Once saved, Always saved?

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I had a thought that maybe someone could present the protestant view on…

If you believe in Jesus and you give your life to him that you will go to heaven.

Didn’t Judas believe in Jesus and gave his life to him yet he didn’t end up in heaven. Wouldn’t that mean that you have some part in your salvation?
 
Love_2B_an_EM:
Didn’t Judas believe in Jesus and gave his life to him yet he didn’t end up in heaven. Wouldn’t that mean that you have some part in your salvation?
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Is this so? I thought that the teaching is that we don’t know who is not in heaven.
 
Love_2B_an_EM:
I had a thought that maybe someone could present the protestant view on…

If you believe in Jesus and you give your life to him that you will go to heaven.

Didn’t Judas believe in Jesus and gave his life to him yet he didn’t end up in heaven. Wouldn’t that mean that you have some part in your salvation?
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The rebuttal to this by the OSAS would be:
By betraying Jesus, Judas showed that he did not give his life over to Christ. His actions bear out that he was never saved in the first place.
 
mark a:
Is this so? I thought that the teaching is that we don’t know who is not in heaven.
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I don’t know. Does anyone know what the Catholic teaching is on this? I saw the following on a web site but it wasn’t from an official Catholic site.
The New Testament does not tell us in so many words that any particular person is in hell. But several statements about Judas can hardly be interpreted otherwise. Jesus says that he has kept all those whom the Father has given him except the son of perdition (John 17:12). At another point Jesus calls Judas a devil (John 6:70), and yet again says of him: “It would be better for that man if he had never been born” (Matthew 26:24; Mark 14:21). If Judas were among the saved, these statements could hardly be true.
 
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b_justb:
The rebuttal to this by the OSAS would be:
By betraying Jesus, Judas showed that he did not give his life over to Christ. His actions bear out that he was never saved in the first place.
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Who is OSAS? I was just posing the question because I’ve heard from a couple of protestant preachers…
Lutheran: If you believe in Jesus that you will go to heaven.
Evangelical: Confess your sins and give your life to Jesus and you are guaranteed a spot in heaven right now. It can’t be taken away.

If Judas did go to hell, it would prove both of these statement false.
 
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b_justb:
The rebuttal to this by the OSAS would be:
By betraying Jesus, Judas showed that he did not give his life over to Christ. His actions bear out that he was never saved in the first place.
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If his actions bear that he was never saved in the first place then the whole theology of being OSAS is refuted. This is the problem with saying you are OSAS.

Surely Judas did have faith that Jesus was the Christ, but the rebuttal by the OSAS would show that we certainly are not saved by sola fide.
 
OSAS from a Protestant view…

John 3:16 (KJV of course;) ) “16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”

Look, it’s in black and white. “whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life”. You believe in Jesus, you are “saved” and have absolute assurance you will go to heaven! God does not lie does He? No He never does. He wrote it in His Word that you ARE saved by faith alone when you believeth in Him!

Rom 3:28 “28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.”

We are saved by “faith alone!” You see, it’s right there in black and white in His Word. Is He lieing to you? Of course not! You’re saved when you believeth in Him.

Eph 2:8-9 “8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.”

God said we are “saved” once and for all by “faith alone”! NOTHING else is required.

Don’t believe the lies inveted by the papist stooges, they had since 313 A.D. when Constantine founded the pagan church of Rome to invent lies to mislead you.

+++++++++++++++

I made the Protestant point as short and sweet as I could.

PS. I know the Protestant side is wrong, I only give it so you can see it. It is easily proven wrong if one just takes the scales off ones eyes and reads Scripture, all of it, in context and not one verse or word (out of context) means all.

By the way, not all Protestants believe in Faith Alone. Many do, but not all.
 
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RCCDefender:
If his actions bear that he was never saved in the first place then the whole theology of being OSAS is refuted. This is the problem with saying you are OSAS.

Surely Judas did have faith that Jesus was the Christ, but the rebuttal by the OSAS would show that we certainly are not saved by sola fide.
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I agree. I was posting from the point of view of OSAS; not my own.
 
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b_justb:
The rebuttal to this by the OSAS would be:
By betraying Jesus, Judas showed that he did not give his life over to Christ. His actions bear out that he was never saved in the first place.
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This is the standard response - which of course illustrates the GIANT exception that destroys any assurance of salvation that protestants claim they have.
 
