Once saved always saved ?

[rinnie]

Luther is not talking about Judas, or the unregenerate. He is talking to Melanchthon, in a letter, encouraging him to continue to preach the Gospel.

He says in the letter, in many ways reminding me of St. Paul’s complaint about himself, that the wrong that he would not do, that he does, and the good he would do, that he does not.

Even though even our good works, our preaching of the Gospel (in Melanchthon’s case), has the vestiges of our sin in them, continue to preach the Gospel, continue to try to live the godly life, and depend on the Savior to forgive when we confess, and lead us into life everlasting.
Don’t let the knowledge of our sin keep us from doing His commands:

Amen.

Jon

Hi Jon, I was just commenting on the scripture that was written.

How it said all sin is forgivable. Just thought I would comment on that is all.

Speaking of sin, I think we can both agree we are taught that no matter how bad we sin, as long as we repent and ask God to forgive us, and are truly sorry, his grace is much more greater then our human sin.

But if we reject Christ, of course we cannot repent, and then our sin will give us the eternal death that is spoken about in the bible.

 

[rinnie]

Thank you for the question. I don’t recall Paul ever saying he wasn’t sure he was saved…In fact, he said: “Nothing can separate us from the love of God.” Jesus said that he would allow no one who had out their trust in Him to slip away.
Now, I am not in a position to judge another person’s status of salvation. Neither is any other believer. But YES, you should be able to KNOW you are saved, if you have faith and it is proved by your actions. If you see another believer producing fruit, you can infer that they are a believer.
It is important to understand that “knowing” is more of a knowledge based on evidence rather than absolute knowledge, which only God has. But it is definitely not capricious on behalf of God. That’s a major thing that differentiates a Christian from Muslims, Jehovah’s Witnesses, or many other religions/cults, who are wholly reliant on a capricious God to decide whether they are saved.
Our God gives us more confidence than that; if he didn’t, why even try to follow Him? Your odds would be just as good without trying.

In Phi. 2:12 St Paul states work out your salvation with fear and trembling.

But this scripture I believe puts it more clear.

1 Cor 4: 4-7 I am not conscious of anything against me, BUT I do not thereby stand ACQUITTED!

Then he continues to tell us to not make any judgement God will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will manifest the motives of our hearts.

Guess you could put us Catholic’s with the other Religions and cults on not having that assurance.

Even our Holy Father here on earth the Pope will not boast of his salvation. He also believes it is God at the last moment of his life who will make the decision on his Salvation.

 

[Jon_S_1]

In Phi. 2:12 St Paul states work out your salvation with fear and trembling.

But this scripture I believe puts it more clear.

1 Cor 4: 4-7 I am not conscious of anything against me, BUT I do not thereby stand ACQUITTED!

Then he continues to tell us to not make any judgement God will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will manifest the motives of our hearts.

Guess you could put us Catholic’s with the other Religions and cults on not having that assurance.

Even our Holy Father here on earth the Pope will not boast of his salvation. He also believes it is God at the last moment of his life who will make the decision on his Salvation.

WOW!

My conscience is clear, but that does not make me innocent. It is the Lord who judges me. Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait until the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of the heart. At that time each will receive their praise from God. (1 Corinthians 4:4, 5

Cannot get much clearer than that regarding This issue thanks for sharing!

 

[JonNC]

Hi Jon, I was just commenting on the scripture that was written.

How it said all sin is forgivable. Just thought I would comment on that is all.

Speaking of sin, I think we can both agree we are taught that no matter how bad we sin, as long as we repent and ask God to forgive us, and are truly sorry, his grace is much more greater then our human sin.

But if we reject Christ, of course we cannot repent, and then our sin will give us the eternal death that is spoken about in the bible.

Agreed

Jon

 

[rinnie]

WOW!

My conscience is clear, but that does not make me innocent. It is the Lord who judges me. Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait until the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of the heart. At that time each will receive their praise from God. (1 Corinthians 4:4, 5

Cannot get much clearer than that regarding This issue thanks for sharing!

You got it. But with that said there is nothing better for a good nights sleep then a clear conscience.

I always wondered if when we meet God if he takes us around and shows us how we may have hurt someone, although we may not have meant to etc.

I think it just goes to show us, how far from being Christlike we all are, and how we fall so short from being worthy to enter into eternal life with Christ. I thank him everyday for being such a merciful and loving God, and for comming here to pay for our sins, so that we can be forgiven, and for givng us his wonderful grace to continue to try to be more like him.

Just think how just our thoughts can hurt us. We all probally have many negative or hurtfull thoughts throughout the day we even forget about. Lets HOPE God chooses to let em slide also.

 

[benjohnson]

I always wondered if when we meet God if he takes us around and shows us how we may have hurt someone, although we may not have meant to etc.

I’m pretty sure that in Catholic theology, this happens to all of us in the Last Judgement in that we see how our actions distort God’s creation.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Last_Judgment#Catholicism

Suffice to say, I’ll be embarrassed on that day!

