One brave women who said NO to Muhammed.

[cathopologist]

You act as though Christian women are never abused?
Or that Christian men have never abused them?

Show me one Christian man or woman who does unspeakable things to their spouses on a daily basis around the globe and says it is his/her God-given right to abuse their loved ones.

PS: Don’t just randomly pick anyone. Notice how Christian is both underlined and bold?

 

[Psalter]

You act as though Christian women are never abused?
Or that Christian men have never abused them?

No, but when Christian men abuse their wives, they are actually committing a sin…when Moslem men abuse their wives, they’re simply doing what Allah commands them to do. Duh!

Common sense isn’t one of your strong points, is it Sister?

 

[Psalter]

you don’t even know sam. what an immature comment to make. so now you resort to insults?

Because she doesn’t have anything intelligent to say, of course. Sister Amy regularly resorts to insults and one-liners with unpleasant facts about Mohammad; I think it’s a psychological tactic she uses on herself to avoid having to face the fact that her religion is a complete sham. It reminds me of the saying “don’t kill the messenger because you dislike the message” (and if you lived in a Muslim country you might very well get killed for taking a critical look at Mohammad).

 

[Sister_Amy]

No, but when Christian men abuse their wives, they are actually committing a sin…when Moslem men abuse their wives, they’re simply doing what Allah commands them to do. Duh!

Common sense isn’t one of your strong points, is it Sister?

My Catholic brother-in-law routinely calls me one of the stupidest people he knows. Take that how you will.

In fact, if a Muslim man abuses his wife, he is committing a sin. There is no question about this, and no disagreement among any of the teachings of Islam on this point.

It’s a hateful and disgusting (and sinful) thing for a man to abuse his wife. And men who do it are psychologically disturbed. Even if they try to use Isam to justify it (why Catholics like to justify violence I’ll never understand), they do so ignorantly and falsely.

To suggest that Allah commands men to abuse their wives is an outright lie, a twisted distortion and nothing less.

 

[Sister_Amy]

Because she doesn’t have anything intelligent to say, of course. Sister Amy regularly resorts to insults and one-liners with unpleasant facts about Mohammad; I think it’s a psychological tactic she uses on herself to avoid having to face the fact that her religion is a complete sham. It reminds me of the saying “don’t kill the messenger because you dislike the message” (and if you lived in a Muslim country you might very well get killed for taking a critical look at Mohammad).

I am curious why you find it to be an insult.

I was accused of lying no less than 3 times today. Consider me “distraught.”

But seriously, why do you think what I said to Sam was an insult?

 

[Psalter]

My Catholic brother-in-law routinely calls me one of the stupidest people he knows. Take that how you will.

He’s probably frustrated! You are obviously not stupid…but gullible, misguided, close-minded…

 

[Psalter]

And risk having to marry men like you? I think I’d prefer polygyny. :dts:

This isn’t an insult?

You would rather be the umpteenth wife of a 7th century pagan Arab pedophile and epileptic warlord with a wart on his back than be the only wife of a nice man like Sam_777?

 

[Sister_Amy]

He’s probably frustrated! You are obviously not stupid…but gullible, misguided, close-minded…

Obviously.

Hehehe… I have to have a sense of humor to tolerate that sort of critique. “Gullible, misguided, close-minded.”

But there are some things that unfortunately I just can’t tolerate. Sad…

I guess it’s a good time to remember the words of Jesus:

Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

 

[Psalter]

I guess it’s a good time to remember the words of Jesus:

Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

How do you know Jesus even uttered that? I thought the Bible was corrupt and not trustworthy, Sister Amy.

 

[Sister_Amy]

This isn’t an insult?

You would rather be the umpteenth wife of a 7th century pagan Arab pedophile and epileptic warlord with a wart on his back than be the only wife of a nice man like Sam_777?

LOL

That’s why you see it as an insult. (In fact it was a very deep sort of remark that was sarcastic and biting yet humorous at the same time. Partly a joke and… partly not.)

But when I think of polygyny, “umpteenth wife” is certainly not going to come to mind. Because in Islam, men can only marry four women. No more than four wives at a time.

I also think of today, 2008, and not the 7th century.

I also think of righteous pious men who recite the Qur’an regularly and are fluent in Arabic, students of Shari’ah.

I certainly don’t think of pedophiles… can’t imagine why anyone would.

I don’t think of epileptics, either.

