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Alizarin
Guest
Why is the former anathema to Catholics while the latter is, so far as I can see (though I may be wrong), a commonly accepted view?
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TK421
Guest
The later refers to the permanency of baptism, whereby the sacrament is marked on the person’s soul. A person cannot undo their baptism by committing sin or even by formally leaving the Church. However, being Catholic does not mean that you are saved. You must keep to the faith and confess if you sin.
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1ke
Guest
Because the former is false and the latter is true.
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LongingSoul
Guest
Because they are of different natures. Salvation is the journey we take towards heaven with the pilgrim Church on earth and baptism are the shoes permanently fitted to take that journey.
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TK421
Guest
Once Catholic always Catholic refers to a person that has undergone a baptism. A baptism is permanent and cannot be undone, even if the person lives in sin or leaves the Church or commits apostasy. So from that point forward they are Catholic, though they may not necessarily be orthodox; a person that is baptized is not necessarily in a state of grace. To be in a state of grace, you must live the faith and observe the other sacraments, such as performing confession when you sin.
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jmcrae
Guest
It doesn’t mean that you will automatically believe the Catholic faith for your whole life, but rather, that the ontological change that was made at your Baptism cannot be unmade.
There are probably plenty of lapsed Catholics in Hell.
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bsroufek
Guest
You can be a bad and non practicing Catholic, but you can’t play lawyer with Jesus and say, “I confessed you as my Lord and Savior, now regardless of how I lived my life, you MUST save me!”
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KendraDZ1902
Guest
This whole once Catholic, always Catholic hurts my feelings. When it is explained people say that it is because you are baptized Catholic. Well, I wasn’t. I had a valid baptism and the Church recognizes it, but it wasn’t done at a Catholic Church by a Catholic priest. When it is explained that you are once Catholic, always Catholic because of your baptism, it makes me feel like I’m not fully Catholic. Kinda hurts. 
Can this be explained differently for us converts?
Can this be explained differently for us converts?
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eyesopening
Guest
Actually, I think it is confirmation that makes you Catholic. That is when you are sealed with the cross on your forehead. From that moment on you carry that mark with you, even into Hell if you go there.This whole once Catholic, always Catholic hurts my feelings. When it is explained people say that it is because you are baptized Catholic. Well, I wasn’t. I had a valid baptism and the Church recognizes it, but it wasn’t done at a Catholic Church by a Catholic priest. When it is explained that you are once Catholic, always Catholic because of your baptism, it makes me feel like I’m not fully Catholic. Kinda hurts.
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TK421
Guest
You become Catholic at your baptism and do not necessarily realize it until a later date when you undergo your catechizing. If a child inherits a will from their parent, they may not know about it until a later date, but the will was always written to them from the beginning.
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eyesopening
Guest
Cool, that makes sense.
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Jozefo
Guest
OSAS is a religious doctrine. ‘Catholic’ in the context: ‘once Catholic always Cathbolic’ is a cultural identifier; a label.
If a person identifies himself as Catholic, he’s Catholic, even if he holds strange doctrine. If he says he’s not Catholic, then he isn’t Catholic.
If a person identifies himself as Catholic, he’s Catholic, even if he holds strange doctrine. If he says he’s not Catholic, then he isn’t Catholic.
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Alizarin
Guest
Why doesn’t an assent to the Christian faith (faith in Jesus as savior) have the same indelible mark as Catholic baptism?
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eyesopening
Guest
Any valid Baptism.
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Blacksword
Guest
Because baptism works an ontological, spiritual change regardless of the recipient’s will or knowledge of if. An assent to the Christian faith is a pure act of the will, and that can change over time. One free will to walk into the house of God, and free will to walk out again. The Scriptures provide support for the idea that baptism marks a permanent change (born of water and of spirit), they do not provide any support for the idea of OSAS, which is why the idea remains a view espoused by a very small minority among even Protestants, and is not the view of the historic Church be in Catholic or Orthodox.
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TK421
Guest
A person baptized with the Trinitarian formula (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) is validly baptized, even if it was outside of a Catholic Church, therefore at that instant, they become Catholic, even though they are not cognizant of it, in the same way that a cradle Catholic that was baptized as an infant is not cognizant of it. It is a loving gift from God all the same. Baptism is perhaps expressed most perfectly when a person is not aware of it, because it all the more displays the unearned, freely given grace of God upon mankind.
If a person is not validly baptized, such as a Mormon, then they are not Catholic, whether in practice or ontologically. Baptism is the initial sacramental means of separating a person from the world, just as Jewish male babies were circumcised in order to set them apart. It is later strengthened through Confirmation and living a life in the faith.
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Alizarin
Guest
Wait a second. Is it baptism that makes a Catholic? Or is it Confirmation? Protestants and Orthodox are baptized, too, remember.
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Alizarin
Guest
Protestants are Catholic, but they don’t know it?
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TK421
Guest
If they are validly baptized, then yes, they are Catholic. Eastern Orthodox are also Catholic.
A person becomes a member of the body of the Catholic Church upon baptism. Confirmation further strengthens a person’s baptism when they decide to be confirmed after the age of reason (when they know what they are doing), but they are already Catholic. Confirmation is when a person is graced with the Holy Spirit.
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