 

[Jon_S_1]

You got it. But with that said there is nothing better for a good nights sleep then a clear conscience.

I always wondered if when we meet God if he takes us around and shows us how we may have hurt someone, although we may not have meant to etc.

I think it just goes to show us, how far from being Christlike we all are, and how we fall so short from being worthy to enter into eternal life with Christ. I thank him everyday for being such a merciful and loving God, and for comming here to pay for our sins, so that we can be forgiven, and for givng us his wonderful grace to continue to try to be more like him.

Just think how just our thoughts can hurt us. We all probally have many negative or hurtfull thoughts throughout the day we even forget about. Lets HOPE God chooses to let em slide also.

Yes, that is why I think the Church’s teaching on Venial and Mortal Sin is so important. When I was a OSAS Evangelical I didn’t have that and it always felt illogical and unresolved.

 

[rinnie]

I’m pretty sure that in Catholic theology, this happens to all of us in the Last Judgement in that we see how our actions distort God’s creation.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Last_Judgment#Catholicism

Suffice to say, I’ll be embarrassed on that day!

Yeek I better keep praying my rosary and asking for the Blessed Mother to interceed for me and help me be ALOT better person.

Everyone reading this, you prayers would be appreciated too!

 

[rinnie]

Yes, that is why I think the Church’s teaching on Venial and Mortal Sin is so important. When I was a OSAS Evangelical I didn’t have that and it always felt illogical and unresolved.

Thank God for the Sacrament of Confession huh! I just wish others could see this, and what a great gift this is, instead of seeing it as a burden on us.

Especially when it takes much burden off.

 

[rinnie]

We were dead in our sin and God made us alive in Christ Jesus.

I feel a need to elaborate some on this if I may.

Yes when Jesus came and died on the cross he saved us from Original sin once and for all. Over done, its gone.

But the problem is actual sin. The sin we do and continue to do. Now Jesus did not take that sin away for us. Did he make it possible for it to be taken away? Oh Yeah.

But he said we must Confess that sin, and repent. Now if you are in a state of mortal sin you are indeed dead right at this moment in that sin. Did God make us alive in Jesus Christ for that actual sin we are in at this moment. No he did not.

Did he make it POSSIBLE to be forgiven?? Oh Yes he did! But how? He made it POSSIBLE by his death, and paying for all sin. But we have our part. Its not paid for until we do a number of things.

1. We confess that sin.
2. We repent that sin.
3. We must be not only wiped clean, we must stay Clean. That is the hardest part of all

To lose that desire to ever repeat the sin again. Thats when with much grace, prayer, and mercy given to us by Christ and by his death it is possible in this world.

This is where many people have such a inaccurate understanding of sin. Many have no idea the difference between Mortal Sin, Venial Sin, and Actual Sin and Original Sin.

 

[Jon_S_1]

I feel a need to elaborate some on this if I may.

Yes when Jesus came and died on the cross he saved us from Original sin once and for all. Over done, its gone.

But the problem is actual sin. The sin we do and continue to do. Now Jesus did not take that sin away for us. Did he make it possible for it to be taken away? Oh Yeah.

But he said we must Confess that sin, and repent. Now if you are in a state of mortal sin you are indeed dead right at this moment in that sin. Did God make us alive in Jesus Christ for that actual sin we are in at this moment. No he did not.

Did he make it POSSIBLE to be forgiven?? Oh Yes he did! But how? He made it POSSIBLE by his death, and paying for all sin. But we have our part. Its not paid for until we do a number of things.

1. We confess that sin.
2. We repent that sin.
3. We must be not only wiped clean, we must stay Clean. That is the hardest part of all

To lose that desire to ever repeat the sin again. Thats when with much grace, prayer, and mercy given to us by Christ and by his death it is possible in this world.

This is where many people have such a inaccurate understanding of sin. Many have no idea the difference between Mortal Sin, Venial Sin, and Actual Sin and Original Sin.

What about Baptism??

 

[jericho777]

So that eliminates free-will in its entirety? Again…who forces or encourages people to sin,if there exist no free-will?

You never have to tell someone how to sin. Even from the youngest age we see sin revealed because it is in their nature. But you have to tell people how to be good.

Without Gods grace we are hopelessly lost.

 

[SteveVH]

What about Baptism??

Baptism wipes away all sin, both original and actual, venial and mortal. I believe rinnie is speaking of sins committed subsequent to Baptism.

 

[jericho777]

I feel a need to elaborate some on this if I may.

Yes when Jesus came and died on the cross he saved us from Original sin once and for all. Over done, its gone.

But the problem is actual sin. The sin we do and continue to do. Now Jesus did not take that sin away for us. Did he make it possible for it to be taken away? Oh Yeah.

But he said we must Confess that sin, and repent. Now if you are in a state of mortal sin you are indeed dead right at this moment in that sin. Did God make us alive in Jesus Christ for that actual sin we are in at this moment. No he did not.

