Once Saved Always Saved!

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It’s funny; the Catholic Church has a far better understanding of the sanctity of marriage than it does the relationship between God and us. Your church seems to understand that marriage is a permanent relationship (in sickness and in health; for richer or for poorer), but fails to acknowledge the same is even truer of our relationship with our Father.
Brian,

I don’t think you may be understanding the Catholic position. OSAS is not biblical. Some Protestants actually agree with Catholics on this issue. We believe God is EVER FAITHFUL. Our trust in Him can be rock solid. Sometimes we quip that God is the “hound of heaven” … we do this to make the point that God will be there giving us grace until the moment of death; and for all we know He may even extend that life to bring us to a saved condition. The reason Catholics do not buy into OSAS is because OSAS basically says that WE HUMANS can’t do anything that would wreck our chance of salvation after we accept Jesus as Savior (some groups will say Lord and Savior). This is against scripture and tradition. The reality of the Catholic position is that God will grant us grace EVEN WHEN WE BLOW IT; but we indeed CAN BLOW IT by obstinate and grave sin and refusing grace freely given.

MonFrere
 
Your church seems to understand that marriage is a permanent relationship (in sickness and in health; for richer or for poorer), but fails to acknowledge the same is even truer of our relationship with our Father.
Can you quote any Catholic source like the Catechism or a Papal encyclical that claims what you just claimed? I believe the the Catholic Church does nothing different than any of the Apostles who warn the readers of the gravity of sin throughout the New Testament. The stress is on the fact that sin distances us from God, while a holy life in Christ brings us closer to God. I believe that this is the teaching you’ll find throughout the Catechism and throughout the Bible. This relationship is forever, just as marriage, and much care needs to be applied by us, the transgressors to assure that what we do in our life is pleasing to God.

So again, can you show me where, as you stated, the Catholic Church “fails to acknowledge the same is even truer of our relationship with our Father”?
 
1 John 5:13 ("**I write this to you who believe **in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life. "
You may know that you have eternal life.* And, conversely, this passage lets you know you know when you do NOT have eternal life.*
That is, if you are sinning, and you no longer believe in the name of the Son of God, you know you do not have eternal life.*
What the passage means, we can have absolute assurance in the promise of our Father.* He is not fickle–unlike the whimsical pagan gods the Greek Christians used to rely on.* Our Father in heaven will not change his mind.* We have security in Him.** The problem is, WE may change our minds, WE may decide to sin. Then we know we no longer have eternal life.
 
If you really believe that “once saved, always saved”, then I think it is an insult to God, as we are usurping His right to judgement. God alone is the judge of everyone.It would be easy for us sinners if we could judge ourselves and just bypass judgement day.
 
You are either committed to God you you’re not. If you think you might walk away from Him someday than I would say you are not committed, because I believe He is perfectly faithful and is committed. I have no doubt that I will never walk away from my family and they are not perfect. I also have no doubt that I will never walk away from God and He is perfect.

It’s funny; the Catholic Church has a far better understanding of the sanctity of marriage than it does the relationship between God and us. Your church seems to understand that ***marriage is a permanent relationship (in sickness and in health; for richer or for poorer), but fails to acknowledge the same is even truer of our relationship with our Father. ***In John 15, Jesus tells us to abide in Him. We do that through love which enables us to obey His commandments. And when we unwillingly fail to keep His commandments or make a bad decision, He is our advocate with the Father who is quick to forgive because we are covered by Christ’s blood. So a person who loves God will cherish their relationship with Him, and by Him they will be nourished and bear fruit. Jesus promises that those who bear fruit will not ever be cut off, but pruned so that they might bear more fruit.
Hello Brian,
Christians marry and commit to the promises highlighted, however stats say 50%of marriages end in divorce. Adultery is a deadly sin.
Christians do continue to fall short of the glory of God in spite of their promises to him. Why does scripture remind us to persevere until the end, to keep the commandments if these scriptures do not mean what they say .OSAS is a false doctrine.Presumption is a sin and can be very dangerous for all Christians.:eek:Carlan.
 
