Once Saved Always Saved

[SteveGC]

The idea of OSAS is almost always misunderstood, by both people who accept it and people who don’t. The idea is, once you’re saved, you won’t continue to happily continue to sin and you won’t renounce your faith. If you’re saved, you’re set to be a deciple forever.

Yes, this does more accurately represent the actual “teaching” of OSAS. Still flawed, because even under this concept, the only way to determine if one is saved is to live out your entire life as a disciple. One cannot determine this at the moment they claim they are saved. So, while they may agree they are not free to sin all they want, they presume they will not continue to sin (nor renounce their faith) without actually knowing if they will or not. It’s all a supposition.

 

[mdrummer5]

The real problem with this theory is how ridiculous it is: as though a person can get themselves “saved” at some Baptist church, then ten years later become an atheist, poison their wife for the insurance payout, never repent, and Jesus would still say, “Hey, great to see you! Aren’t you glad you ‘done got saved’ that one time?”

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

If Once saved always saved is true; then why would Jesus leave the Church with the ministry of reconciliation?

Why does the bible reveal that the Church has the divine given authority from Jesus to forgive sins or retain them?

2Corinthians 5:18
12 And all this is from God, who has reconciled us to himself through Christ and given us the ministry of reconciliation,

John 20:23
16 Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained."

Luke 17:3
Be on your guard! **If your brother sins, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him.
4
And if he wrongs you seven times in one day and returns to you seven times saying, ‘I am sorry,’ you should forgive him." **

Matthew 18:15
11 "If your brother sins (against you), go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have won over your brother. 16
13 If he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, so that ‘every fact may be established on the testimony of two or three witnesses.’
17
If he refuses to listen to them, tell the church. 14 If he refuses to listen even to the church, then treat him as you would a Gentile or a tax collector.
15 Amen, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

James 5:14
Is anyone among you sick? 6 He should summon the presbyters of the church, and they should pray over him and anoint (him) with oil in the name of the Lord,
15
and the prayer of faith will save the sick person, and the Lord will raise him up.** If he has committed any sins, he will be forgiven. 7
16
Therefore, confess your sins to one another and pray for one another, that you may be healed. **The fervent prayer of a righteous person is very powerful.

There is only one place in scripture that pertains to saving a person “Now”, and this is in reference to “Baptism” not an altar call;

1Peter 3:…20
who had once been disobedient while God patiently waited in the days of Noah during the building of the ark, in which a few persons, eight in all, were saved through water.
21
This prefigured baptism, which saves you now…

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

The idea of OSAS is almost always misunderstood, by both people who accept it and people who don’t. The idea is, once you’re saved, you won’t continue to happily continue to sin and you won’t renounce your faith. If you’re saved, you’re set to be a deciple forever.

That’s a good point; So OSAS should be re-worded? “Baptism saves you now”, and the Sacraments Jesus gave the Church to administer “grace” through and in Jesus Christ is for the saved in order to “work out our salvation with fear and trembling”.

The difference we are dealing with here are those who enter the kingdom of God "through baptism “which saves you now”, and those saved who continually are to follow the biblical principles to “work out your salvation with fear and trembling” (see Philipians 2:12).

**So from a biblical perspective, yes once you have entered the kingdom of God **(John 3:5 Jesus answered, "Amen, amen, I say to you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit), **by virtue of ones baptism, no one can remove this seal upon your forehead as a child of God **(Revelations 14:1 Then I looked and there was the Lamb standing on Mount Zion, 2 and with him a hundred and forty-four thousand who had his name and his Father’s name written on their foreheads), (2Corinthians 1:21 But the one who gives us security with you in Christ and who anointed us is God; 22 **he has also put his seal upon us and given the Spirit in our hearts **as a first installment).

