One brave women who said NO to Muhammed.

[planten]

Surah 2:30-31
And when thy Lord said unto the angels: Lo! I am about to place a viceroy in the earth, they said: Wilt thou place therein one who will do harm therein and will shed blood, while we, we hymn Thy praise and sanctify Thee ? He said: Surely I know that which ye know not. And He taught Adam all the names, then showed them to the angels, saying: Inform Me of the names of these, if ye are truthful.

angelos, please tell where is any word about creation of Adam. There is reference to the placement of a vicegerent in the earth. It does not say a word about creating Adam.

Surah 7:11-12
And We created you, then fashioned you, then told the angels: Fall ye prostrate before Adam! And they fell prostrate, all save Iblis, who was not of those who make prostration. He said: What hindered thee that thou didst not fall prostrate when I bade thee ? (Iblis) said: I am better than him. Thou createdst me of fire while him Thou didst create of mud.

You have admitted the verse means creation of mankind. No mention of Adam. That is why you asked in next para who was first man created.

Who was first created if not Adam? Please cite reference to support your thesis.

That I cannot say. I have no reply. But it was not Adam. By the time Adam appeared, there were many people. Adam was the first prophet who was given the message and appointed responsible (Khalifah). At that time there were many men with Adam and many more with Iblis.

 

[Angelos]

angelos, please tell where is any word about creation of Adam. There is reference to the placement of a vicegerent in the earth. It does not say a word about creating Adam.

This means you believe that Adam was not created at all. He was made a viceroy in the world with no creation.

**
You have admitted the verse means creation of mankind. No mention of Adam. That is why you asked in next para who was first man created.**

First you said that Adam was not created, now you claim that Adam was not a man. The Koran verse I quoted presents Adam as the prototype of created men!

Surah 7:11-12
And We created you, then fashioned you, then told the angels: Fall ye prostrate before Adam! And they fell prostrate, all save Iblis, who was not of those who make prostration. He said: What hindered thee that thou didst not fall prostrate when I bade thee ? (Iblis) said: I am better than him. Thou createdst me of fire while him Thou didst create of mud.

Put on your glasses and read these verses again. Can’t you see the name ADAM there? The personal pronoun YOU is followed by Adam’s name since Adam was the FIRST member and representative of the whole mankind. Iblis refers to Adam when he says “HIM Thoud didst create of mud”.

**
That I cannot say. I have no reply. But it was not Adam. By the time Adam appeared, there were many people. Adam was the first prophet who was given the message and appointed responsible (Khalifah). At that time there were many men with Adam and many more with Iblis.**

Who were those people when Adam was supposedly sent to the earth from Heaven? Where were they? Why did Allah ask His angels to prostrate themselves before Adam if he had not been created first?

If you have no reply and reference from your Koran, there is no use discussing your theories with you. You are a man of assumptions. Good luck to your play on words.

 

[inJESUS]

I’m pretty sure any at least half-way normal decent human being, and the vast majority of ALL Muslim men, wouldn’t EVER “beat the kahoona out of their wives” for ANY reason at all. And in fact that’s such a gross and disgusting overgeneralization… seriously, who gave you the right to stereotype muslim men that way? Most of the Muslim men I know wouldn’t hurt a bug let alone their wives!

i don’t have statistics so i can’t say if the majority beat their wives or don’t…but the point is that it is allowed even if it were to be a slap on the face or wherever…and we are not objecting to the intensity of the beating because the idea itself from its roots cannot be acceptable let alone a divine command from God so if this or that do not beat their wife, that’s because they are good people, not because they are following the Quran.

Muhammad never even shook the hands of women who were not related to him. The hadith which was quoted really confused me, for a reason inJESUS brought up. It really actually sounds like the “woman” he is speaking to is just a girl, under the age of puberty, and not a grown woman. I’m not even sure that his request was sincere or not a joke or something. There are just too many questions about it for me to draw any conclusions.

 

[inJESUS]

Yet women have not been popes.

Women have not been priests.

 

[inJESUS]

Welcome back "inJESUS

" , I hope that you are okay, actually I was waiting till Nov 7th (30 days from your last post on Oct 7th) to issue an alert for you here on CAF, since you have mentioned before that you live in Arabian Peninsula, however, during your absence our fellow “Isa Almisry” got banned .

thank you for your concern :hug3: …i intalled a much better connection but it took the company some time that’s it

 

[NeedsFaith]

I have a muslim college friend who talks down about it and says if a husband wants it and a wife does not , she can divorce him.

