not cool at all. I’m trying to be kind, but it just seems wrong especially considering the way Baptists generally feel about Catholicism.

You need to make a break with the Baptist church ASAP.

 

[belindacy]

Is there a way to maintain friendships with these people away from the church building? Meeting for lunch, chatting on the phone, dinner parties, etc.

I’m no expert by any means, but I think continuing to attend a Baptist church after you’ve become Catholic is not cool at all. I’m trying to be kind, but it just seems wrong especially considering the way Baptists generally feel about Catholicism.

You need to make a break with the Baptist church ASAP.

I don’t know how Baptists in the US feel about the Catholics but I have only had a bad experience with one and it was very mild from a Baptist who had left the Catholic church. When we had the Canadian Christian fellowship here the Catholics and Baptist worked together along with the other Christian denominations. After I am Catholic I probably won’t go to the Baptist church as much. I know I want to go to the Intergenerational whick is twice a year one for Easter and one for Christmas. We do a craft, have supper and an evening service.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

I can stop taking communion but I can’t leave there forever. I have people there that care about me and are very supportive. My Baptist minister is paying $60 towards a Catholic womens conference and when I get confirmed she will be there. She was my pastor but she also is my friend. She is one of the people that is helping with my therapy with my Catholic GP and my Muslim ADHD specialist. My Baptist Baptismal sponsor is even supportive of my religious journey that has lead me to the Catholic Church. There are many people who know I’m in RCIA and have not said anything bad about the Church.

I don’t mean break ties with your personal friends. I meant break ties with the Baptist church or Baptist Faith and practice. At some point you will need to be able to say I am now living a Catholic life of Faith and Practice, I am no longer Baptist.

 

[mary_bobo]

For example, praying to Mary and the saints (or asking them to intercede). I know that some Catholics say that this is no different than asking a friend to pray for us; but when I ask a friend to pray for me, I do not pray to them. Also, I do not find any examples in scripture of anyone praying to someone other than God.

1 Timothy 2:5-6 says: “For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all men - the testimony given its proper time.” (I don’t see how scripture could be any clearer.)

(I’m not sure this should be posted on this thread, as I don’t want to cause "thread drift.) Feel free to move it if necessary.
.

We do not pray TO Mary. We ask her to pray for us and to intercede to her Son on our behalf. The best way I can think of to honor someone is to honor and show respect for his/her mother. This is how I view our relationship with Mary. We often hear non-Catholics say this, but it is simply not true.

 

[mary_bobo]

So, can I pray to my dead grandmother?

Oh, please. Don’t accept as true what you have been told here, but don’t insult the rest of us with comments like this. It is not worthy of the discussion.

 

[Leese]

This still does not indicate that we are to pray to anyone other than the Lord. I will pray to the Lord alone. Jesus is my mediator.

Hi Priscilla A.,

I couldn’t help but follow this thread when I noticed that you feel very strongly about Jesus being the one true mediator. I am a new Catholic convert (Easter 2005) and to be honest, I am not used to invoking the saints in my prayers; only a year ago did I attempt to pray the rosary. But I do accept that it is “Catholic” to embrace the importance of Mary in our faith life. And I’m trying to get to know her more.

In your quest for the Truth - Praise God - you will inevitably compare the Bible with the day to day practices of Catholics. But I can safely say that the Bible cannot be understood at face value. So if you are seeking direct references to Mary’s special intercessory privileges, you may come to naught except for the passages other friends in this thread have shared; and perhaps the Miracle of Cana (Mary intercedes for the host of the wedding party by informing Jesus of the finishing of wine).

That’s why we need the Church (and her Magisterium) to interpret Scripture and make the laws with the guidance of the Holy Spirit. And according to her doctrines (e.g Dogma of the Catholic Faith) Mary does have special privileges, is a mediator of graces in Heaven and a co-redemptrist along with Jesus, her son. Yes, Mary was declared Theotokos (Mother of God) during the 3rd Ecumenical Council of Ephesus in 431 AD which was later ratified by Vatican Council II and is now documented as Truth in not only the Dogma but also the 4 Marian Dogmas well as the Catechism of the Catholic Faith on which the Sunday School syllabus is based.

To understand further, we probably need to go deeper into the doctrines. It may be useful to know then that point #164 in the Dogma states that “Mary gave the Redeemer, the Source of all graces, to the world, and in this way she is the channel of all graces. (Sent. certa.)”.#165 states:Since Mary’s Assumption into Heaven no grace is conferred on man without her actual intercessory co-operation. (Sent. pia et probabilis.) #166 states: Mary is the Mediatrix of all graces by her co-operation in the Incarnation. (Mediatio in universali.) #167 states: Mary is the Mediatrix of all graces by her intercession in Heaven. (Mediatio in speciali.) And #168: Mary, the Mother of God, is entitled to the Cult of Hyperdulia. (Sent certa.)

