One correct religion with the Truth (part 2)?

[tonyfish58]

Tony and Servant don’t seem to really understand Judaism or Christianity. Its supremely annoying that they try to tell us who Jesus was and is, as if we don’t really understand Him at all.

Dear Denise1957 - Is this just not a reflection of what it was like for the early believers in Christ that had to spread the Word?

Are you aware of what type of Love it takes to come on to CAF and expound a Truth that you know will most likely be rejected?

Another point is the these thoughts are not ours they come from Baha’u’llah.

It is Baha’u’llah, who Says He is The Father, that expounds the oneness of religion and the Oneness of the Prophets to Which Jesus is part of.

One is obliged to Judge Baha’u’llah as the Bible tells us to do. That dear friend in God is what I will leave for you to do if your heart takes you there.

God Bless your Journey in Love and Faith - Regards Tony

 

[tonyfish58]

You are the world religions as trolls are to the internet, a waste of time.

Dear IgnatianPhilo - That dear friend in God is why you think we have not answered your question!

If you read an answer with that thought in mind, then I would suggest you did not read the answer in the first place.

There is no point of us Talking about Faith and God if you think we have not a thing to offer.

Let God be our Judge and let us Love God as we Must, each in our own way.

God Bless you and Regards Tony

 

[Servant19]

To quote from the New Advent website…“The constant subjects of the great prophetic predictions of Israel, the punishment of the guilty nations, and the realizations for all the ancient promises. Directly or indirectly all the prophecies (OT) are concerned with the obstacles to be removed before the coming of the New Kingdom or with the preparation for the New and final Covenant.”

Scroll down about two-thirds of the way under the heading of:
The Teaching of the Prophets
2) The Teaching, and then read,
2b) Prophetic predictions, The Day of Yahweh, The Saved, Messianism, Eschatology, to find the quote above and the context.

newadvent.org/cathen/12477a.htm

Thankyou for this link dear sister

Can you please offer your understanding as I am confused in these matters as follows:

1. You say: there is no unity of religions and their Prophets.

New advent says:

(1) General Idea — The Hebrew Prophet was not merely, as the word commonly implies, a man enlightened by God to foretell events; he was the interpreter and supernaturally enlightened herald sent by Yahweh to communicate His will and designs to Israel. His mission consisted in preaching as well as in foretelling. He had to maintain and develop the knowledge of the Old Law among the Chosen People, lead them back when they strayed, and gradually prepare the way for the new kingdom of God, which the messias was to establish on earth. Prophecy, in general, signifies the supernatural message of the Prophet, and more especially, from custom, the predictive element of the prophetic message.

Are the Prophets not all united in that they were ALL sent from God and face His Message?

1. You say: " God does not change or transmigrate into various forms (prophets) to suit the various peoples at various times."

Newadvent says:

(1) General Idea — The Hebrew Prophet was not merely, as the word commonly implies, a man enlightened by God to foretell events; he was the interpreter and supernaturally enlightened herald sent by Yahweh to communicate His will and designs to Israel. His mission consisted in preaching as well as in foretelling. He had to maintain and develop the knowledge of the Old Law among the Chosen People, lead them back when they strayed, and gradually prepare the way for the new kingdom of God, which the messias was to establish on earth. Prophecy, in general, signifies the supernatural message of the Prophet, and more especially, from custom, the predictive element of the prophetic message

.

When something is “developed” it changes to suit a specific condition. For example, when we are baking a cake, each stage of the preparation is different, if taken alone, may seem meaningless, but it builds upon the foundations laid from the previous stage of the recipe. If the cook was to “stray” from the recipes “message” it may be that a different message is required to suit to current mess, so that the mess can be changed into the correct pathway again, enabling the cake to be made finally.

Christians say that the cake has been made and the final, most important piece of the recipe was Jesus, he guided each step and made the cake. Baha’is agree with you.

Baha’u’llah has come say that we can now eat the cake and build a party around it…that party is called the Kingdom of God in earth…

The mess that Baha’u’llah has come to remedy is that too many people are not eating the cake, they are disrespecting the cake. It is only through the establishment of Divine Laws that the cake can be enjoyed by one and all, and the Kingdom can be established.

In regards to Gods response to the straying of humanity, Baha’u’llah states:

The All-Knowing Physician hath His finger on the pulse of mankind. He perceiveth the disease, and prescribeth, in His unerring wisdom, the remedy. Every age hath its own problem, and every soul its particular aspiration. The remedy the world needeth in its present-day afflictions can never be the same as that which a subsequent age may require. Be anxiously concerned with the needs of the age ye live in, and center your deliberations on its exigencies and requirements.