And she told him “I seek refuge with Allah from you”.
What a brave women she was , it seems she let her brain works and avoided Muhammed’s polygamy.

I think Muslims women nowadays should follow her steps and say no to their husbands:takethat: when they want to take another wives.

**Sahih Bukhari, Volume 7, Book 63, Number 182: **
“We went out with the Prophet to a garden called Ash-Shaut till we reached two walls between which we sat down. The Prophet said, “Sit here,” and went in (the garden). The Jauniyya (a lady from Bani Jaun) had been brought and lodged in a house in a date-palm garden in the home of Umaima bint An-Nu’man bin Sharahil, and her wet nurse was with her. When the Prophet entered upon her, he said to her, “Give me yourself (in marriage) as a gift.” She said, “Can a princess give herself in marriage to an ordinary man?” The Prophet raised his hand to pat her so that she might become tranquil. She said, “I seek refuge with Allah from you.” He said, "You have sought refuge with One Who gives refuge. Then the Prophet came out to us and said, "O Abu Usaid! Give her two white linen dresses to wear and let her go back to her family.”

صحيح البخاري
خرجنا مع النبي ‏ ‏صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏ ‏حتى انطلقنا إلى ‏ ‏حائط ‏ ‏يقال له الشوط حتى انتهينا إلى ‏ ‏حائطين ‏ ‏فجلسنا بينهما فقال النبي ‏ ‏صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏ ‏اجلسوا ها هنا ودخل وقد أتي ‏ ‏بالجونية ‏ ‏فأنزلت في بيت في نخل في بيت ‏ ‏أميمة بنت النعمان بن شراحيل ‏ ‏ومعها دايتها حاضنة لها فلما دخل عليها النبي ‏ ‏صلى الله عليه وسلم ‏ ‏قال هبي نفسك لي قالت وهل تهب الملكة نفسها للسوقة قال فأهوى بيده يضع يده عليها لتسكن فقالت أعوذ بالله منك فقال ‏ ‏قد عذت بمعاذ ثم خرج علينا فقال يا ‏ ‏أبا أسيد ‏ ‏اكسها ‏ ‏رازقيتين ‏ ‏وألحقها بأهلها ‏
​

(E) (A)

 

[ralphinal]

Ralph, No, I do not read any bible. I used to read the KJV version which was a bound copy which is now too old and torn from beginning and end. So i do not have any bible now except that one.

But still I never (seldom) read anything beyond the first four gospels. I respect them and honor them and love them. That is more than enough for me.

About the soul of woman, I had read some where. It may not be in the bible. But the derogatory remarks about Eve are in the bible. that puts a blame on the women. Specially when you take the case of the original sin that is the prime belief of the church then teh whole burden of sin falls on the women.

But Quran never blamed Eve for misleading Adam. Thanks to Allah for another relief to the ladies fromt he point of view of Islam. Whereas the church blames the ladies for initiating the original sin, the Islam does say so.

The right to vote is an important right. Bible fails to give that right to women.

If you were to read the Bible, you would see that Adam is the one most often blaimed, not Eve.

I find it very interesting that the religion that opposes democracy the most holds the delay in allowing Women to vote against us.

 

[TomaszA]

thank you for your concern :hug3: …i intalled a much better connection but it took the company some time that’s it

 

[inJESUS]

inJESUS;4337345:

Wow, you actually reside in the Arabian Peninsula?

nop, in Lebanon

 

[jen_fla]

thank you for your concern :hug3: …i intalled a much better connection but it took the company some time that’s it

 

[cathopologist]

**Yes, Cathopologist, please leave the Muslim apologist alone. talk about the Catholic apologists. **

**
Why should i? This is a thread about Islam, not about Catholic apologists. Its a thread concerning Islam’s greatest female warrior saint/child wife of your prophet.
**

islam is a blessing for all makind including ladies. The ladies had excellenet rights 1400 years ago. Now you please prove that your christian ladies had similar rights and how and why did they get it? By some legislation or by the sacred command.

**
**Islam put a curse on women. Re-read your Qur’an. Women before the birth of Islam, from all walks of life and faith enjoyed greater freedom than you can fathom. And planten, i’ve already touched on the status of women in Christianity. How many women in Islam are revered? Four? Five? **
**

**Please show from your bible all the good words about the rights of the ladies. Show something like Quran said, " The ladies have the same rights as you have…" Do you have even word of that sort in your bible?