Basically, the “Cult of Hyperdulia” is the “kind” of honour given to Mary in Heaven (Saints are also given honour but that below of Mary because the latter is sinless and thus the closest to Divinity a human being can get). The same document on the Cult also explicitly states that she is not given the same status as God (Cult of Latria - adoration - reserved for God alone). There’s more to this of course, but the point is they are supposed to justify the Catholics’ usage of Mary (and the saints) to intercede for them in their prayers.

Sure, we do not “pray” to our friends to pray to Jesus for us and our intentions. We however end up “praying” to Mary because, well, she’s not here on Earth for us to go, “Hey Mum, can you pray for my exams or job, etc.?” We KNEEL before her purely because she’s not just any mum of course. She’s the Mother of God. It is important to note here that Mary’s privilege exists only with the involvement of Jesus.

Maybe this e may help you understand a bit more and see the link. Maybe it won’t because you may still have doubt and that’s okay. I struggled with half the stuff in the Bible until I “bumped” into the Book of Ecclesiastes (Chapter 3 if I’m not mistaken) which says that while God gave us intellect, He has chosen to limit our minds so while we yearn to know everything, we will be denied full knowledge.

I guess if we knew everything, we would not need God. And we would never really know if we have faith. Our faith is put to the test when we “do not see, yet believe”, and when we are faced with mystery - in short, the inexplicable. And ironically enough, much of the Catholic faith is steeped in Mystery (Paschal Mystery for instance and the Mystery of the Holy Trinity).

I would encourage you to discuss this with more qualified Catholics than a recent convert like myself. Asking questions is healthy. Furthermore, if you’re asking so fervently, I’m sure God Himself will personally answer you in His time.

For the 4 Marian Dogmas, visit: http://campus.udayton.edu/mary/mariandogmas.html; for the Dogma of the Catholic Faith, visit: http://www.theworkofgod.org/dogmas.htm. If you want to know more about the “Cult of Hyperdulia”, google THE MOTHER OF THE SAVIOR

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

So, can I pray to my dead grandmother?

I would hope that your Grandmother is alive in Christ!
Do you truly believe that she is dead to God in Hell?

 

[liturgy_geek]

I would hope that your Grandmother is alive in Christ!
Do you truly believe that she is dead to God in Hell?

Indeed!!

Again I would ask what all those in heaven are doing (we already know they are loving God and others in heaven perfectly), and if they are forbidden in any way to pray (which they hopefully did for us while on earth) for those of us on earth who are still striving to love God and others, in imitation of Christ.

It also seems that we are parting ways on the word ‘pray’. If when you ask if you can pray to your dead grandmother and you mean you want to worship her, that’s problematic, right? I think we would all agree on that.

But if you mean ‘can I ask her to pray for me’, meaning of course that in addition to enjoying being in God’s presence, she still loves you and is able to pray for you just as she did when she was on earth, what a wonderful thing!

 

[mycrazyhair]

What do you think Christ was doing while He was being transfigured in Matthew 17?

 

[IrishJoe]

The extent of the sin depends on all sorts of factors, of course. What level of knowledge and consent the person has, for example.

A seven-year-old child leaving the church because its parents also leave is in a different boat to someone who’s been Catholic for 30 years, thoroughly knows the faith and then decides to leave because, for example, they disagree with Church teaching on divorce or something.

But in most cases, yes.

What happens if, like me, you just don’t believe some of it? One cannot force oneself to believe.

 

[kenofken]

Dude, you’re responding to a VERY old post, but no matter. Here’s the deal. You CAN officially renounce your membership in the Catholic Church. I did, but there’s a few catches. It’s called Actus Formalis Defectionis ab Ecclesia Catholica …“A formal act of defection.” You do this basically by writing to the diocese in which you were baptized and making it clear to them that you no longer believe, and that you want out, and that you understand the consequences. Often times they want some proof that the person requesting is really you, so they want witness signatures or a notary seal or copy of your drivers license or something. Now, what they do with that, if you get it to the right office, is send you a form letter (usally very promptly). They won’t “undo” your baptism, but they will supposedly make a notation in the record that you have defected. This means you have left the “temporal” church or church on Earth so to speak. They still consider you to be Catholic by virtue of baptism, and refuse to change that, saying they don’t have the power to do so.

Until very recently, formal defection meant you were still a Catholic in Canon Law with one exception: it meant you no longer needed to have a church wedding to have your marriage considered valid. You would be treated like any other non-Catholic schmo who gets married at the courthouse etc, and you union conisdered valid. Recently, they changed that, so that anyone who is or was ever Catholic is not exempt from any of it, so a formal defection as far as I know means nothing in church law anymore. It may or may not be worth doing for your own reasons if you really want out. By the by, you’re an apostate if you reject all or most of the church’s teachings. If you accept some and reject others, you’re just a heretic (or perhaps just an average American Catholic). Good luck and if you want more info, check out www.countmeout.ie.