The Baptist church in which I left, taught that when one is saved, they are always saved. This made sense to me with the scriptures they were feeding me at the time. But now as I read on, that simply can not be true, An example I now see in the Bible is the Disciple Judas who betrayed our Lord and Savior. The Baptist and Protestants that I know always say “Eh, he was never saved in the first place, he fooled everyone into thinking he was a true follower” This makes no sense. Why would God call Judas to the discipleship if Judas had no intention of really serving God?" Judas had the right intentions in the beginning but his Faith faltered and he turned from the Savior. The Baptist and Protestant way of thinking makes Jesus look like he purposely allowed a traitor in his chosen circle of disciples. We all have a free will. Is my thinking correct here, because I feel that by this example refutes the belief of OSAS?
Well Hello Convert,

I also am a convert and was taught the same thing and bought it as well. I know now that one definately can walk away from God. He will still love us but unless we return to Him we will be lost.

As far as Judas goes I have some info that I’ve read. I hope I can explain it the way it was meant to be percieved. Judas was one of Jesus disciples and definately was called by God. He had a very important role because God knew that there had to be a betrayer and knew which one would fill that role. If you will recall Jesus knew beforehand that one of the men would betray Him, the one who sops with me now. (they both reached to sop in the bowl at the same time). There has been much discussion about Judas making him a saint or a demon. I don’t know but he did repent and returned the money before he hanged himself. That brings up another question. What about commiting suicide. I think these may be questions that we will need to ask when we get to heaven. Or, mabe we won’t even have time to think of that sort of thing for praising Him with the choirs of heaven for all eterinty. How happy does that make you right now.

God Bless:harp::angel1::gopray2:

Cora
 
Hello Brian,
Christians marry and commit to the promises highlighted, however stats say 50%of marriages end in divorce. Adultery is a deadly sin.
Christians do continue to fall short of the glory of God in spite of their promises to him. Why does scripture remind us to persevere until the end, to keep the commandments if these scriptures do not mean what they say .OSAS is a false doctrine.Presumption is a sin and can be very dangerous for all Christians.:eek:Carlan.
OSAS the way you understand it may be a false doctrine. But I defined OSAS as a commitment to God. No Catholic I have ever talked to about this understood what that means.

So let me ask you, assuming you are a follower of Christ, do you believe you will ever walk away from God? If your answer is yes you might, then I would say you are not committed to following Christ. If your answer is no, then I would ask you if you believe God will ever forsake you? I relate this commitment to marriage. I would not say that I might one day walk away from my wife; I would die for her if I had to. That is exactly how we should feel about our relationship with God, and that is the true meaning of OSAS.
 
Brian, how would you define “walking away from God?” Sin? Leaving the church? What?
 
OSAS the way you understand it may be a false doctrine. But I defined OSAS as a commitment to God. No Catholic I have ever talked to about this understood what that means.

So let me ask you, assuming you are a follower of Christ, do you believe you will ever walk away from God? If your answer is yes you might, then I would say you are not committed to following Christ. If your answer is no, then I would ask you if you believe God will ever forsake you? I relate this commitment to marriage. I would not say that I might one day walk away from my wife; I would die for her if I had to. That is exactly how we should feel about our relationship with God, and that is the true meaning of OSAS.
Brian,

Which Protestant pastor who later falls away from ministry had earlier admitted that they were not a follower of Christ? Who KNOWS what they will do or believe in 20 years? No one. It is silly to pretend that it is impossible for your point of view or beliefs will not EVER change, no matter what. We see proof of that fallacy all the time. People very committed to Christ, serving in ministry, saying they would literally die for Him today - priests, nuns, pastors, etc. - you find them 20 years later a devout ATHEIST… It is not hard to find examples. What happens is that WE fall away from God. Our committment TODAY does not guarantee our committment next month or next year. Thus, it is called a journey of faith. It is not a one moment “I believe” that is firmly made and cannot be changed later.

Thus, OSAS is a false gospel. One can only know they have the Spirit TODAY, as they obey the Word of God. If that changes, your committment is no longer there. Your then current life of dissipation would prove that you do not have the Spirit and are NOT saved.

Regards
 
OSAS the way you understand it may be a false doctrine. But I defined OSAS as a commitment to God. No Catholic I have ever talked to about this understood what that means.
I think Catholics understand quite well what you are saying, I know I do. We just simply see it as being erroneous. It’s not that we don’t understand you, we just don’t agree. Too often, I see many Protestant apologistst that conflate the two - understanding and agreeing - as one and get irritated when the Catholic won’t convert to their point right away.

