Once Saved Always Saved?

[Sig]

This response is quite telling, Sig.

Changing your polemic to the canon of scripture indicates to me that you realize you’re not making any headway with me against OSAS, and you aren’t. I’m as firm in my conviction concerning its truthfulness as I’ve ever been.

Now if that’s sufficient reason for you to complain to the mods and have me banned so be it.

That’s for the lurkers as well, unless it gets deleted.

 

[PRmerger]

Which passage? There are so many passages by so many inspired writers that all say man will be judged by works.

Again, a great question to be filed under:
Things that make you go

 

[PRmerger]

Changing your polemic to the canon of scripture indicates to me that you realize you’re not making any headway with me against OSAS, and you aren’t. I’m as firm in my conviction concerning its truthfulness as I’ve ever been.

Now if that’s sufficient reason for you to complain to the mods and have me banned so be it.

That’s for the lurkers as well, unless it gets deleted.

Oh, I haven’t complained to the mods. :nope:

As I stated, you need to be here.

You’re just getting in over your head, so I am giving you great leeway.

 

[Sig]

Again, a great question to be filed under:
Things that make you go

Jesus says believers don’t come under judgment, PR (Jn 5:24), and everyone knows that Catholics don’t believe that “all” really means “all.”

A believer’s works will be judged (1 Cor 3:13-15), but the believer does not come into judgment.

 

[Cat_Herder]

(Edited)

I’m as firm in my conviction concerning its truthfulness as I’ve ever been.

By which you mean that you are firm in Luther’s conviction that justified man is a snow-covered dung heap. Well, speak for yourself.

 

[PRmerger]

Three years ago I was a Protestant lurking on CAF looking for answers. And yes, I started asking questions like that… and the rest is history.

So people who browse this thread in the future will judge Sig and his efforts to defend Calvinism, or whatever he was trying to defend, by all of the questions he was unable to answer and all of his waffling on what actually causes salvation.

Interesting! I had no idea, Cat! So it was the CAFs that actually assisted the Holy Spirit in your conversion?

Wow.

That’s what I’m saying, friends!

Keep the Protestants here. There’s way too many things that cannot be answered by their pastor’s fallible preaching and their own personal interpretations.

And the intellectually and spiritually honest ones will come to the knowledge of truth and proclaim with their mouths that the Catholic Church is the Body of Christ.

 

[PRmerger]

(Edited)

By which you mean that you are firm in Luther’s conviction that justified man is a snow-covered dung heap. Well, speak for yourself.

Yes. This is another interesting concept Protestants can’t answer. And no one has ever posed it to them most likely, until coming to the CAFs. How can God see anything but what is? If we truly are dung, how can God only “see” Christ?

 

[Cat_Herder]

Jesus says believers don’t come under judgment, PR (Jn 5:24), and everyone knows that Catholics don’t believe that “all” really means “all.”

A believer’s works will be judged (1 Cor 3:13-15), but the believer does not come into judgment.

If a person is charged with murder and tried, but is acquitted and therefore does not come into judgment, does it follow that there is no trial?

 

[Cat_Herder]

Yes. This is another interesting concept Protestants can’t answer. And no one has ever posed it to them most likely, until coming to the CAFs. How can God see anything but what is? If we truly are dung, how can God only “see” Christ?

I can’t believe that anyone would spend so much time and energy defending the proposition that he is a dung heap… it boggles the mind.

 

[Cruxis117]

Jesus says believers don’t come under judgment, PR (Jn 5:24), and everyone knows that Catholics don’t believe that “all” really means “all.”

A believer’s works will be judged (1 Cor 3:13-15), but the believer does not come into judgment.

We don’t? Hmm. Last time I checked…

[BIBLEDRB]1 Timothy 2:1-4[/BIBLEDRB]

We believe that when God wills that all men be saved, we believe his word.

With regards to OSAS, two things come to my mind:

One, that Romans 11:20-23 shows clearly that we (Christians, believers) if we don’t remain in the Lord’s kindness, will be cut off.

Likewise, because Scripture is never superfluous, we know that when St. Paul tells us that if we (the elect, Christians, believers), deny Christ, he will deny us. And that if we are faithless, he will remain faithful, for he cannot deny himself.

