One correct religion with the Truth (part 2)?

[SteveVH]

What I was asking is that do any Christian church believe in Rama, and Buddha, etc are manifestations of God? Or put it this way, they believe that the Holy Spirit has revealed to them these things?

MJ

Okay. The answer is a definite NO. The Catholic Church, however, recognizes and embraces any and all things that are true within any religion. We cannot deny truth regardless of where it resides. The Church calls these truths within non-Christian religions “seeds of truth” and considers them a foreshadowing of the Gospel.

 

[SteveVH]

Hi Steve, thankyou for this informative post. I am aware of the Apostolic Succession and how wonderfully well it has worked within Catholicism and the Orthodox Church

I also understand what you are saying in that Tradition “precedes” the Book.

My perspective I wish to present for you to consider is that an educator does not teach kindergarten children university material. Likewise, an All-Wise Educator surpasses the wisdom of us mere mortals within our establishments and establishes the Tabernacle of Revelation to be progressive also. This principle was clearly outlined by Paul.

In the pagan climate, Revelation was catered to draw and attract the souls of men to the Citadel of God. As I have mentioned, there is nothing wrong and incorrect with asking the peoples of the world at that time to worship Jesus as God. This was the “milk” that was required for the pagan populations to be drawn towards the One True God, and that was the man Jesus Christ.

Yet today, we can reasonably and logically deduce that it is impossible for mortal man to “deduce” such things. In order for man to say someone is God, there are only two options:

1. Jesus said the words “I am God, true God from true God, you worship me and me alone, there is nothing and no-one higher than I”…categorically and explicitly. No room to maneuver. Jesus did not say that, otherwise it would have been recorded amongst all the other recorded sayings.

OR

1. Man knows and can define God. If man knows and can define God, then they can logically deduce that Jesus was God, since He fits all the defined parameters. In order for man to define God, he would need to be greater than God. Impossible.

So, today, we have moved forward from the milk that Paul fed the masses during the Christian Era, we are able to partake of the “solid food”, and that has been bountifully provided by Baha’u’llah

Hope that helps in the understanding of our position.



.

Yes, I understand very well your position. Christ was not sufficient. He only fed us milk and we would have to wait, first for Muhammad who would move us on to semi-solid food and ultimately for Baha’u’llah who would finally give us solid food.

And this is where we will never come to terms. This is the Catholic position concerning Christ:

“In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe. The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word.” (Hebrews 1:1-3)

IOW, Jesus is God’s final revelation of Himself to mankind. We look to no one else. Jesus even warned us of those such as Baha’u’llah who would claim to be him.

*“If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. See, I have told you ahead of time.

“So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather."* (Matthew 24:22-28)

I see no point in continuing to argue the point. I think you and I and many others are blue in the face already. As for me and my house we will serve Jesus and no other.

God bless.

Steve

 

[SteveVH]

What is the commandment of Jesus towards a serial rapist of children in your neighbourhood?

What does love look like in this case?

We must first protect the children by placing this man where he can do no more harm (behind bars). Then we must pray for his salvation. That is why we cannot abide capital punishment. We want to give even the most heinous criminal every opportunity we can to repent and turn toward God. That is love.

 

[MartinJordan]

Okay. The answer is a definite NO.

Right. So if anyone uses the excuse that because there are 20,000 “denominations” or 30,000 whatever…is NOT an excuse to deny Jesus as THE Prophet, Savior and KING and decide to look for one Faith that accepts the other large religions leaders that they are from God. Only Jesus is God and from God and through Jesus and no other name in Heaven or Earth is the fullness of Truth.

Nobody or thing even before our Lord (Divine and Human) or after, walked the earth can claim this title.

Jesus IS the Alpha and Omega.

The Catholic Church does accept some of the truths from other faiths, but no further than that. It will only champion Jesus Christ.

Amen!

MJ

 

[Servant19]

Right.

Nobody or thing even before our Lord (Divine and Human) or after, walked the earth can claim this title.

Jesus IS the Alpha and Omega.

MJ

Dear Martin, hope you’re having a nice day

May I ask if you have read the Bhagavad Gita?

I believe Lord Krsna who roamed the earth long before Christ may be the original Alpha and Omega

We can all be short-sighted and think we are the “chosen ones” and bend our energies to prove it so, but a wider view of reality often proves us wrong…

To deny Krsna as THE Prophet, Lord and King is nonsensical, especially since Sacred Tradition plays such an important role in BOTH Hinduism and Catholicism.
.