ChadS
 
No, you do not understand. If you understood you would not be giving me examples of other people that walked away. You cannot answer for anyone but yourself. Just because your commitment to God is so weak that you cannot say that you will still have it in the future, don’t assume that of others. You cannot know another’s heart.

I cannot tell someone that their salvation is secure, but I can tell them that it can be; I cannot determine that for them. By the same token, your church cannot tell you that you might loose your salvation. Pastors, priests, bishops, etc. cannot insert themselves between us and God.
 
No, you do not understand.
If what you say is true then the Bible would be written differently. St. Paul would have no need to be concerned to be a castaway if he really knew he was “once saved always saved”. The whole concept of “falling away” would be covered entirely differently in scripture. It wouldn’t be covered in a way WHERE YOU COULD ACTUALLY DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. Why the admonishment to “awake from slumber”? Just go ahead and sleep – YOU’RE OK.

In fact, the opposite can be derived from Jesus statement that just because some say LORD LORD have not we done great things in your name doesn’t cut it with Jesus. One has to be doing the will of God. In other words - it’s not a matter of personal confidence. Personally, Brian, you project a lot of personal confidence. IMO - that’s dangerous. Rather, Jesus words indicate that we must be doing the will of the Father and as long as we keep to that task, with the humility of also believing we are not “profitable servants” we’re just doing what’s expected of us - then we can be assured that the Lord will keep HIS promise. In our relationship to the Father we must “allow” for the graciousness of God. In other words - we must come to the place where we simply say to God (with our salvation) – thy will be done. We give ourselves totally and freely to God not for salvation but for love of Him and in that relationship between human and divine we totally let God be God and confidently wait for the salvation He promised. Salvation is THE RELATIONSHIP. If the relationship is wrong salvation isn’t present.

MonFrere
 
No, you do not understand. If you understood you would not be giving me examples of other people that walked away. You cannot answer for anyone but yourself. Just because your commitment to God is so weak that you cannot say that you will still have it in the future, don’t assume that of others. You cannot know another’s heart.

I cannot tell someone that their salvation is secure, but I can tell them that it can be; I cannot determine that for them. By the same token, your church cannot tell you that you might loose your salvation. Pastors, priests, bishops, etc. cannot insert themselves between us and God.
Brian, I can give myself as an example, I have in my life turned my back on God and deliberately disobeyed his commandments, yes I am a sinner and fall short of the Glory of God, I know when I offend God seriously, the Holy Spirit convicts me and God’s actual grace heads me in the direction of my confessor who through Christ is ready to receive me in his name. No I do not know your heart Brian, what I am hearing from you though is that you have a pure heart, and that you believe that there is no way that your purity will be lost, because you are a saint whose condition will never be marred from here to eternity. You know what? many of us have been taught that pride and presumption can be the death of us.:eek: If you know what I mean. Carlan
 
No, you do not understand. If you understood you would not be giving me examples of other people that walked away. You cannot answer for anyone but yourself. Just because your commitment to God is so weak that you cannot say that you will still have it in the future, don’t assume that of others. You cannot know another’s heart.
You are missing the point, Brian. YOU cannot KNOW your future, no matter what you think about your walk today. My point is that other people even MORE devout claimed they were “OSAS” and then fell away. The ludicrous reply from the OSAS camp is “you never were saved to begin with”… SO much for OSAS!!!

THAT response, sadly, defeats the ENTIRE thesis - that one can KNOW they will be eternally saved. I do not doubt that such Protestant pastors had a REAL experience with Christ and COMMITTED themselves to Christ. They devoted their LIVES to Him. And looked what happened. The OSAS were never saved… Good one…

Do you somehow think YOU are “better” than these, that you will avoid the pitfalls of life that can lead to temptation and failure??? We live in fear and trembling regarding our salvation. We are told to beware lest we fall. That applies to every Christian. There is no pass for those who are REALLY REALLY serious on December 4, 2009, since that says NOTHING about December 4, 2010.
I cannot tell someone that their salvation is secure, but I can tell them that it can be;
You cannot do any such thing - because the same people who fell away said the exact same thing 5 or 10 years ago… If even ONE person claiming OSAS falls away later, the entire theology is a farce, and merely denying it is not fit for a thinking person…
I cannot determine that for them. By the same token, your church cannot tell you that you might loose your salvation. Pastors, priests, bishops, etc. cannot insert themselves between us and God.
You have a problem with people praying for you??? Paul didn’t…

You can’t control what will happen in your life years from now. If you think otherwise, you are clearly unschooled in reality.
 