If you’re wondering where I’m getting this, look no further:

[BIBLEDRB]2 Timothy 2:10-13[/BIBLEDRB]

We must remember that ultimately, Christians must always be wary, because they can fall out of grace (Galatians 5:4). OSAS is unbiblical.

 

[Sig]

We don’t? Hmm. Last time I checked…

So all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God (Rom 3:23)?

 

[Cat_Herder]

So all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God (Rom 3:23)?

No. Little babies haven’t sinned, nor have young children below the age of reason. For that matter, neither has Jesus, or His Mother.

As I pointed out, Enoch and Elijah were raptured. How can that be, if the wages of sin is death? Does that mean that they too were without sin?

 

[Cruxis117]

So all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God (Rom 3:23)?

I think the problem is that there is a contextual issue between Romans 3 and 1 Timothy 2 that we have to take into account in order to understand why they are different. Romans 3 (specifically verse 23) is referring to humanity’s fallen nature. At this point, in order to remain theologically consistent we would have to hold to that the Lord (as well as our Lady) were not affected by Original Sin. Whereas we don’t run into that issue in 1 Timothy 2, where we have to take into account Jesus in the way of “all”. Romans 3:23 would be the exception, not the norm, when we understand the word ‘all’.

 

[Cruxis117]

No. Little babies haven’t sinned, nor have young children below the age of reason. For that matter, neither has Jesus, or His Mother.

As I pointed out, Enoch and Elijah were raptured. How can that be, if the wages of sin is death? Does that mean that they too were without sin?

Good point!

 

[Sig]

I think the problem is that there is a contextual issue between Romans 3 and 1 Timothy 2 that we have to take into account in order to understand why they are different. Romans 3 (specifically verse 23) is referring to humanity’s fallen nature. At this point, in order to remain theologically consistent we would have to hold to that the Lord (as well as our Lady) were not affected by Original Sin. Whereas we don’t run into that issue in 1 Timothy 2, where we have to take into account Jesus in the way of “all”. Romans 3:23 would be the exception, not the norm, when we understand the word ‘all’.

Of course, of course.

Rom 3:23 is the specific verse I had in mind when I planted my tongue firmly in my cheek and remarked that Catholics don’t believe that “all” means “all.”

Thanks for the confirmation that I’m right in that. As usual.

 

[Cat_Herder]

Rom 3:23 is the specific verse I had in mind when I planted my tongue firmly in my cheek and remared that Catholics don’t believe that “all” means “all.”

[BIBLEDRB]Romans 3:10-11[/BIBLEDRB]

Since you think Paul was addressing everyone who would ever exist as you say he does in verse 3:23, I guess that means you don’t seek for God. And we can definitely tell that you don’t understand.

Paul is addressing a specific audience. When I tell you that “all your base are belong to us,” I do not mean the bases that you ran on when you played little league baseball. I mean the bases that you have right now.

Move “Sig” for great justice.

 

[PRmerger]

Jesus says believers don’t come under judgment, PR (Jn 5:24), and everyone knows that Catholics don’t believe that “all” really means “all.”

Huh? When did I mention anything about the word “all”?

Oh. Were you responding to Cat Herder’s post then?

Because CH posted this:

Which passage? There are so many passages by so many inspired writers that all say man will be judged by works.

and then I responded here:

Again, a great question to be filed under:
Things that make you go

So I think you mistakenly were responding to Cat Herder’s post maybe?

 

[Sig]

Huh? When did I mention anything about the word “all”?

Oh. Were you responding to Cat Herder’s post then?

Because CH posted this:

and then I responded here:

So I think you mistakenly were responding to Cat Herder’s post maybe?

There was no mistake in my reply, dear. I’m a very aware fellow.

 

[Cat_Herder]

There was no mistake in my reply, dear. I’m a very aware fellow.

Aware of what? That Luther and Calvin have cast all men as dung heaps? Or that you have a pile of 20 or so unanswered questions from Catholics that you are ignoring?

 

[PRmerger]

Aware of what? That Luther and Calvin have cast all men as dung heaps? Or that you have a pile of 20 or so unanswered questions from Catholics that you are ignoring?

I think he inadvertently responded to a post he did not intend to.

At any rate, it would be helpful if another Protestant came to this thread, to provide a reprieve. I am hoping that perhaps another Protestant friend will be recruited.