And since war is only allowed in certain just situations, I really don’t think much of warlords. Anyone who loves war is certainly not anyone I’d marry.

Vs. Sam who you say is a “nice man?”

Now, I’m not stupid (at least I don’t think I am) so I perceive you are attempting to allude to Muhammad (who was not an epileptic pedophilic warlord with umpteen wives). And Muhammad was the prophet of Islam. So if you are asking me if I’d rather marry Muhammad than someone else… anyone else? The answer is without question ABSOLUTELY YES!

But I was actually thinking of someone today, a gentle middle-aged man who has taken another wife and has children but also wants another–and has the means of supporting another. He would have to provide me with my own home and means of transportation–everything he gives to the first wife he would have to give to me as well, so there would be fairness between us. I imagine marrying someone who really understands Islam and wants to practice it as earnestly as I do.

And the other option is Sam… a “nice man” as you put it.

But in fact, Sam is something else. There’s a special word for what Sam is. If you ask him a question about himself, he’ll give you a cryptic answer–one for his “flesh” and one for his “soul.” Is this dichotomy indicative of multiple personality disorder or something of the like? I don’t think so. What Sam is is a man who is proclaiming to be a pious Muslim on the outside, while inwardly holding contempt for Islam. He’s not Christian, or a Muslim, but he pretends to be one (or the other.)

And the word for such a person is a munafiq.

And a munafiq is someone who will be punished in the deepest level of hell.

And you think I would rather marry him… ?

A munafiq–a liar, a traitor, a hypocrite–over the messenger of God?

I hope I made myself clear.

 

[jen_fla]

My Catholic brother-in-law routinely calls me one of the stupidest people he knows. Take that how you will.

In fact, if a Muslim man abuses his wife, he is committing a sin. There is no question about this, and no disagreement among any of the teachings of Islam on this point.

It’s a hateful and disgusting (and sinful) thing for a man to abuse his wife. And men who do it are psychologically disturbed. Even if they try to use Isam to justify it (why Catholics like to justify violence I’ll never understand), they do so ignorantly and falsely.

To suggest that Allah commands men to abuse their wives is an outright lie, a twisted distortion and nothing less.

004.034
Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.

why are you in such denial? if beating your wife is not abuse, then what is?

so what there are other parts of your new religion that say to treat your wife well. the point is that the above approval of beating a wife COMES FROM THE QURAN! :banghead:

how many times do we have to spell this out for you? ALL people of ALL faiths sin. no one is perfect. do you agree with that? i would think so.

ok so stay with me here… when a Christian man beats his wife, he is going AGAINST Christian teachings. Jesus taught compassion and nowhere in the new testament does Jesus say beating your spouse is permitted.

HOWEVER, in the quran, it clearly says it is OK.

what do you not understand about that? are you going to deny this?

and what in the world do you mean by Catholics liking to justify violence?

 

[Muslim_Woman]

Salaam/peace

This isn’t an insult?

You would rather be the umpteenth wife of a 7th century pagan Arab pedophile and epileptic warlord with a wart on his back than be the only wife of a nice man like Sam_777?

It’s a blessing for any believing woman to be one of the respected wives of any Prophet (p) of God Almighty.

It should be ok to be one of 4 wives of any ordinary Muslim man who fears God. Surely it’s a curse to be the only wife of a person who revolted against God & spending his days & nights bashing His messenger. Better we die before we are that lucky.

 

[Sister_Amy]

How do you know Jesus even uttered that? I thought the Bible was corrupt and not trustworthy, Sister Amy.

I don’t know for sure, not 100%. I don’t have the original, or a chain of transmitters to verify. But I think it’s reasonable to assume the possibility, for now.

And it oh so eloquently says exactly what I needed to.

Don’t you think Jesus uttered those words? For sure they ring true, even in Islam, and for that I have no qualms about accepting them. Have you proof to the contrary?

 

[jen_fla]

LOL

That’s why you see it as an insult. (In fact it was a very deep sort of remark that was sarcastic and biting yet humorous at the same time. Partly a joke and… partly not.)

But when I think of polygyny, “umpteenth wife” is certainly not going to come to mind. Because in Islam, men can only marry four women. No more than four wives at a time.

I also think of today, 2008, and not the 7th century.

I also think of righteous pious men who recite the Qur’an regularly and are fluent in Arabic, students of Shari’ah.

I certainly don’t think of pedophiles… can’t imagine why anyone would.