You are either committed to God you you’re not. If you think you might walk away from Him someday than I would say you are not committed, because I believe He is perfectly faithful and is committed. I have no doubt that I will never walk away from my family and they are not perfect. I also have no doubt that I will never walk away from God and He is perfect.

It’s funny; the Catholic Church has a far better understanding of the sanctity of marriage than it does the relationship between God and us. Your church seems to understand that marriage is a permanent relationship (in sickness and in health; for richer or for poorer), but fails to acknowledge the same is even truer of our relationship with our Father.

In John 15, Jesus tells us to abide in Him. We do that through love which enables us to obey His commandments. And when we unwillingly fail to keep His commandments or make a bad desission, He is our advocate with the Father who is quick to forgive because we are covered by Christ’s blood. So a person who loves God will cherish their relationship with Him, and by Him they will be nourished and bear fruit. Jesus promises that those who bear fruit will not ever be cut off, but pruned so that they might bear more fruit.
So I am a little confused here, are you saying that under the OSAS philosophy that a person is in a perpetual state of grace and is sinless? Because sin is walking away from God, and to be OSAS by your statements is to be sinless and in a state of grace.
 
OSAS the way you understand it may be a false doctrine. But I defined OSAS as a commitment to God. No Catholic I have ever talked to about this understood what that means.

So let me ask you, assuming you are a follower of Christ, do you believe you will ever walk away from God? If your answer is yes you might, then I would say you are not committed to following Christ. If your answer is no, then I would ask you if you believe God will ever forsake you? I relate this commitment to marriage. I would not say that I might one day walk away from my wife; I would die for her if I had to. That is exactly how we should feel about our relationship with God, and that is the true meaning of OSAS.
I say to you, yes at some point I will walk away from God because I am a sinner and I will sin. Sin is walking away from God Why? Because I am imperfect and I sin. We all are imperfect and sin. There is only one who was perfect and sinless and that was Christ. Do I do this because I am not committed to God, no, I am imperfect and a sinner. Your rational is seriously flawed my friend. You need to see yourself for who you are, a good Christian, committed to God, who is a sinner.
 
No, you do not understand. If you understood you would not be giving me examples of other people that walked away. You cannot answer for anyone but yourself. Just because your commitment to God is so weak that you cannot say that you will still have it in the future, don’t assume that of others. You cannot know another’s heart.

I cannot tell someone that their salvation is secure, but I can tell them that it can be; I cannot determine that for them. By the same token, your church cannot tell you that you might loose your salvation. Pastors, priests, bishops, etc. cannot insert themselves between us and God.
Once again you’re the one that hasn’t understood, and just as I suspected it comes down to: “If you accepted my interpretation then you really understood, until then you haven’t.”

You say you can’t answer for anyone else but you’ve apparently been able to read my soul and know the strength or lack of strength in my commitment to God. That’s real good.

Do I want to turn my back on God? Do I want to walk away from his love? Absolutely not. At the same time I also realize that I am a sinner and if I allow sin to too freely infect my life and affect my relationship with God then despite what I profess now I could find myself slowly but surely turning my back on God. I think I said it before on here, but it might not be a fast process or an all at once thing, but could take month or years for me or anybody else to turn their back on God.

To use an example it would be like high school sweethearts moving to different cities and vowing to keep their relationship going strong. In the first few weeks apart they write and talk everyday and one or the other makes the drive every weekend to see the other person. Soon though, if they let it happen, they begin to email every other day and talk only twice a week and those weekly trips soon become every two weeks. Pretty soon one or the other begins to wonder what it’s like to date others, before you know it the relationship that started off strong and wouldn’t end is over as they haven’t seen each other in two months and only talked once the previous two weeks.

Sin can have the same effect on our relationship with God, if we let it. How good would your relationship be if you prayed once a month, read the bible every three months and went to church twice a year? Do you think you’d have a good relationship or would God be calling you back to repentance by that point?

ChadS
 
1.Matthew 27:3
Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,

The men that Christ chose were saved men. Now the issue is when did Christ GIVE these men their NEW RESURECTED SOUL.

We are all born spiritually dead, when Christ calls you, and gives you a new resurrected soul, then at that point, Christ has paid for everysingle one of your dirty rotten sins. PAST, PRESENT AND FUTURE.