Although lucifer himself and his followers were “illuminated” in the heavens, yet became satan and demons and lost their light. (Jude 5 I wish to remind you, although you know all things, that (the) **Lord who once saved a people from the land of Egypt later destroyed those who did not believe. 4 **6 **The angels too, who did not keep to their own domain but deserted their proper dwelling, he has kept in eternal chains, in gloom, for the judgment of the great day. **. That is why born again baptised Christians must “work out your salvation with fear and trembling”, because “the greatest fear Catholics have? Is to lose God”.

Paul also complained about removing a “thorn” from satan in his side, when God responded “my grace is sufficient”.

To believe in OSAS’vd gives the false impression or to deny satan exists, and removes one from the spiritual battle field against the evil powers and prinicipalities.

Thank God for the ministry of reconciliation;

Peace be with you

 

[ATeutonicKnight]

I think I hit him with pretty good ones, thanks to all of you. I was never that good at memorizing scripture. If only I was raised Baptist, where memorizing scripture is more important than actually LEARNING scripture.

• :knight1:

 

[po18guy]

The idea of OSAS is almost always misunderstood, by both people who accept it and people who don’t. The idea is, once you’re saved, you won’t continue to happily continue to sin and you won’t renounce your faith. If you’re saved, you’re set to be a deciple forever.

And yet, there is a mountain of scripture against even this explanation of OSAS.

 

[mangy_dog]

A Protestant on Youtube told me that once you’re saved no matter what you do you can’t be un-saved. I told this Protestant that Jesus and the apostles highly suggest otherwise in many different verses, but I’m bad at remembering them. Do you guys have any “Old Faithful’s” that you like to whip out when this arises?

Phil 2:12

 

[Robert_in_SD]

The idea of OSAS is almost always misunderstood, by both people who accept it and people who don’t. The idea is, once you’re saved, you won’t continue to happily continue to sin and you won’t renounce your faith. If you’re saved, you’re set to be a deciple forever.

How does one reconcile the above with the fundamentalist’s notion of an assurance of salvation? Does the fundamentalist camp not teach that you can be absolutely assured that when you die you will go straight to heaven after you make Jesus your personal Lord and Savior. Doesn’t the above description contemplate further work on the part of the “saved” person before one can be assured of salvation - i.e. don’t “happily sin,” etc.

I know I don’t see it the way some non-Catholics do, because to me the notion seems so contrary to what the bible teaches. Maybe it’s just me. Can you elaborate more?

Peace,
Robert

 

[hn160]

The Lutheran Church in it’s Augsburg Confession rejects OSAS. In Article VII states:
XII. Repentance
1 Our churches teach that those who have fallen after Baptism can receive forgiveness of sins whenever they are converted,
2 and that the church ought to impart absolution to those who return to repentance.
3 Properly speaking, repentance consists of these two parts:
4 one is contrition, that is, terror smiting the conscience with a knowledge of sin,
5 and the other is faith, which is born of the Gospel, or of absolution, believes that sins are forgiven for Christ’s sake, comforts the conscience, and delivers it from terror.
6 Then good works, which are the fruits of repentance, are bound to follow.
7 Our churches condemn the Anabaptists who deny that those who have once been justified can lose the Holy Spirit,
8 and also those who contend that some may attain such perfection in this life that they cannot sin.
9 Also condemned are the Novatians3 who were unwilling to absolve those who had fallen after Baptism although they returned to repentance.
10 Rejected also are those who do not teach that remission of sins comes through faith but command us to merit grace through satisfactions of our own.

 

[TimothyH]

Thank you for all of your great answers. I think I have enough to prove my point. But I do realize it’s a waste of time. I’ve battled many protestants on Youtube and no matter how hard I hit the person they still didn’t care. Protestants are a thickheaded breed, unfortunately.

Now there is really no reason to call names. Some do argue out of their own pride but a quick glance at any forum on this website shows that the same can be said of Catholics. Many are sincere in their faith and I have learned some amazing things from Protestants, including a deep love of Scripture.