 

[Servant19]

Yes, I understand very well your position. Christ was not sufficient. He only fed us milk and we would have to wait, first for Muhammad who would move us on to semi-solid food and ultimately for Baha’u’llah who would finally give us solid food.

And this is where we will never come to terms. This is the Catholic position concerning Christ:

“In the past God spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom also he made the universe. The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word.” (Hebrews 1:1-3)

IOW, Jesus is God’s final revelation of Himself to mankind. We look to no one else. Jesus even warned us of those such as Baha’u’llah who would claim to be him.

*“If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. See, I have told you ahead of time.

“So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather."* (Matthew 24:22-28)

I see no point in continuing to argue the point. I think you and I and many others are blue in the face already. As for me and my house we will serve Jesus and no other.

God bless.

Steve

Thankyou dear Steve

I acknowledge you are getting tired. I would humbly ask that you study Justin Martyrs interview with Trypho.

You are using the same arguments as Trypho did…

The rejection of Christ in his synagogue after reading the scroll of Isaiah and the rejection of Baha’u’llah by some quarters of modern day “synagogues” found in Christian and Islamic circles is one and the same…

This truly is the Day of Judgement

.

 

[MartinJordan]

Dear Martin, hope you’re having a nice day

May I ask if you have read the Bhagavad Gita?

I believe Lord Krsna who roamed the earth long before Christ may be the original Alpha and Omega

We can all be short-sighted and think we are the “chosen ones” and bend our energies to prove it so, but a wider view of reality often proves us wrong…

To deny Krsna as THE Prophet, Lord and King is nonsensical, especially since Sacred Tradition plays such an important role in BOTH Hinduism and Catholicism.
.

Im fine thank you and hope the same with you.

For info 600 years ago my ancestors were Hindus. We still respect Hindus but Jesus (the Son of God) existed before Krishna was in the imagination of mortal man.

When you say short sighted this is only your human opinion. Christians are looking way beyond that. Im only proud of proclaiming Jesus is Lord, No Lords before nor after.

MJ

 

[JamesCarr]

Thankyou kindly for your patience dear James
Sometimes contributing to a new heaven and a new earth is time consuming and when the Holy Spirit consumes you it can be a few days away

I will attempt to offer my own understandings from my study of the Baha’i Writings to your questions below.

Dear friend, let me try to explain that Baha’u’llah is Jesus and Jesus is Baha’u’llah. They are manifested in different human Temples, at different periods in human history, but in the realm of Divinity and in the Realm of the Word, they are one and the same Being.

So, I think the answer to this question is deducible by reason alone. Would Christians be condemned (I despise that word btw ) if they rejected Christ?

Hence Baha’u’llah’s emphatic statement:

Now please note that the word “Beauty” here refers to the Divinity of Baha’u’llah which is one and the same as the Divinity of Christ. So if you have recognized Christ correctly and according to His original teachings and REvelation, one cannot fail to recognize the fulfillment in Christs teachings and commandments that Baha’u’llah provides in His Revelation.

Please go ahead and study the teachings of Baha’u’llah…it cannot fail to inspire and in my opinion is faultless in its abounding love and mercy for humanity as a whole

info.bahai.org/bahaullah-basic-teachings.html

Dear beloved friend, I feel I am not in a position to judge who will “lose out in their glory”, and who will “attain entry into heaven”

What I described above in terms of Jesus and Baha’u’llah being one and the same and sharing the same “Beauty” may be something you can fast and pray about, study, meditate and beg God to show you the Truth. Hopefully then you can at least say that you were genuine and sincere in your “intent” towards God’s Beauty. Your decisions from there are whats correct for your relationship and righteousness before God

There was only one Christ, and one Messiah, Jesus Christ. These are “titles” which reflect a specific station held by Jesus.

If you look at Abraham, Moses, Muhammad, the Bab and Baha’u’llah, they all had “titles”, Baha’u’llah’s being the “Glory of the Lord”

Thankyou and God bless you dear friend

.

Thank you for replying Servant.

Just to remind you, Baha’u’llah did not descend from heaven. Neither was he resurrected. He is not Jesus. He died. Dust to dust, ashes to ashes. Period. All Bahai does is to go around every religion and chop up the teachings while picking out the pieces they favor for their own self-made religion, and dumping the rest they dislike. A “religion” clothed by all other religions made to deceive. Harsh statements yes, but deserving of nothing less. If I speak the Truth, I will speak it aloud boldly.