The disparity is the fact that regardless of our new resurrected soul, we still possess our earthly body which is still polluted by sin. Always has been, always will be. This is known as a spiritual war. Between our souls which have repented and been saved, and our bodies which are lusty for sin.

The INDICATOR that a person is saved, is that when they become saved, they have an intense desire to do the will of God. yet we still live with our sin cursed bodies, thus it is a difficult path to walk, yet nonetheless one we, as true believers, strive for.

Judis in this case, repented at the last, feeling great shame and guilt, then he hung himself. So was Judas a saved man,

In actuallity I don’t know, but just by the words written in the bible we read that at the last, he repented. Only a true believer will repent of his sins, as Christ has already washed them away.

Once saved always saved is true. Once Christ washes your sin away, then you are clean from all sin forever, our resurrected soul is in perfect harmony with God and will go up to heaven to be with Christ, meanwhile our bodies are still sin cursed and we desire our sin because that is the nature of man.

The indicator that a man is saved is his desire to do the will of God. When Judis betrayed our Lord, he pretty much destroyed himself and walked into a dark place of depression and guilt and internal pain. That is evident by the scripture. But at the last he repented.

The men that Christ chose were saved men. Now the issue is when did Christ GIVE these men their NEW RESURECTED SOUL. In this case, as well as with the thief on the cross, Christ gave them new resurrected souls just a few minutes before death, In which case, they were saved men, after living a life of deciet and transgression, at the last they became saved. Even the catholic church teaches that a final repented thought of a man the instant before death is adequete for salvation. Though that is only partly right, because as the bible teaches, having faith, and believing in God, are both works. And we are not saved by our works, but if we are given a new resurrected soul, then that means it is Christs faith in you, which as a result, gives you faith in Christ. All Christ;s work.

Even the sin of Judis, is not to much for our LORD to wash away.

Finally, I do not know enough to say for certian whether or not Judis was saved, The thief for certian was, but the fact that the bible tells us that Judis repented, which really means Christ forgave him, and so his sin was repented, leads me to believe that it might be the case that Judis was saved after all.
 
1.Matthew 27:3
Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,

The men that Christ chose were saved men. Now the issue is when did Christ GIVE these men their NEW RESURECTED SOUL.

We are all born spiritually dead, when Christ calls you, and gives you a new resurrected soul, then at that point, Christ has paid for everysingle one of your dirty rotten sins. PAST, PRESENT AND FUTURE.

The disparity is the fact that regardless of our new resurrected soul, we still possess our earthly body which is still polluted by sin. Always has been, always will be. This is known as a spiritual war. Between our souls which have repented and been saved, and our bodies which are lusty for sin.

The INDICATOR that a person is saved, is that when they become saved, they have an intense desire to do the will of God. yet we still live with our sin cursed bodies, thus it is a difficult path to walk, yet nonetheless one we, as true believers, strive for.

Judis in this case, repented at the last, feeling great shame and guilt, then he hung himself. So was Judas a saved man,

In actuallity I don’t know, but just by the words written in the bible we read that at the last, he repented. Only a true believer will repent of his sins, as Christ has already washed them away.

Once saved always saved is true. Once Christ washes your sin away, then you are clean from all sin forever, our resurrected soul is in perfect harmony with God and will go up to heaven to be with Christ, meanwhile our bodies are still sin cursed and we desire our sin because that is the nature of man.

The indicator that a man is saved is his desire to do the will of God. When Judis betrayed our Lord, he pretty much destroyed himself and walked into a dark place of depression and guilt and internal pain. That is evident by the scripture. But at the last he repented.

The men that Christ chose were saved men. Now the issue is when did Christ GIVE these men their NEW RESURECTED SOUL. In this case, as well as with the thief on the cross, Christ gave them new resurrected souls just a few minutes before death, In which case, they were saved men, after living a life of deciet and transgression, at the last they became saved. Even the catholic church teaches that a final repented thought of a man the instant before death is adequete for salvation. Though that is only partly right, because as the bible teaches, having faith, and believing in God, are both works. And we are not saved by our works, but if we are given a new resurrected soul, then that means it is Christs faith in you, which as a result, gives you faith in Christ. All Christ;s work.

Even the sin of Judis, is not to much for our LORD to wash away.

