once saved always saved?

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John_Paul_III

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Protestants-

For argument sake lets say you are right, if ask Jesus into your life, you are saved. When someone ask you if you died right now would you go to Heaven? You would say yes because you asked Jesus into your heart and asked him to forgive your sins. Once saved always saved is your doctrine.

What happens if you are trully sorry for your sins, but you do not repent? You personally ask Jesus to forgive you, but you continue your sinful ways, what happens when you die?
 
John Paul III:
Protestants-

For argument sake lets say you are right, if ask Jesus into your life, you are saved. When someone ask you if you died right now would you go to Heaven? You would say yes because you asked Jesus into your heart and asked him to forgive your sins. Once saved always saved is your doctrine.

What happens if you are trully sorry for your sins, but you do not repent? You personally ask Jesus to forgive you, but you continue your sinful ways, what happens when you die?
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When you ask Jesus into your life that is where He is, in your life.
As God of Our Salvation Jesus is more than able to work in our lives to save us from those sins that beset us.
 
Regarding the issue of whether Christians have an “absolute” assurance of salvation, regardless of their actions, consider this warning Paul gave: “See then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness; otherwise you too will be cut off” (Rom. 11:22; see also Heb. 10:26–29, 2 Pet. 2:20–21).
 
Be mindfull also that Christ is the author and the finisher of your faith.
 
I have always understood that “staying in his kindness” meant not rejecting him and continuing to believe.
Not defending the once saved alaways saved side, I am not actually sure I believe this anymore, but as I said, when I read this verse this is what my understanding was.
Hope this helps the poster in answering his question.
Allie 🙂
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awalt:
Regarding the issue of whether Christians have an “absolute” assurance of salvation, regardless of their actions, consider this warning Paul gave: “See then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness; otherwise you too will be cut off” (Rom. 11:22; see also Heb. 10:26–29, 2 Pet. 2:20–21).
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SolaChristo:
Be mindfull also that Christ is the author and the finisher of your faith.
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Christ finishes our faith through our works, right? According to St. James 2:22, referring to Abraham: You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by works . . . So in the OSAS schema, evidence of faith would be fruitful works, and “said faith” would not be faith at all. Is that accurate? That would be very little different from the Catholic position.

Where OSAS breaks down, it seems, is when a person who has been “saved,” and has received absolute assurance of salvation, has been convicted of sin by the Holy Spirit, has repented, has turned to Christ, and is living a new life suddenly has an “oops” – I think of someone like Jimmy Swaggart. (Not sure Swaggart believed OSAS, but he’s a good example of the one-shot salvation theory.) No way am I prepared to believe that Swaggart’s faith was merely a “said faith” or that he was a life-long hypocrite. But that would be the only way to explain what happened – or would it?

The corollary stumbling block for Catholics in some iterations of OSAS is the idea that being saved prevents a person from ever sinning again. (May I presume that most versions of OSAS do not believe that?)

So the follow-up question would be: Does post-salvation sin count against the soul? Or is it automatically forgiven or simply ignored or “covered” by the mercy of Christ? I.e.: eternal security?

Question 3: I have heard some people say that they believe in eternal security but do not believe that OSAS. How prevalent is that?
 
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SolaChristo:
When you ask Jesus into your life that is where He is, in your life.
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Does that mean that all babies and children who die before they can ask Jesus into their lives go to hell?

If they don’t go to hell then they must be saved. If OSAS is true, that means everybody is saved (at conception, I guess), and nobody has to “ask Jesus into your life” to be saved.

I’ve never heard a good clarification of this question from the Protestant side.
 
With Christ in your life you become ever mindfull of unrepentant sin. Jesus never leaves you or does he foresake you. The Helper will help the believer to all truth.
What those who speak against OSAS fail to relize is that God is soveriegn and once your life is His no one is able to take you out of His hand.
A person can make a willfull decision to foreske God and turn away from Him. In that case the person has foresaken God and left Him and made a decision not to be saved.
 
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SolaChristo:
With Christ in your life you become ever mindfull of unrepentant sin. Jesus never leaves you or does he foresake you. The Helper will help the believer to all truth.
What those who speak against OSAS fail to relize is that God is soveriegn and once your life is His no one is able to take you out of His hand.
A person can make a willfull decision to foreske God and turn away from Him. In that case the person has foresaken God and left Him and made a decision not to be saved.
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Ah ha! That point about making a decision to forsake God is what is usually missing in OSAS presentations I have heard. I have heard it argued that OSAS makes it impossible to walk out on the saving grace of Christ.

Would a die-hard advocate of OSAS argue against your position?
 