Acts 1:11
10And as they were gazing intently into the sky while He was going, behold, two men in white clothing stood beside them. 11They also said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into the sky? This Jesus, who has been taken up from you into heaven, will come in just the same way as you have watched Him go into heaven.”

Baha’u’llah is not Jesus in His Second Coming. Baha’u’llah did not descend to earth in his bodily form as promised (IF he really is Jesus). Jesus was resurrected in His Body, ascended into heaven in His Body and will descend in the same Body which He gave us as the New Covenant.

I have reached a conclusion myself after reading the answers here and all the other threads here concerning the Bahai faith. All I see are stubborn arguments and the re-interpretation of our Scriptures by the Bahai faith.

I cannot see that there can be any way after over 5000 posts in regards of the topic, that there is anyone else who can turn them from the erroneous views but of course, those in the Bahai faith will think otherwise.

Applauding the charity shown by Catholic Answers for allowing the Bahai faith to keep up all their erroneous threads, I have decided to “shake the dust off my feet” here and stop feeding this thread.

 

[Servant19]

Applauding the charity shown by Catholic Answers for allowing the Bahai faith to keep up all their erroneous threads, I have decided to “shake the dust off my feet” here and stop feeding this thread.

Firstly, I am sorry you feel this way.

I was under the impression that dialogue was a reasonable aspect of the charity shown by Catholics? I know that to be true with so many Catholics I am friends with here in Australia, why should it be otherwise here?

If anything I, or other Baha’is, write are erroneous, it is the “patient” and “charitable” and “loving” approach of the dear Catholic friends I expect to see in response, not one of “stop feeding this thread”… our questions to be reasonably answered

I apologize to you dear friend, and hope that any offense I have obviously caused is not one that has been frowned upon by God

God bless you

.

 

[MartinJordan]

I cannot see that there can be any way after over 5000 posts in regards of the topic…

MJ

 

[Servant19]

Thank you for replying Servant.

Just to remind you, Baha’u’llah did not descend from heaven. Neither was he resurrected. He is not Jesus. He died. Dust to dust, ashes to ashes. Period. All Bahai does is to go around every religion and chop up the teachings while picking out the pieces they favor for their own self-made religion, and dumping the rest they dislike. A “religion” clothed by all other religions made to deceive. Harsh statements yes, but deserving of nothing less. If I speak the Truth, I will speak it aloud boldly.

Acts 1:11
10And as they were gazing intently into the sky while He was going, behold, two men in white clothing stood beside them. 11They also said, “Men of Galilee, why do you stand looking into the sky? This Jesus, who has been taken up from you into heaven, will come in just the same way as you have watched Him go into heaven.”

Baha’u’llah is not Jesus in His Second Coming. Baha’u’llah did not descend to earth in his bodily form as promised (IF he really is Jesus). Jesus was resurrected in His Body, ascended into heaven in His Body and will descend in the same Body which He gave us as the New Covenant.

So, dear friend James, here is a question, and I understand if you do not answer since you have removed yourself from here (in which case others may wish to chip in)

How exactly did the Prophet Elijah come down from heaven in bodily form to herald the coming of the Messiah, as clearly prophesied in the Old Testament?



.

 

[Servant19]

Im fine thank you and hope the same with you.

For info 600 years ago my ancestors were Hindus. We still respect Hindus but Jesus (the Son of God) existed before Krishna was in the imagination of mortal man.

When you say short sighted this is only your human opinion. Christians are looking way beyond that. Im only proud of proclaiming Jesus is Lord, No Lords before nor after.

MJ

I will humbly ask another question dear friend.

When you say:

“… but Jesus (the Son of God) existed before Krishna was in the imagination of mortal man. ”

…is it because you did not know that Lord Krsna said this, or you understand this differently to what it is saying, or is it because you choose to ignore it?

---

“Never was there a time when I did not exist, nor you, nor all these kings; …”*** - Lord Krsna, Bhagavad Gita

God bless you dear friend

.

 

[MartinJordan]

I will humbly ask another question dear friend.

When you say:

“… but Jesus (the Son of God) existed before Krishna was in the imagination of mortal man. ”

…is it because you did not know that Lord Krsna said this, or you understand this differently to what it is saying, or is it because you choose to ignore it?

---

“Never was there a time when I did not exist, nor you, nor all these kings; …”*** - Lord Krsna, Bhagavad Gita

God bless you dear friend

.

There is one name under Heaven and Earth. It is NOT Lord Krishna. You know that Christians don’t believe in the latter who had apparently said what is said in the Bhagavad Gita.