We can well perceive how the whole human race is encompassed with great, with incalculable afflictions. We see it languishing on its bed of sickness, sore-tried and disillusioned. They that are intoxicated by self-conceit have interposed themselves between it and the Divine and infallible Physician. Witness how they have entangled all men, themselves included, in the mesh of their devices. They can neither discover the cause of the disease, nor have they any knowledge of the remedy. They have conceived the straight to be crooked, and have imagined their friend an enemy.

Incline your ears to the sweet melody of this Prisoner. Arise, and lift up your voices, that haply they that are fast asleep may be awakened. Say: O ye who are as dead! The Hand of Divine bounty proffereth unto you the Water of Life. Hasten and drink your fill. Whoso hath been re-born in this Day, shall never die; whoso remaineth dead, shall never live.

God bless you dear sister

.

 

[tonyfish58]

God bless you dear Servant19!

Dear Servant -

Try as we might dear friend, the fields are not planted,
Gods Love here is taken to much for granted!

There is a reluctance for fellowship, is it a weakness of Faith?
May Gods Love be shared, let’s all put aside the debate.

Oh how we long for the Unity of Mankind, Oh how we long for hearts to be one,
Oh how we long for the Most Great Peace, Oh Please God may this be Done!

The Lamb with the Lion, the Eagle with the Dove
Where are these Souls of Gods Army of Love?

God Bless and Regards Tony

 

[eddie_too]

the best proof that Bahaullah is not a servant, or a manifestation, or in any way representative of the one God is the fact that Bahaullah did not worship the One God’s Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity in the Holy Eucharist.

it is beyond unbelievable, it is absurd to think that the One God would send some one to reject the Gift of the One God’s Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity in the Holy Eucharist.

it is totally convincing to have the understanding that if Bahaullah in any way represented the One God Bahaullah would have worshipped the One God in the Holy Eucharist at every opportunity.

Bahaullah’s very life and all of his writings testify that he does not know the One God present Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity.

that is really all one needs to know when evaluating the truth(s) contained in the Bahai system of thought and belief.

if there is any portion of the truth in the teachings of Bahaullah, it is purely by chance and it has nothing to do with divine inspiration or grace.

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

May my life be a sacrifice for the dust off your feet Ignatian.

My sense of humour is not seen as such in your eyes it seems

Dear friend, don’t worry if it’s too difficult to grasp.

It seems you are unable to comprehend that more than one human being is capable of being the Creator of the heavens, the earth and everything between them.

To be honest, you should seriously consider Lord Krishna. He came well before Jesus and the history seems to indicate He was God Incarnate too.

iskconbirmingham.org/why-krishna-is-god

I hope and pray that this will lead to an understanding that terms such as “Lord”, “Son”, “Father”, “Jehovah” etc etc are all simply terms referring to a spiritual Plane, or Planes, of existence so far removed from us mere mortals, it’s difficult for us to know for sure what if all means. In the famous words of thd Trinitarian doctrine, “It’s a mystery”

But what I do know for sure is that the Word is the Creator of the universe and the heavens, and the Word was made flesh before Jesus (and His name was Krishna) and it was made flesh after Jesus in the form of Muhammad, the Bab and Baha’u’llah.

Very simple observations confirm this. They all manifest by differing titles, yet they all spring from the same Source…the Word.

They are all Manifestations of the Word of God.

That is as clear an answer I can give.

In terms of your afterlife fate, when I die, I’ll ask Baha’u’llah about you, and get back to you

God bless!

.

For one thing you don’t know what the mystery in the trinity is. The Mystery is not the identity of the Hypostases and their sharing of the one ousia rather it is that we cannot comprehend how this works. Don’t use a theology you know nothing about and reject for your own purposes.

Secondly my question has not been answered, yet again. Are the Bahai religion and Christianity equally true? This is the main topic but the bahai cannot even bother to deal with that, instead wanting to make into something else, namely their prophet.

thirdly, if you want to worship a legendary and non existant blue man from india who fought in a war (which you hate), do so, I won’t stop you. However Christ is far beyond Krishna in terms of Glory, power and honour. I won’t be bowing to Krishna, I will be bowing to Christ. You will be bowing to Jesus as well, not your persian prophet who you don’t know what or who he is.

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

Dear IgnatianPhilo - That dear friend in God is why you think we have not answered your question!