I know you ignore my questions and pass them off.**

planten, the Bible does not have to say anything regarding equal status for women. It is already understood that women are to be held in high-esteem and must be respected as equally as the men. The Bible is not the Qur’an where it feels obligated to explain the needs to practice hygiene before and after sexual intercourse or claims to have Syaitan living inside your nose, thereby needing to cleanse your nose of any unwanted booger aka Syaitan. Besides, if the Bible is inferior to the Qur’an in terms of women’s rights, how come women in non-Muslim countries have better education and enjoy better privileges than women in Muslim countries? How are you going to slither out of this response, i wonder?

WE will not deny they had the rights. But it should be proved by your books not from your present day advocacy. Do not be too smart to advocate for your book (bible) if bible itself is silent on any issue.

**
Well, as long as you do not deny Christian women enjoy better privileges than there is no more to be said on this subject. And read my previous response to you.
**

Now about non-sensical things. I see that church has more non-sensical things. the whole lot of unmarried mothers (nuns) and the whole lot of un-married fathers (Padres). Is that anything sensible? Please explain your unmarried mothers and fathers found in your churches.

planten, you are just so smart that nobody can outdo your take on Christianity. Perhaps i must look to the Uztads and Imams and ask them why Muslim women enjoy so much freedom under their beards.

 

[coleraine]

**That post angelos was quite un-necessary. Coming to the topic, I admire the good heart of the prophet who released the lady from the bond of marriage at once.

Please note that she was married to the prophet. When he approached her, she said, “i seek refuge with Allah…” So the prophet did not touch her. he sent her back to her family. What a good behaviour !

The prophet is also reported to have said:

“The best amongst you are the ones who are best to their wives ( and children). And I am the best amongst you because I am dealing best to my family.” All praise be to Allah.**

hmmm…instead of just saying that it was unnecessary why not refute his his claim? from your islamic point of view it probably offended you, but we are not muslims my friend. please explain the beating of ones wife in islam.

 

[coleraine]

Id just like to say something about the beatings with tooth brushes. Sure, no one is going to die as a result, but no matter what the level of pain, its still a beating. what gives a Muslim the right to beat their wives in any way, even if it is very minor? Im a guy, but im gonna say, men are not above women. we are all sheep in the lords flock.

 

[cathopologist]

The problem is that now there are more children out of wedlock than those by marriage. There is no concept of marriage in Europe. The christians do no tmarry until they produce a child. If they fail then they mve on to the next lady / gent and try their luck.
There are more Muslim girls here, that produce children without marrying. Some are as young as 16. You should thank yourself you are in a Catholic forum. I would love to show you videos of actual Muslim girls behaving wildly in parties or in parks. But i am not going to stoop to your low level.**
**

The church could not hold the people on the right path. There are very genuine good chaste people in christians but they are far and few.

The same is true for Muslims. Don’t think Islam has goody-two-shoes people as its adherents.

 

[cathopologist]

Well , Christians believe Jesus (p) said it’s adultery to marry a divorced lady. So , what’s the solution here for a Christian woman who has an abusive husband ? If she divorces him , no believer should marry her as that will be a sin.

Ever heard of marriage counseling? Do you believe in prayers? Do you believe in miracles? Some Christian women never give up. They put their faith in God and let the Holy Spirit calm the angry soul inside.

So what if all that has been exhausted and she can no longer bear the emotional and physical abuse? If the spouse can prove there was a non-sacramental or non-consummated marriage, a tribunal will be held to consider for an annulment.

 

[planten]

If you were to read the Bible, you would see that Adam is the one most often blaimed, not Eve.

I find it very interesting that the religion that opposes democracy the most holds the delay in allowing Women to vote against us.

**Ralph, without any reference, how can I blame Adam. I only know that bible blames Eve. Quran does not do that.

It is true that the general condition of muslims today is bad. That is no excuse to say that it has always been bad or the Muslims did not have a better system. The grant of vote to ladies is good example of the goodness of Islam. Should not be denied.**

 

[ralphinal]

**Ralph, without any reference, how can I blame Adam. I only know that bible blames Eve. Quran does not do that.

It is true that the general condition of muslims today is bad. That is no excuse to say that it has always been bad or the Muslims did not have a better system. The grant of vote to ladies is good example of the goodness of Islam. Should not be denied.**

But what would they vote for? And how would they get there?

First, get democracies, then let them drive cars and VOTE.