Here in the deep south I get to argue all the time. I can tell you that it really isn’t about winning an argument and you will never get anyone to say, “Oh, you are right. I think I’ll be Catholic now.” Ain’t gonna happen. But what you can do is pick a few topics, learn them well, and take advantage of every opportunity to show the beauty and truth in the Catholic faith. Mortal and venial sin is a good one and most non-Catholics are truly interested in this. Mary is another, especially Mother of God and Mother of all Christians. Women seem especially interested in hearing about Mary.

What I try to do is to simply show that one or two particular Catholic doctrines are perfectly in line with scripture and how beatiful the doctrines really are. My goal is to have the non-Catholic say something like, “You know, I never thought of it that way” or “Wow, that’s really cool.” I want them to walk away thinking that those Catholics are not as crazy as they have been told. . If the spirit moves me and if I feel the person is truly seeking the truth, not just arguing from his or her pride, then I might extend an invitation to Mass. The rest is up to God.

I can tell you that for the really “Thickheaded” types, if it is the first time they have encountered a Catholic knowledgeable about his faith or if it is the first time they have encountered Bible based Catholic Apologetic truths, it can really rock their world. I know one guy who got seriously shook up when he started to question many of his beliefs in the face of Bible based Catholic apologetic truths which he had never encountered before. Like I said, God does the rest.

But if your goal is to win an argument, you have failed before you even started.

-Tim-

 

[ConsciousCoward]

I love how everyone assumed that I believe the idea of OSAS. I’ll tell you, I believe in salvation by grace through faith, as Paul said, but I don’t necessarily believe that you can’t lose your salvation by rejecting God or that because you reject God, you never had true faith at all.

I was merely pointing out that the concept is almost always misunderstood.

 

[po18guy]

I love how everyone assumed that I believe the idea of OSAS. I’ll tell you, I believe in salvation by grace through faith, as Paul said, but I don’t necessarily believe that you can’t lose your salvation by rejecting God or that because you reject God, you never had true faith at all.

I was merely pointing out that the concept is almost always misunderstood.

Well, it does help to specify one way or the other, since Christian beliefs these days are all over the map.

 

[k4evans1]

One more thing from yesterday’s gospel reading… John 12:44-50

Jesus cried out and said,
“Whoever believes in me believes not only in me
but also in the one who sent me,
and whoever sees me sees the one who sent me.
I came into the world as light,
so that everyone who believes in me might not remain in darkness.
And if anyone hears my words and does not observe them,
I do not condemn him,
for I did not come to condemn the world but to save the world.
Whoever rejects me and does not accept my words
has something to judge him: the word that I spoke,
it will condemn him on the last day,
because I did not speak on my own,
but the Father who sent me commanded me what to say and speak.
And I know that his commandment is eternal life.
So what I say, I say as the Father told me.”

I’m not sure the Catholic Church’s interpretation of this passage, but mine is that you are “saved” if you believe in Jesus and at least try to follow him. You will not continue being “saved” if you hear him, believe, and decide not to do anything about it.

Thoughts?

 

[elvisman]

I love how everyone assumed that I believe the idea of OSAS. I’ll tell you, I believe in salvation by grace through faith, as Paul said, but I don’t necessarily believe that you can’t lose your salvation by rejecting God or that because you reject God, you never had true faith at all.

I was merely pointing out that the concept is almost always misunderstood.

**Ummm, what you are espousing IS a flavor of OSAS - and the Bible itself proves you wrong as I showed you. **

You are saying that you cannot lose your salvation - yet you are implying that you don’t adhere to OSAS - is that correct? If so, that is a contradictory statement.

You have yet to respond to the Judas dilemma AND to the passages I provided (Matt. 7:19-23, 24:13, Rom. 11:22, 1 Cor. 4:4, 9:27, Heb. 10:26-27, 2 Pet. 2:20-22, Rev. 3:5.).