Calvanists would disagree with both of us.
They believe it is already determined who will be saved and who wont be.
 
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SolaChristo:
With Christ in your life you become ever mindfull of unrepentant sin. Jesus never leaves you or does he foresake you. The Helper will help the believer to all truth.
What those who speak against OSAS fail to relize is that God is soveriegn and once your life is His no one is able to take you out of His hand.
A person can make a willfull decision to foreske God and turn away from Him. In that case the person has foresaken God and left Him and made a decision not to be saved.
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This makes it sounds as if you don’t believe in OSAS.

When I was Baptist, the way OSAS was explained to me was that once you fully accepted Jesus into your heart, then there was nothing that you could do to expel him. If you were a true Christian, the Holy Spirit would guide you and keep you from doing any major sin(Although, confusingly enough the Holy Spirit didn’t same able to keep you from small sins). Also your faith would produce a change in you and you would want to do good works. The reason that you couldn’t expel Jesus from your heart was because as a new creation, you wouldn’t want to reject Jesus. If you did then you weren’t saved to begin with.

I don’t want to misinterprete the beliefs of others, so I hope that I explained that well enough. It was always a confusing theology to me.
 
Heb 6:1 Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, 2 of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. 3 And this we will F25 do if God permits. 4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, F26 to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

Looking at this not from a theoretical approach but a real world approach. A person makes a decision to have Christ their Savior, to start to live out a Christian life. They walk with God for a period of time and know the grace and goodness of God no devil or person is able to decieve them into losing their salvation and yet that person makes a willfull decision to back away from God knowing the consequences. How likely is that scenerio?
 
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SolaChristo:
Heb 6:1 Therefore, leaving the discussion of the elementary principles of Christ, let us go on to perfection, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works and of faith toward God, 2 of the doctrine of baptisms, of laying on of hands, of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. 3 And this we will F25 do if God permits. 4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, F26 to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

Looking at this not from a theoretical approach but a real world approach. A person makes a decision to have Christ their Savior, to start to live out a Christian life. They walk with God for a period of time and know the grace and goodness of God no devil or person is able to decieve them into losing their salvation and yet that person makes a willfull decision to back away from God knowing the consequences. How likely is that scenerio?
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I’m not sure I quite understand what you are saying. I’m thinking of Paul’s list of things that cannot separate us from the love of God:

“tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword . . . neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.”

One thing not on that list is sin. Is that what you are saying in the words of the Epistle to the Hebrews?
 
I guess what Im saying is that Paul in Hebrews says it is possible to fall away, what Im saying is that it would be extremely rare
 
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SolaChristo:
I guess what Im saying is that Paul in Hebrews says it is possible to fall away, what Im saying is that it would be extremely rare
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Did St Paul write the epistle to the Hebrews? :confused:
 
"For if we sin deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful prospect of judgments . . . (Heb. 10:26-27).

I’d say that’s fairly explicit.
 
Aaron I. said:
"For if we sin deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful prospect of judgments . . . (Heb. 10:26-27).

I’d say that’s fairly explicit.
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But Jesus also says no one can come to Him unless the Father sends them. And He will not lose any that the Father sends

Pretty explicit Id say.
 
Aaron I said:
"For if we sin deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful prospect of judgments . . . (Heb. 10:26-27).

I’d say that’s fairly explicit.
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Sola Christo:
But Jesus also says no one can come to Him unless the Father sends them. And He will not lose any that the Father sends

Pretty explicit Id say.
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This is just the sort of thing that makes “verse tennis” completely inadequate. These are big issues which require a profound and knowledgeable reading of the whole of Scripture in the context of apostolic teaching.
 
Originally Posted by Sola Christo
*But Jesus also says no one can come to Him unless the Father sends them. And He will not lose any that the Father sends

Pretty explicit Id say.*
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Just for my own education, can you state what verse(s) you are referring to, and Bible version? I can’t find it. The closest I see is John 14:23- , and it doesn’t really say that at all.

I would like to learn, thanks and God bless!
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SolaChristo:
I guess what Im saying is that Paul in Hebrews says it is possible to fall away, what Im saying is that it would be extremely rare
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I think that sin and doubt are pretty insidious things.Satan knows what tempts us and we being, human, do have to be on guard. The problem is that what leads each of us to fall away is a very individual thing. For some it is something obvious like lust but there are others who might have the fault of judging others. I think that this is the point of Romans 14. We all have strength and weaknesses and we should be respectful of the things that cause our brothers to stumble.

I think that the most dangerous attitude is to take one of believing that you won’t ever stumble or that there is no way that you, personally, could ever fall into doubt.
 
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