Finally, I do not know enough to say for certian whether or not Judis was saved, The thief for certian was, but the fact that the bible tells us that Judis repented, which really means Christ forgave him, and so his sin was repented, leads me to believe that it might be the case that Judis was saved after all.
A little context here

Ver. 3. Then Judas, … repenting himself. A fruitless repentance, accompanied with a new sin of despair, says St. Leo. (Witham) — Perceiving that Jesus was delivered up, and remembering what our divine Saviour had said concerning his resurrection, he repented of his atrocious wickedness. Perhaps Satan, who assisted and urged him on to betray his Master, deserted him, not that he had prevailed upon the unhappy miscreant to perpetrate what he had so passionately desired. But how could Judas see that Jesus was condemned? He certainly did not see it, but foreboded in his despairing mind what would be the event. But some are of opinion that this passage is referred to Judas himself, who then became sensible of his crime, and saw his condemnation impending over his head. (Origen) — For the devil does not blind his agents in such a manner, as to leave them insensible of the crime they are about to commit, till it is perpetrated. (St. Chrysostom) — Although Judas conceived a horror at his crime, and confessed it, and made satisfaction to a certain degree by restoring the money, still many essential conditions were wanting to his repentance: 1. faith in Christ, as God, as a redeemer, as the sole justifier from sin; 2. besides this, there was also wanting hopes of pardon, as in Cain, and a love of a much injured and much offended God. Hence his grief was unavailing, like that of the damned. If Judas, says an ancient Father, had had recourse to sincere repentance, and not to the halter, there was mercy in store even for the traitor. (Haydock)
 
A little context here

Ver. 3. Then Judas, … repenting himself. A fruitless repentance, accompanied with a new sin of despair, says St. Leo. (Witham) — Perceiving that Jesus was delivered up, and remembering what our divine Saviour had said concerning his resurrection, he repented of his atrocious wickedness. Perhaps Satan, who assisted and urged him on to betray his Master, deserted him, not that he had prevailed upon the unhappy miscreant to perpetrate what he had so passionately desired. But how could Judas see that Jesus was condemned? He certainly did not see it, but foreboded in his despairing mind what would be the event. But some are of opinion that this passage is referred to Judas himself, who then became sensible of his crime, and saw his condemnation impending over his head. (Origen) — For the devil does not blind his agents in such a manner, as to leave them insensible of the crime they are about to commit, till it is perpetrated. (St. Chrysostom) — Although Judas conceived a horror at his crime, and confessed it, and made satisfaction to a certain degree by restoring the money, still many essential conditions were wanting to his repentance: 1. faith in Christ, as God, as a redeemer, as the sole justifier from sin; 2. besides this, there was also wanting hopes of pardon, as in Cain, and a love of a much injured and much offended God. Hence his grief was unavailing, like that of the damned. If Judas, says an ancient Father, had had recourse to sincere repentance, and not to the halter, there was mercy in store even for the traitor. (Haydock)
Interesting!

Perhaps the despair of Judas is the result of God withdrawing His hand from Judas, and not for the shame of his crime. Meaning, Judas sinned greatly, and the wages of sin is death. The death in question is spiritual death, in which case spiritual death as a result of sin is to be seperated from God. So with this understanding, The despair of Judas was a result of a spiritual famine in his heart, being seperated completely from God, and not for his crime. After he commited his crime, God withdrew completely from Judas, (who was called by Christ to begin with) leaving Judas in total and complete darkness, that is spiritual darkness, and in despair, which is the worst sort of depression, and so seeing no alternative to the pain as a result of the absense of God, he killed himself, and so he killed himself in an unsaved state, and the wages of sin is death. When it says Judas repented himself, it could be read as his repentece was a work that he was trying to do. returning the money was a work that he did in order to get right with God. But as we learn we are not saved by works, so when Judas repented and returned the money, this was only Judas trying to save himself, and not the result of God saving him. Meaning, Judas’s work was his own, and not the result of a new resurrected soul. In which case Judas can not get himself saved by doing work because Christ has to do all the work.

Yet we read in Mark 14:21
The Son of man indeed goeth, as it is written of him: but woe to that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! good were it for that man if he had never been born.

If it was better for Judas to never be born, then this is strong language telling us Judas was in the deepest darkest part of spiritual hell for his betrayal.

Of course, God called Judas for the purpose of being betrayed. right?! Jesus needed to be arrested, needed to be scourged, needed to be crucified, in order to be resurrected. So Judas was in the plan all along as the betrayer and this was also in Gods control from the beginning.
 
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