There’s no history beyond the one God who created everything.

From the DECLARATION ON
THE RELATION OF THE CHURCH TO NON-CHRISTIAN RELIGIONS
NOSTRA AETATE
PROCLAIMED BY HIS HOLINESS
POPE PAUL VI
ON OCTOBER 28, 1965

The Catholic Church rejects nothing that is true and holy in these religions. She regards with sincere reverence those ways of conduct and of life, those precepts and teachings which, though differing in many.aspects from the ones she holds and sets forth, nonetheless often reflect a ray of that Truth which enlightens all men. Indeed, she proclaims, **and ever must proclaim Christ “the way, the truth, and the life” (John 14:6), in whom men may find the fullness of religious life, in whom God has reconciled all things to himself. **

MJ

 

[Servant19]

There is one name under Heaven and Earth. It is NOT Lord Krishna. You know that Christians don’t believe in the latter.

There’s no history beyond the one God who created everything.

MJ

Dear friend, you expressed the eternal nature of Jesus was only found in Jesus. (because He claimed it)

I responded with the fact that Krsna also claimed it, with a quote from the Gita.

Why is Jesus to take precedence from Krsna?

I cannot follow the logic here, if you would be so kind to explain it

.

 

[Servant19]

From the DECLARATION ON
THE RELATION OF THE CHURCH TO NON-CHRISTIAN RELIGIONS
NOSTRA AETATE
PROCLAIMED BY HIS HOLINESS
POPE PAUL VI
ON OCTOBER 28, 1965

The Catholic Church rejects nothing that is true and holy in these religions. She regards with sincere reverence those ways of conduct and of life, those precepts and teachings which, though differing in many.aspects from the ones she holds and sets forth, nonetheless often reflect a ray of that Truth which enlightens all men. Indeed, she proclaims, **and ever must proclaim Christ “the way, the truth, and the life” (John 14:6), in whom men may find the fullness of religious life, in whom God has reconciled all things to himself. **

MJ

This is saying a different thing dear friend.

Christ saying He is the way and the life does not mean that He was the ONLY pre-existent, and eternal being ever to walk the earth

If you disagree, can you please share with me your reasoning?

.

 

[MartinJordan]

Dear friend, you expressed the eternal nature of Jesus was only found in Jesus. (because He claimed it)

I responded with the fact that Krsna also claimed it, with a quote from the Gita.

Why is Jesus to take precedence from Krsna?

I cannot follow the logic here, if you would be so kind to explain it

.

The logic is that we Christians are focused on one God. You’ve already had your chance to debate with a Hindu and he was not impressed with what you are putting forth.

MJ

 

[MartinJordan]

This is saying a different thing dear friend.

Christ saying He is the way and the life does not mean that He was the ONLY pre-existent, and eternal being ever to walk the earth

If you disagree, can you please share with me your reasoning?

.

You aren’t learning Servant, just the same ole same ole “Jesus didn’t say it…”

MJ

 

[Servant19]

The logic is that we Christians are focused on one God. You’ve already had your chance to debate with a Hindu and he was not impressed with what you are putting forth.

MJ

Can you please show me where I debated with a Hindu about the Divine nature of Lord Krsna? and he was not impressed

(for the record, I believe that Lord Krsna was the creator of the earth and the universe and the heavens, ad was indeed pre-existent)

Thankyou dear friend. I just cant remember doing that

.

 

[MartinJordan]

Can you please show me where I debated with a Hindu about the Divine nature of Lord Krsna? and he was not impressed

(for the record, I believe that Lord Krsna was the creator of the earth and the universe and the heavens, ad was indeed pre-existent)

Thankyou dear friend. I just cant remember doing that

.

Im only concerned with being focused especially when it comes to Salvation. You can start your own thread about Krishna if you feel so inclined.

MJ

 

[Servant19]

Im only concerned with being focused especially when it comes to Salvation. You can start your own thread about Krishna if you feel so inclined.

MJ

Thankyou dear Martin.

I don’t think we are here talking about Krsna. We are talking about Jesus and why you are claiming He is unique when Krsna made the same claims and did more powerful miracles at a significant period of time beforehand.

I guess what I’m trying to humbly convey is that one cannot live a life of Faith without reconciling the claims and uniqueness of other important Figures throughout history.

These Figures have shaped human welfare for the BETTER in a dramatic sense and cannot be blindly brushed aside…

That is the key to this thread

.