 

[elvisman]

One more thing from yesterday’s gospel reading… John 12:44-50

Jesus cried out and said,
“Whoever believes in me believes not only in me
but also in the one who sent me,
and whoever sees me sees the one who sent me.
I came into the world as light,
so that everyone who believes in me might not remain in darkness.
And if anyone hears my words and does not observe them,
I do not condemn him,
for I did not come to condemn the world but to save the world.
Whoever rejects me and does not accept my words
has something to judge him: the word that I spoke,
it will condemn him on the last day,
because I did not speak on my own,
but the Father who sent me commanded me what to say and speak.
And I know that his commandment is eternal life.
So what I say, I say as the Father told me.”

I’m not sure the Catholic Church’s interpretation of this passage, but mine is that you are “saved” if you believe in Jesus and at least try to follow him. You will not continue being “saved” if you hear him, believe, and decide not to do anything about it.

Thoughts?

**Correct. **
We have a free will to accept or reject God’s grace - and the Scriptures are blindingly clear about that, regardless of how our Calvinist friends twist the verses (Matt. 7:19-23, Matt. 10:22, Matt. 23:37, Matt. 24:13, 25:31–46, Luke 12:46, John 15:1-6, Rom. 11:22, Heb. 10:26-27, 2 Pet. 2:20-22, 1 Cor. 9:27, Col. 1:21-23, 1 Tim. 1:18-20, 1 Tim. 4:1, Heb. 3:6, Heb. 3:12-14, Heb. 6:4-6, 2 Pet. 3:17, 1 John 2:24, Rev. 3:5, Rev. 22:19).

 

[babylonsfalling]

A Protestant on Youtube told me that once you’re saved no matter what you do you can’t be un-saved. I told this Protestant that Jesus and the apostles highly suggest otherwise in many different verses, but I’m bad at remembering them. Do you guys have any “Old Faithful’s” that you like to whip out when this arises?

Catholics take lots of heat for not believing in OSAS but non catholics have something which is essentially the same except that it has a hugely judgmental side to it. If a fellow Christian behaves wrongly enough in some way, or even if they stubbornly disagree with you on a theological issue, it is sometimes said that the person lacks the Holy Spirit, which in turn means they were never really saved to begin with…same effect as losing one’s salvation.

And as an aside, the OSAS belief leads to greater acceptance of sin, although they always deny it. Outside the Catholic Church I’ve heard it said in reference to a particular sin, “it doesn’t matter because I’m already saved”. I have NEVER heard that in a Catholic Church and seriously doubt that I ever will.

 

[GaryTaylor]

To save our soul we have an obligation to keep the faith.

Faith is not a Blind or vague concept

Faith is an infused Supernatural Virtue that each one of us received at the moment of the Baptism.

But this infused virture does not always remain in every Baptised Soul?

In many case’s it is LOST…Some are not aware of “their” obligation to preserve this Grace and Virtue.

Each one of us has an obligation to preserve Our Faith.

The basis of Salvation is Faith! It is impossible to please God without faith. Faith alone is not enough but it is absolutly necessary for our Salvation.

If Faith is taken, you cannot find salvation untill you find Faith again!

St Thomas once pointed out that a heretic really doesn’t have Faith. Otherwise he would accept everything that God teachs, But…because he chose’s to accept this or that dogma, he really has only a kind of “OPINION” which in many ways, may, or may not agree with the articles of faith.

Because a Heretic rejects specific Dogma’s. his belief is NOT based on faith!

Where a man/woman who believes everything God teachs is… “True”, because the faithful soul knows that God who is all Holy cannot lie. And God who is all knowing cannot be mistaken.

While one might find it entertaining to amuse themselves with twisting of Biblical verse. What is said and stated, is not only said once but verified in Context throughout the Bible.

Just like the Peter and the Apostles and the Keys? Multiple verse’s. NO MISTAKE who Jesus Christ left HIS Church to. Chapter after chapter leaves us referrence?