Pass laws that punish honor killings like everything else in Islam: eye for an eye.

Show us that respecting women does not include beating or hiding them. Then we can talk

Paul always blamed Adam, as did Jesus. Off the top of my head, I cannot think of any time Eve was blamed. I will get you quotes when I can.

 

[planten]

**
Why should i? This is a thread about Islam, not about Catholic apologists. Its a thread concerning Islam’s greatest female warrior saint/child wife of your prophet.

---

**Islam put a curse on women. Re-read your Qur’an. Women before the birth of Islam, from all walks of life and faith enjoyed greater freedom than you can fathom. And planten, i’ve already touched on the status of women in Christianity. How many women in Islam are revered? Four? Five? **
**

The thread was started with bad intentions. I need not start a new thread to counter your arguments. You had no reply to the lack of good words about ladies in bible. So you passed it off with the remarks that every one knows to treat ladies well.

In fact you have admitted another shortcoming of your bible about the welfare of the ladies. That is why I have to tell you that when your own book is all quiet on a subject then you should not harass others about it. You should rather look to the lack of necessary good things in the bible.

planten, the Bible does not have to say anything regarding equal status for women. It is already understood that women are to be held in high-esteem and must be respected as equally as the men.

You have admitted the weakness of your book again. How youare to understand things? By your dreams ? Please just admit that there is no guidance for you or any one else in the bible.

If it was to be left to the mankind itself to gather the guidance then what was the use of sending messengers and prophets. Man is an animal. It could survive by eating the leaves of the trees.

That was not the purpose. It was necessary to give spiritual guidance to mankind. that is why the prophets were sent to mankind. Spiritual uplift needs hygene. You do not understand any of those things which were strictly precribed for you in the bible OT. You made a big mistake by throwing away that good law of Moses.

You people did not realise that it was from God Almighty. Do you deny that law was from God? If it was then that could not be completely thrown away. That would be a sin. And more sin to call teh law a curse. You cannot give any good reason for any of those things.

The observance of sabath (A day solely for the worship of Allah) was necessary. That was to take a break from the worldly things and to get close to the Godly things.

Then eating of the haram animal flesh (Pig or Swine). That let you down spiritually. Food affects a person. What goes in, if it is not clean (pure) then nothing good comes out. Jesus knew all that. His friends knew all that and practiced it. I cannot understand how you became wiser than Jesus.

It would be good for you all to go back to Judaism.

The Bible is not the Qur’an

where it feels obligated to explain the needs to practice hygiene before and after sexual intercourse

I have already given my remarks about your disagreement with the teachings and practice of Jesus, and about your unclean habits. Please see above.
…

**
**Well, as long as you do not deny Christian women enjoy better privileges than there is no more to be said on this subject. And read my previous response to you.

Well enjoy as much as you like. It is unlike Jesus.

planten, you are just so smart that nobody can outdo your take on Christianity. Perhaps i must look to the Uztads and Imams and ask them why Muslim women enjoy so much freedom under their beards.

Do what you like. Bring your Ustadd. I have no worry. I see that you are wrong.

 

[planten]

hmmm…instead of just saying that it was unnecessary why not refute his his claim? from your islamic point of view it probably offended you, but we are not muslims my friend. please explain the beating of ones wife in islam.

**Coleraine, my friend, I do not have to explain anything unless something good and better is shown from the bible. If angelos cannot show from the bible , “Do not beat your wife.” then I have not to do anything in that subject.

Have you not deverte dthe subject to wife beating. The original topic is something else. In Islam, it is upto the wife to allow intercourse or not. Specially on the first night and a few nights afterwards. If she does not approve of the man, she can go back to her own people. This is seldom practiced. But allowance is there.

In this way there a very respectable way of courting in Islam.**

 

[jen_fla]

**Coleraine, my friend, I do not have to explain anything unless something good and better is shown from the bible. If angelos cannot show from the bible , “Do not beat your wife.” then I have not to do anything in that subject.

Have you not deverte dthe subject to wife beating. The original topic is something else. In Islam, it is upto the wife to allow intercourse or not.** Specially on the first night and a few nights afterwards. If she does not approve of the man, she can go back to her own people. This is seldom practiced. But allowance is there.

In this way there a very respectable way of courting in Islam.

inJesus, Sam, or Angelos could you please tell me if the english translation of this video is accurate?

thank you.

youtube.com/watch?v=QwlW9Qq_zEc

while i am not certain i have a suspicion planten is denying more aspects of his faith.