I don’t think of epileptics, either.

And since war is only allowed in certain just situations, I really don’t think much of warlords. Anyone who loves war is certainly not anyone I’d marry.

Vs. Sam who you say is a “nice man?”

Now, I’m not stupid (at least I don’t think I am) so I perceive you are attempting to allude to Muhammad (who was not an epileptic pedophilic warlord with umpteen wives). And Muhammad was the prophet of Islam. So if you are asking me if I’d rather marry Muhammad than someone else… anyone else? The answer is without question ABSOLUTELY YES!

But I was actually thinking of someone today, a gentle middle-aged man who has taken another wife and has children but also wants another–and has the means of supporting another. He would have to provide me with my own home and means of transportation–everything he gives to the first wife he would have to give to me as well, so there would be fairness between us. I imagine marrying someone who really understands Islam and wants to practice it as earnestly as I do.

And the other option is Sam… a “nice man” as you put it.

**But in fact, Sam is something else. There’s a special word for what Sam is. If you ask him a question about himself, he’ll give you a cryptic answer–one for his “flesh” and one for his “soul.” Is this dichotomy indicative of multiple personality disorder or something of the like? I don’t think so. What Sam is is a man who is proclaiming to be a pious Muslim on the outside, while inwardly holding contempt for Islam. He’s not Christian, or a Muslim, but he pretends to be one (or the other.) **

And the word for such a person is a munafiq.

And a munafiq is someone who will be punished in the deepest level of hell.

And you think I would rather marry him… ?

A munafiq–a liar, a traitor, a hypocrite–over the messenger of God?

I hope I made myself clear.

yes, you made yourself clear. you sound like a sheltered privileged person that has no capacity to put yourself in another being’s shoes.

please give me an honest answer.

what would YOU do if things were different in your country and your government had a law where you could be killed for changing your faith?

what would you do?

 

[Sister_Amy]

004.034
Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.

why are you in such denial? if beating your wife is not abuse, then what is?

If beating your wife is abuse, then beating your wife is not allowed. And obviously, that verse doesn’t say beating. What it does say is a matter of disagreement, but you won’t find scholars who tell you that it means abuse AT ALL. They’ll say it means to have relations with her (return to her bed), or to whack her with a toothbrush. But beating? Abuse? No they don’t say that, so neither should you.

so what there are other parts of your new religion that say to treat your wife well. the point is that the above approval of beating a wife COMES FROM THE QURAN! :banghead:

So what? So what? My dear we call that “context.” If the Qur’an says to do this, then the Companions of Muhammad ask him, well, what does this mean? And he answers. Don’t you care what his answer is? Or are you going to just go on and do what you want anyway? Believe what you want anyway? If he says it means like using a toothbrush and nothing harder than that… (and that’s what he did say actually) then how can you say it’s abuse? You can’t just pull something out and presume to be an expert. It’s I who should be banging my head for the foolishness you’ve attempted.

how many times do we have to spell this out for you? ALL people of ALL faiths sin. no one is perfect. do you agree with that? i would think so.

I would like for you to repeat that… do Catholics sin? What about you? Do you sin? Didn’t Jesus say to pull the plank out of your own eye before worrying about the speck of dust in your brother’s eye?

ok so stay with me here… when a Christian man beats his wife, he is going AGAINST Christian teachings. Jesus taught compassion and nowhere in the new testament does Jesus say beating your spouse is permitted.

Does Jesus say it was forbidden for a man to hit his wife? With a toothbrush?

HOWEVER, in the quran, it clearly says it is OK.

Context, my dear. Is beating okay? It is haraam for Muslims to interpret such a verse, that means it’s haraam for you too. Haraam means forbidden.

what do you not understand about that? are you going to deny this?

I am going to deny your ability to interpret the Qur’an.

and what in the world do you mean by Catholics liking to justify violence?

It seems like a favorite past-time of some Catholics on this board to say that Muslim men abuse their wives and that it’s okay!!! It’s not okay. But instead of just condemning the evil, they try to justify it with the Qur’an. Precisely what you have done…

 

[Sister_Amy]

yes, you made yourself clear. you sound like a sheltered privileged person that has no capacity to put yourself in another being’s shoes.

please give me an honest answer.

what would YOU do if things were different in your country and your government had a law where you could be killed for changing your faith?

what would you do?

you know… i am not a violent person, but seriously… :slapfight:

I can answer you from the Qur’an:

He who forsakes his home in the cause of Allah, finds in the earth Many a refuge, wide and spacious: Should he die as a refugee from home for Allah and His Messenger, His reward becomes due and sure with Allah: And Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

The earth is very wide and expansive, so I would move. And since my own country is taking that route, I hope I can do that very soon.