If you read an answer with that thought in mind, then I would suggest you did not read the answer in the first place.

There is no point of us Talking about Faith and God if you think we have not a thing to offer.

Let God be our Judge and let us Love God as we Must, each in our own way.

God Bless you and Regards Tony

And I would suggest you gave no answer. What was the Question? Are the bahai and Christian religion equally true? How many times have I asked? I can’t remember.

You obviously believe that whatever bahai is (for bahais themselves don’t know or cannot explain what bahai is) that the bahai religion is totally true. So what about Christianity? You declare it a religion revealed by God. You say Christians were the true religion at least for 600 or so years. So are Christianity and bahai equally true? Is the bahai doctrine of manifestationism equally as true as the Christian doctrine of the trinity (don’t redefine it and lie to me that you believe it, you know what I mean)?

It is rather simple. Are there false beliefs in the Christian religion? Bahais have on this forum condemned paganism as false and have acted insulted at the insinuation, laid by me, that you would worship with the pagans at stone henge or in hills if you had the chance. So calling something false or wrong is not beyond you. You think rape is wrong right? You will be absolutely clear in your condemnation of persecution of anyone around the world right? So the gauntlet has been laid. You have no reason not be precise and succint in your answer.

No doubt you will dodge and give a non answer and once again, the world, or at least the Catholic answers forum, will see that the bahai are incapable of dealing with a religion they at least find semi valid.

I think I know what you believe and this is what I think you believe.

Might I remind you and the Catholics here of what you said in a private exchange between you and i?

“Yes the Doctrines of the Catholic Church have blinded the followers of Christ to His True Beauty and has caused them to miss what was promised. May the veils be lifted God Willing!”

So obviously there is a degree to which the modern Christian is receiving or believing what might be called the fullness of truth, in the bahai worldview. For if you believed Christianity was equally true there would be no reason for you not to be a Christian when we far out number you and receive nothing better or worse than you. You obviously believe enlightenment, a true world vision is in the bahai which lifts the veil which blinds us to the truth of reality. Christianity then would not then possess this, at least not to the extent you do. For it seems to me you are bound to say we see more clearly than the jews, who see more clearly than budha, who saw more clearly than Abraham, who saw more clearly than Krishna (who was God to you).

Therefore this question could have been answered ages ago. But because you don’t want to reveal what you actually think, that Christianity has been corrupted, at least somewhat. You say you never said that, but you will never deny Christianity being corrupted by men, ie the fathers, councils and hierachs of the church. Instead you want to be as in offensive as possible, not wanting to push us away from what you consider, the complete truth.

This method only works on the gullible who rely only on emotion, in other words, newagers, spiritualists, spiritual not religious types and other religions which force their individuals to believe in reality there is no conflict. A belief which cannot be held consistently when faced with a contradiction. Two plus two equals 4, not 5 or 6 or 7. If the bahai want to deal with the topic forum, they either have to embrace one side. Either all religions are valid or at least a group of them are correct in regards to the truth or there can be only one religion or group which is the truth. There isn’t another option.

There is always obfuscation which is the new-ager’s and the bahai’s best tool.

 

[Servant19]

Are the Bahai religion and Christianity equally true? This is the main topic but the bahai cannot even bother to deal with that…

Hello Ignatian, in answer to this question I would say that the Baha’is believe that Baha’u’llah’s Revelation contains the “fullness of Truth” (to coin a Catholic phrase) for this Age.

If Truth means an exposition of the realities of existence, then all Baha’is would profess that there are more truths enshrined in the Bahai Faith than in Christianity as a whole.

I hope that answers your question…



.

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

Hello Ignatian, in answer to this question I would say that the Baha’is believe that Baha’u’llah’s Revelation contains the “fullness of Truth” (to coin a Catholic phrase) for this Age.

If Truth means an exposition of the realities of existence, then all Baha’is would profess that there are more truths enshrined in the Bahai Faith than in Christianity as a whole.

I hope that answers your question…



.

Thank you for finally giving a decent answer.

Now is there any false teaching in Christianity? Don’t redefine the words which we use to describe our doctrines. Accept their definition as we accept and define it. For instance, is the trinity (do not say you agree with it, while in your mind you are really only agreeing with how the bahai use it) a true doctrine? Is the idea that Jesus is the only means of salvation true? (do not redefine the words “Only means of salvation,” into however you understand it but instead how Christians understand it)

Are you capable of distinguishing between the Christian conception and the bahai conception of these words? Words which the bahai have claimed as their own but mean something totally different?