John 12:44-50

Jesus cried out and said,
“Whoever believes in me believes not only in me
but also in the one who sent me,
and whoever sees me sees the one who sent me.
I came into the world as light,
so that everyone who believes in me might not remain in darkness.
And if anyone hears my words and does not observe them,
I do not condemn him,
for I did not come to condemn the world but to save the world.
Whoever rejects me and does not accept my words
has something to judge him: the word that I spoke,
it will condemn him on the last day,
because I did not speak on my own,
but the Father who sent me commanded me what to say and speak.
And I know that his commandment is eternal life.
So what I say, I say as the Father told me.

What would be interesting to hear is the Protestant interpretation? I for one would LOVE to hear that!

Gos Bless, Gary

 

[po18guy]

Catholics take lots of heat for not believing in OSAS but non catholics have something which is essentially the same except that it has a hugely judgmental side to it. If a fellow Christian behaves wrongly enough in some way, or even if they stubbornly disagree with you on a theological issue, it is sometimes said that the person lacks the Holy Spirit, which in turn means they were never really saved to begin with…same effect as losing one’s salvation.

And as an aside, the OSAS belief leads to greater acceptance of sin, although they always deny it. Outside the Catholic Church I’ve heard it said in reference to a particular sin, “it doesn’t matter because I’m already saved”. I have NEVER heard that in a Catholic Church and seriously doubt that I ever will.

Great points. Sin is the only thing which has the potential to eternally separate us from God. Sin is the only reason that Jesus took flesh - not to end sin, but to offer us an escape from its crushing weight. To offer us His perfect example of sinlessness, so that we might emulate Him. But sin is not a point in time, it is a condition that is life-long. Each time we sin we grieve our Lord. Can we seriously expect to enter heaven after a life of sin? What will we hear in response to our claim that we were “saved”? What will we hear in response to our plaintive cry that we offered the “sinner’s prayer” (before additional decades of sinning)?

Each and every letter than Paul wrote about persevering, struggling, continuing, fighting the good fight - he wrote to those who were already baptized (saved). Paul did not, and does not teach that we are always saved. The only possible way that we are always saved is if we “always” remain in a state of grace with God. But, this is essentially impossible, given our fallen state. It leaves me incredulous that those who teach “total depravity” also seem to cling to OSAS. In a move of incredible, oh, I don’t know (hope?), they ascribe all the work to God, and become seemingly passive partners in salvation. God calls us to “repent”. It is not up to God to repent, it is up to us! The path to hell is travelled by the passive.

And this does not consider the word of the Great Judge Himself, our Lord Jesus Christ, in Whose judgment seat we shall sit on that day. According to Jesus, we must “remain in”, “abide in” Him. We must “persevere”, “endure to the end”. We must “bear fruit” or we will be “cut off and thrown into the fire”. Our Lord commands us to “eat my flesh” and “drink my Blood” or else we have “no life in you”.

To hold to OSAS, a tiny fraction of scripture must be focused on, and a veritable mountain of scripture must be ignored. The spirit of antichrist, being eternal, is alive and well and leading “even the elect astray, if that were possible”.

 

[Robert_in_SD]

I love how everyone assumed that I believe the idea of OSAS. I’ll tell you, I believe in salvation by grace through faith, as Paul said, but I don’t necessarily believe that you can’t lose your salvation by rejecting God or that because you reject God, you never had true faith at all.

I was merely pointing out that the concept is almost always misunderstood.

Sorry. I misunderstood your post. I thought you were trying to clarify OSAS. Oops.

 

[guanophore]

A Protestant on Youtube told me that once you’re saved no matter what you do you can’t be un-saved. I told this Protestant that Jesus and the apostles highly suggest otherwise in many different verses, but I’m bad at remembering them. Do you guys have any “Old Faithful’s” that you like to whip out when this arises?

The Protestant is correct, but not in the way he thinks. The Apostles taught that salvation begins when we are baptized(justified) , that we work out our salvation throughout this life(sanctified), and it is consummated after we depart this life and enter the judgement. At the end of this life, those who are in right relationship with God are purified for heaven(glorified).

Once a person is saved (enters heaven or is preparing to enter heaven) they can never be “unsaved”. Jesus taught that they are kept eternally by His grace.