And that slapfight thing was awesome, seriously… I’d never seen that before. Hilarious.

 

[Muslim_Woman]

Salaam/Peace

why are you in such denial? if beating your wife is not abuse, then what is?

you not understand about that?

are you going to deny this?

and what in the world do you mean by Catholics liking to justify violence?

read posts 13 & 16 pl.

Last Prophet (p) came in to this world as a mercy for all. He was kind to his wives–never beat them ; all married men should follow his example.

 

[jen_fla]

If beating your wife is abuse, then beating your wife is not allowed. And obviously, that verse doesn’t say beating. What it does say is a matter of disagreement, but you won’t find scholars who tell you that it means abuse AT ALL. They’ll say it means to have relations with her (return to her bed), or to whack her with a toothbrush. But beating? Abuse? No they don’t say that, so neither should you.

you are an american that is new to this religion and in the past, you have told me one must go to a scholar or cleric for correct interpretation. well i have. some say to make the beatings light. hurray for women!

others leave it a bit more open. it is still a dangerous teaching.

youtube.com/watch?v=mr-vt2DTCFw

So what? So what? My dear we call that “context.” If the Qur’an says to do this, then the Companions of Muhammad ask him, well, what does this mean? And he answers. Don’t you care what his answer is? Or are you going to just go on and do what you want anyway? Believe what you want anyway? If he says it means like using a toothbrush and nothing harder than that… (and that’s what he did say actually) then how can you say it’s abuse? You can’t just pull something out and presume to be an expert. It’s I who should be banging my head for the foolishness you’ve attempted.

one day i hope you are strong enough to see how foolish you sound. i pray you leave the dark path you are on.

I would like for you to repeat that… do Catholics sin? What about you? Do you sin? Didn’t Jesus say to pull the plank out of your own eye before worrying about the speck of dust in your brother’s eye?

seriously, what is wrong with you? i said could we not agree that ALL people of ALL faiths sin. so obviously i sin. never tried to imply i didn’t. careful your responses are starting to mimic planten’s style.

Does Jesus say it was forbidden for a man to hit his wife? With a toothbrush?

Context, my dear. Is beating okay? It is haraam for Muslims to interpret such a verse, that means it’s haraam for you too. Haraam means forbidden.

I am going to deny your ability to interpret the Qur’an.

and women of the world should deny your ability as well. shall we look to more clerics? their sermons are all over the internet. even the softest versions still justify beating, but just do it lightly ok?

It seems like a favorite past-time of some Catholics on this board to say that Muslim men abuse their wives and that it’s okay!!! It’s not okay. But instead of just condemning the evil, they try to justify it with the Qur’an. Precisely what you have done…

you are ignoring clerics from other countries. good for you!

but i must point out your inability to understand anything i have written. show me one post on here from any Catholic that has stated that beating your wives is OK. you know that is not what we meant. we are just pointing out that the quran states it is ok. OBVIOUSLY we disagree with the quran.

i am not a violent person, but again, i think you need this:

:slapfight:

 

[jen_fla]

I can answer you from the Qur’an:

He who forsakes his home in the cause of Allah, finds in the earth Many a refuge, wide and spacious: Should he die as a refugee from home for Allah and His Messenger, His reward becomes due and sure with Allah: And Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

The earth is very wide and expansive, so I would move. And since my own country is taking that route, I hope I can do that very soon.

And that slapfight thing was awesome, seriously… I’d never seen that before. Hilarious.

ah man, i took it off cause i didn’t think you’d see the humor. thought you’d somehow accuse me of condoning beating!

but being serious again, sometimes people don’t have the economic means to move or perhaps they might have elderly family members they have to take care of.

your flippant answers boggle my mind. how can you NOT see that he must be in a very difficult position?

i know if you stop and give it thought you can show a bit more mercy.

seriously, right now it would cool if we had a toothbrush emoticon!

 

[Muslim_Woman]

Salaam/peace

…i am not a violent person, but i think you need this:

:slapfight:

hahahah , let me help u http://theislampath.com/smf/Smileys/default/boxing.gif

Sis Amy , run , hurry