 

[tonyfish58]

Thank you for finally giving a decent answer. Now is there any false teaching in Christianity?

I can do this for you but I do no think it will be a “decent answer”, It will be like an empty lamp, that is, without light, or a word without meaning. These answers have been previously posted, but as a fuller explanation

The single word answer to that question is Yes

Don’t redefine the words which we use to describe our doctrines. Accept their definition as we accept and define it. For instance, is the trinity (do not say you agree with it, while in your mind you are really only agreeing with how the bahai use it) a true doctrine?

The concept of the trinity is not correct as currently understood by Christianity.

Is the idea that Jesus is the only means of salvation true? (do not redefine the words “Only means of salvation,” into however you understand it but instead how Christians understand it)

As a Christian understands it No

Are you capable of distinguishing between the Christian conception and the bahai conception of these words? Words which the bahai have claimed as their own but mean something totally different?

Yes we are aware of the differences.

God Bless and Regards Tony

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

I can do this for you but I do no think it will be a “decent answer”, It will be like an empty lamp, that is, without light, or a word without meaning. These answers have been previously posted, but as a fuller explanation

The single word answer to that question is Yes

The concept of the trinity is not correct as currently understood by Christianity.

As a Christian understands it No

Yes we are aware of the differences.

God Bless and Regards Tony

So what Christian doctrine, as Christians understand, is true?

Not moral teaching but doctrine, dogma and ritual.

Take in mind, saying things like “Jesus being the son of God” must be understood how Christians understand them.

 

[Servant19]

So what Christian doctrine, as Christians understand, is true?

Not moral teaching but doctrine, dogma and ritual.

Take in mind, saying things like “Jesus being the son of God” must be understood how Christians understand them.

Happy to answer this question if I can get one straight answer from every Christian I dialogue with to this question: (maybe someone can help . )

What is the difference between Jesus being the Son of God and Him being God? We have two statements. Jesus is God, and Jesus is the Son of God. What’s the difference?
(Let’s not even introduce the idea that Jesus always called Himself the Son of Man)

Thankyou

.

 

[tonyfish58]

So what Christian doctrine, as Christians understand, is true?

Not moral teaching but doctrine, dogma and ritual.

Take in mind, saying things like “Jesus being the son of God” must be understood how Christians understand them.

IgnatianPhilo - That dear friend is a good question. I will give my understanding of the answer. This is not an official Baha’i view dear friend, just my views with my understanding of the Writings.

Personally I think they all contain the Truth for the age they were revealed! Even now IMHO they STILL contain elements of the Truth.

The context as I see it is that they were all valid until they were further clarified by the subsequent messages from God.

Now as to the question that what Doctrine is True in the context to which you have stated, that is, “must be understood how Christians understand them”. This is where to give a blunt answer as “None” does not shed light upon the Whole Truth, because as said above “they STILL contain elements of the Truth”.

If you wanted to explore doctrine, dogma and ritual as believed by the Christians in the Context of What Baha’u’llah has Revealed, then it would be a good topic of conversation of another thread.

In the end one must follow their own Heart and come to Know and Love God within their own understanding. Each must walk their own path of faith!

May we all Love God with all our Heart and Soul and explore Fellowship before Division. Regards Tony

 

[tonyfish58]

the best proof that Bahaullah is not a servant, or a manifestation, or in any way representative of the one God is the fact that Bahaullah did not worship the One God’s Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity in the Holy Eucharist.

it is beyond unbelievable, it is absurd to think that the One God would send some one to reject the Gift of the One God’s Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity in the Holy Eucharist.

it is totally convincing to have the understanding that if Bahaullah in any way represented the One God Bahaullah would have worshipped the One God in the Holy Eucharist at every opportunity.

Bahaullah’s very life and all of his writings testify that he does not know the One God present Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity.

that is really all one needs to know when evaluating the truth(s) contained in the Bahai system of thought and belief.

if there is any portion of the truth in the teachings of Bahaullah, it is purely by chance and it has nothing to do with divine inspiration or grace.

eddie too - Here are some thoughts for you dear friend.

Do you think the standards you have set for God to reveal all His Glory would be Gods Standards, or would you not think that God May Set His Own Standards?

I have pulled some quotes out of Religious Writings on this subject that may be worth considering!