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b_justb:
The rebuttal to this by the OSAS would be:
By betraying Jesus, Judas showed that he did not give his life over to Christ. His actions bear out that he was never saved in the first place.
Click to expand...
Right, that would be their rebuttal. Which means that OSAS may be true for them but it is a truth that is of no use, because nobody can ever know if they, or anybody else, are among the OS in the first place.
 
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Malachi4U:
Don’t believe the lies inveted by the papist stooges, they had since 313 A.D. when Constantine founded the pagan church of Rome to invent lies to mislead you.
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Do you believe this part is wrong as well???
 
AAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!

ok now that I’ve gotten that out… (sorry - you have to understand the middle/highschool I went to - the almost half who were Baptists arguing OSAS - us Wesleyan Arminian tradition folks who were the other half (because it was our denominational school) arguing for the possibility of “backsliding” - and the very few Calvinists (I guess there were some) never said anything)

One - as far as I know it is BAPTISTS not PROTESTANTS who believe in Once Saved Always Saved (and even they disagree on what it means - I know I’ve gone to a Baptist church and had Baptist friends…)

There is even of course a difference between OSAS and the idea that the Calvinists have about predestination - ultimately it comes across the same (that if you’re a Christian you’re going to heaven) but theologically it is very different… If anyone on here once was or knows of any denomination other than Baptists that believe OSAS - I’d be interested to know… I grew up kind of sheltered - never even heard of Calvinism until I was in highschool and the first time I was told about it I was convinced my teacher who told me must be a member of some very far out there denomination… LOL - I just never was exposed to it - never was exposed to any of the mainline semi liturgical Protestant denominations either… can you tell I live in the “Bible Belt”??

and I just feel that sometimes on this board that OSAS gets thrown about as something that all Protestants believe…when its not… (and I know no one means to insinuate that - but the way everyone talks about OSAS all the time on here you would think it was more than just the Baptists!)

and despite the fact that I’m converting - I still feel the need to defend the Protestants who believe in backsliding =)
 
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VociMike:
Once Saved, Always Saved. The perseverence of the saints (the ‘P’ in TULIP).
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I would disagree there - since the OSAS people I know (Baptists - as I just posted I don’t know of any other denominations who believe this one particular specific theology) do not believe in predestination…

In my understanding of the P in tulip - it is that God has decided whether one is elect or not and if you are then you have eternal security - “Since God has decreed the elect, and they cannot resist grace, they are unconditionally and eternally secure in that election”

Where as the OSAS folk believe that it is still your choice to become saved…
 
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Malachi4U:
OSAS from a Protestant view…

You believe in Jesus, you are “saved” and have absolute assurance you will go to heaven!
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When was this doctrine first developed and preached?

pax et bonum
Whit
 
I don’t think this could always work…

For example:

James accepted Jesus at age 12, was baptised, etc. At age 17, he had stopped going to church except maybe 4 times a year…

Then at age 18, he decided to go to medical school.

He was required to learn how to perform abortions.

He does dozens of abortions in his career, only caring about the money he’s making, forgetting his heritage (accepting Jesus). He finally dies at the ripe old age of 83.

Would he be saved? I think he’d have to have a MAJOR stop in purgatory because abortion takes a human life and well, that violated the commandment “Thou Shall not Kill”.

So, I don’t think he’d still be “automatically” saved.

Unless on his death bed, he’s sorry for aborting the babies whose lives he took…

this is just an example of how it doesn’t work
 
not according to their own theology - either OSAS or Calvinism either one would say that he was probably not saved… OSAS I know would say he wasn’t saved to begin with, and I would think along the same lines Calvinism would say that he just thought he was elect and he wasn’t…

I know - it doesn’t really make sense - they have to put those kinds of qualifiers on there themselves to make their belief work…
 
Love_2B_an_EM:
If you believe in Jesus and you give your life to him that you will go to heaven.

Didn’t Judas believe in Jesus and gave his life to him
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No. No OSAS supporter would say that Judas ever had saving faith. And those of us who don’t believe in OSAS have no ground for affirming that he ever did. We simply don’t know.

That assumes that we know Judas is in hell. I don’t think that we know this, and I believe the Catholic Church would generally agree with me today (in fact I’ve learned to think this largely from Catholic sources). But conservative Protestants would be more willing to make such a judgment, and I think traditionally Catholics would have as well.

Edwin
 
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