Did he make it POSSIBLE to be forgiven?? Oh Yes he did! But how? He made it POSSIBLE by his death, and paying for all sin. But we have our part. Its not paid for until we do a number of things.

1. We confess that sin.
2. We repent that sin.
3. We must be not only wiped clean, we must stay Clean. That is the hardest part of all

To lose that desire to ever repeat the sin again. Thats when with much grace, prayer, and mercy given to us by Christ and by his death it is possible in this world.

This is where many people have such a inaccurate understanding of sin. Many have no idea the difference between Mortal Sin, Venial Sin, and Actual Sin and Original Sin.

We are unable to respond to the gospel without first receiving grace. It is the Spirit who makes alive to Christ.

Our problem is we still have our regenerated man living in flesh. We will battle the flesh until the day we die. As St Paul said in Romans 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

 

[JonNC]

=jericho777;10808949]We are unable to respond to the gospel without first receiving grace. It is the Spirit who makes alive to Christ.

Hence, the need for infant Baptism, where we receive His grace. We receive remission of sins. We receive the Holy Spirit at Baptism.

Our problem is we still have our regenerated man living in flesh. We will battle the flesh until the day we die. As St Paul said in Romans 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

Hence, the need for confession/Absolution, and the Lord’s Supper.

Jon

 

[Isaiah45_9]

Hence, the need for infant Baptism, where we receive His grace. We receive remission of sins. We receive the Holy Spirit at Baptism.

Hence, the need for confession/Absolution, and the Lord’s Supper.

Jon

Amen!

 

[rinnie]

What about Baptism??

What about Baptism? Baptism wipes out Original Sin, Once and for all. We are cleansed from it.

See thats the problme, Protestants say all the time what kind of sin can an infant have. The answer is simple Original Sin we are all born with it.

Go to the O,T. Why do you believe there was people being held in hades? Simple Original Sin, It was Christ who went down after his death and the cross and released them from original sin.

With Original Sin you could not enter heaven. Now by his death it is wiped clean at our baptism.

 

[rinnie]

We are unable to respond to the gospel without first receiving grace. It is the Spirit who makes alive to Christ.

Our problem is we still have our regenerated man living in flesh. We will battle the flesh until the day we die. As St Paul said in Romans 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.

True, All good things are possible because of the Grace of God. I agree.

Sure will will battle sin until the day we die. But it is by grace and prayer and using our own free will given to us by God to pick him over sin.

But you must remember. Only WE choose to sin. In the RCC we call that choosing us over Christ. What we want, and what Christ wants.

Remember what the word of God is. In simple terms. There is no sin out there that we cannot overcome with our own freewill. And of course the grace of God.

Grace trumps sin. Just like good overpowers evil.

 

[mayogirl25]

I would like to ask a current or former person that believe(s) in osas

How many sins must one commit to know they are not saved or how big of a sin(s)

My whives cousin has been married 2x and currently has a “boyfriend” and she is “Christian”
My whives other cousin also has a live in “boyfriend” and she is “saved”
These are only 2 of hundreds of examples I know

This is very confusing

Not at all confusing. When a person is “saved” it is just for that moment in time. If that person then goes out and kills someone then quite obviously, the “saving” is null and void. Quite obviously, that is an extreme example but try to equate it with the Catholic sacrament of Reconciliation (Confession). One confesses their sins to the priest and is given absolution and told to “sin no more”. Quite obviously, if the person confessing is living in sin then that person is going back to sinning. Your wife’s cousin is living in sin with her boyfriend. Your wife’s other cousin is living in sin with her boyfriend. Etc., etc., etc.

 

[mackbrislawn]

Luther is not talking about Judas, or the unregenerate. He is talking to Melanchthon, in a letter, encouraging him to continue to preach the Gospel.

He says in the letter, in many ways reminding me of St. Paul’s complaint about himself, that the wrong that he would not do, that he does, and the good he would do, that he does not.

Even though even our good works, our preaching of the Gospel (in Melanchthon’s case), has the vestiges of our sin in them, continue to preach the Gospel, continue to try to live the godly life, and depend on the Savior to forgive when we confess, and lead us into life everlasting.
Don’t let the knowledge of our sin keep us from doing His commands:

Amen.

Jon

Hi Jon,

In other words, the devil is trying to get us to despair when he reminds us of our sins? However, Luther says in order to counter this, no need to despair even when confronted with the enormity of our sins, but keep on plugging away anyway?

So, Luther’s words are not, as some have inferred, advice to go ahead and sin some more and enjoy it, since our sins do not affect our relationship with God?

Of course Catholics also rely the Savior to forgive us when we confess. although Jesus says to go and sin no more. If we do sin willingly after that, relying on His forgiveness, Catholics call it presumption–not a good practice. Because to many it sounds as if Luther is negating Jesus’ command to go and sin no more. But that is not really Luther’s point after all?

Mack