"…Among them is the tradition, “And when the Standard of Truth is made manifest, the people of both the East and the West curse it…”

“…One hour’s reflection is preferable to seventy years of pious worship” must needs be observed, so that the secret of the wretched behaviour of the people might be discovered, those people who, despite the love and yearning for truth which they profess, curse the followers of Truth when once He hath been made manifest…"

“…It is evident that the reason for such behaviour is none other than the annulment of those rules, customs, habits, and ceremonials to which they have been subjected…”

“…Behold, how, notwithstanding these and similar traditions, they idly contend that the laws formerly revealed, must in no wise be altered. And yet, is not the object of every Revelation to effect a transformation in the whole character of mankind, a transformation that shall manifest itself both outwardly and inwardly, that shall affect both its inner life and external conditions? For if the character of mankind be not changed, the futility of God’s universal Manifestations would be apparent…”

reference.bahai.org/en/t/b/KI/ki-8.html#pg238

Faith must be dependent on submitting to the fact that;

The spirit that animateth the human heart is the knowledge of God, and its truest adorning is the recognition of the truth that “He doeth whatsoever He willeth, and ordaineth that which He pleaseth.” Its raiment is the fear of God, and its perfection steadfastness in His Faith. Thus God instructeth whosoever seeketh Him. He, verily, loveth the one that turneth towards Him. There is none other God but Him, the Forgiving, the Most Bountiful. All praise be to God, the Lord of all worlds.

God bless your Love and Regards Tony

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

IgnatianPhilo - That dear friend is a good question. I will give my understanding of the answer. This is not an official Baha’i view dear friend, just my views with my understanding of the Writings.

Personally I think they all contain the Truth for the age they were revealed! Even now IMHO they STILL contain elements of the Truth.

The context as I see it is that they were all valid until they were further clarified by the subsequent messages from God.

Now as to the question that what Doctrine is True in the context to which you have stated, that is, “must be understood how Christians understand them”. This is where to give a blunt answer as “None” does not shed light upon the Whole Truth, because as said above “they STILL contain elements of the Truth”.

If you wanted to explore doctrine, dogma and ritual as believed by the Christians in the Context of What Baha’u’llah has Revealed, then it would be a good topic of conversation of another thread.

In the end one must follow their own Heart and come to Know and Love God within their own understanding. Each must walk their own path of faith!

May we all Love God with all our Heart and Soul and explore Fellowship before Division. Regards Tony

Which doctrine do the Christians believe that possibly contains an element of truth? For instance, when Ignatius in the second century said that Jesus was God, was that a true doctrine? Or when the Gospel of John says that Jesus is the creator of the world or when Hebrews says that Jesus is the same Yesterday today and forever, is that also true?

You have been more clear hear however than before and I really do appreciate that. When did the Christians start believing in false things? I would say, judging by the evidence, it must have been right from the beginning with the apostles failing to grasp the universality of Jesus which you affirm. That they did not believe your doctrines.

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

Happy to answer this question if I can get one straight answer from every Christian I dialogue with to this question: (maybe someone can help . )

What is the difference between Jesus being the Son of God and Him being God? We have two statements. Jesus is God, and Jesus is the Son of God. What’s the difference?
(Let’s not even introduce the idea that Jesus always called Himself the Son of Man)

Thankyou

.

Open another thread and I’ll answer it. I’m sticking to the topic of this thread.

 

[Servant19]

Which doctrine do the Christians believe that possibly contains an element of truth? For instance, when Ignatius in the second century said that Jesus was God, was that a true doctrine? Or when the Gospel of John says that Jesus is the creator of the world or when Hebrews says that Jesus is the same Yesterday today and forever, is that also true?

You have been more clear hear however than before and I really do appreciate that. When did the Christians start believing in false things? I would say, judging by the evidence, it must have been right from the beginning with the apostles failing to grasp the universality of Jesus which you affirm. That they did not believe your doctrines.

Dear friend, the understanding of “who” God is, is gradually “unfolding” from Revelation to Revelation, Person to Person.

When something unfolds over time, it is the Truth up until the next stage of “unfoldment” is offered (through Revelation)…so to say that “Christians believed in false things” is an error in a thorough understanding of what “unfoldment” really means.

I hope that reads ok (my ability to explain this is evolving too)



.

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

Dear friend, the understanding of “who” God is, is gradually “unfolding” from Revelation to Revelation, Person to Person.

When something unfolds over time, it is the Truth up until the next stage of “unfoldment” is offered (through Revelation)…so to say that “Christians believed in false things” is an error in a thorough understanding of what “unfoldment” really means.

I hope that reads ok (my ability to explain this is evolving too)



.

Unfolding is one thing, Contradiction is another.

You cannot say the doctrines of Christianity are true. You don’t build upon our doctrines but rather you seem to reject them entirely. How for instance is it unfolding when we have Christ, depicted as God, creating the universe, being the same yesterday today and forever, being the one to whom every knee will bow, then in the next revelation (Muhammad) abjectly denying Jesus is God and those that say it are in error? (Surah 5:72)

That is not building on it. But as if it weren’t confusing enough, you bahai proudly proclaim that Jesus was God, whatever that means. But then you proclaim all the manifestations God whatever that means. It’s difficult to tell whether you have a polytheism or monotheism.

It would be one thing, for the Christian religion to say certain things, and not have the quran completely overturn what is said regarding the Christian religion but merely add to it, but that’s not what has happened at all.

Can you affirm, the Godhead, the trinity is limited to the father son and Holy spirit? Can you even affirm the trinity? (Don’t say you agree with the trinity while maintaining your own. See I still don’t trust you to not redefine the words in my sentences of the questions I ask).

 

[tonyfish58]

Which doctrine do the Christians believe that possibly contains an element of truth? For instance, when Ignatius in the second century said that Jesus was God, was that a true doctrine? Or when the Gospel of John says that Jesus is the creator of the world or when Hebrews says that Jesus is the same Yesterday today and forever, is that also true?

You have been more clear hear however than before and I really do appreciate that. When did the Christians start believing in false things? I would say, judging by the evidence, it must have been right from the beginning with the apostles failing to grasp the universality of Jesus which you affirm. That they did not believe your doctrines.

Dear IgnatianPhilo - As i said above I think they all Contain elements of the Truth.

Lets examine the Trinity - There is the Father, there is the Son and there is the Holy Spirit

These all combine into the Truth as the Christian currently understand it. Now when did this start becoming a truth wrapped in veils! IMHO it would be around the time of the formulation of the Nicene Creed. This took the ability of all people to be able to think about these passages and Form their own view and understanding. It set how someone had to think.

To me God gives free will for a purpose, that is so we can make choices! It is a far bigger topic than a few words in this post and we can never give this Topic enough discussion!

Thus when Muhammad came, he warned Christianity that they were heading along a path that would become the Clouds that would obscure a persons vision when God again revealed Himself. Again a never ending topic!

All the rest also contain an element of Truth

Christ can Claim to be God, Christ can Claim to be the Son of God, He can Claim to be the First and the Last etc etc and it is all an element of the Truth.

Christ said I have more to say unto you for a reason, there would be a time when we could appreciate the more He had to say. But in His time the world was still only so small, the vision could not take in the Unity of Mankind, the Resources and conditions were not available to make it so!

The rise and fall of Islam Understanding is also the same. Again a never ending topic for discussion.

The all embracing Love of God is a Wonderful thing - God Bless and Regards Tony

 

[tonyfish58]

Unfolding is one thing, Contradiction is another.

You cannot say the doctrines of Christianity are true. You don’t build upon our doctrines but rather you seem to reject them entirely. How for instance is it unfolding when we have Christ, depicted as God, creating the universe, being the same yesterday today and forever, being the one to whom every knee will bow, then in the next revelation (Muhammad) abjectly denying Jesus is God and those that say it are in error? (Surah 5:72)

That is not building on it. But as if it weren’t confusing enough, you bahai proudly proclaim that Jesus was God, whatever that means. But then you proclaim all the manifestations God whatever that means. It’s difficult to tell whether you have a polytheism or monotheism.

It would be one thing, for the Christian religion to say certain things, and not have the quran completely overturn what is said regarding the Christian religion but merely add to it, but that’s not what has happened at all.

Can you affirm, the Godhead, the trinity is limited to the father son and Holy spirit? Can you even affirm the trinity? (Don’t say you agree with the trinity while maintaining your own. See I still don’t trust you to not redefine the words in my sentences of the questions I ask).

IgnatianPhilo - From what I read of your replies dear friend in God is the approach to how one thinks about it.

As I said above the thinking has been formulated for people. When a person tries to lower these barriers for a wider point of view, The alarm Bells go off as one also has been warned that one can not go outside these set parameters!

Knowledge becomes a barrier to Truth, this is one of the amazing things with Gods revelations. Knowledge does not mean one will actually Know and Love God - It has to come from the heart - The Heart Being Pure, Kind and Radiant. Humility is also a necessarily!

God Bless and Regards tony