One correct religion with the Truth (part 2)?

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Dear friend,

Maybe I have missed something and I would be happy to acknowledge all evidence, but I see nothing in these documents indicating the killing of Mormons because they would not recant their Faith.

Sure there were massacres, but there are massacres of all sorts of people due to religious or racial prejudice. This is not about the massacre, this is about the power of the Holy Spirit.

When asked to “recant or die” how many Mormons chose death?

Now having said all this, I am sure there will be some. For heavens sake, there are many deceivers out there who will trap many into thinking they are God, but the point that is being made is this…

What is it that made Peter acknowledge Jesus is the Son of the Living God?

What makes a religion the Truth.

Let us be honest, in terms of the lives they led, there is not much different between Jesus and Krishna, so why the uniqueness of Christ is clung to, at the extermination of all other Divine Beings?

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I do not see any reason why there must be a need for evidences to show the “recant or die”.

Are those deaths not persecution?

Are they not valid in the eyes of Baha’i? Are those sacrifices not enough?

At what price is death enough?

They died because they are Mormons and they died a Mormon!
 
Now having said all this, I am sure there will be some. For heavens sake, there are many deceivers out there who will trap many into thinking they are God, but the point that is being made is this…
QUOTE]

Deceivers? You were saying again?

Divine beings?

I will be back in a couple hrs and we will continue dear friend.

We will continue our discussion on divine beings when I reach home in abit. I will prove to you that ONE of these so-called “divine beings” Baha’i have so proudly and disrespectfully added to their faith has claimed that he is not divine at all, neither was he a messenger at all.

Peace,
JC
 
I do not see any reason why there must be a need for evidences to show the “recant or die”.

Are those deaths not persecution?

Are they not valid in the eyes of Baha’i? Are those sacrifices not enough?

At what price is death enough?

They died because they are Mormons and they died a Mormon!
Yes and I could be die as a result of anti-Middle East animosities in Australia. It doesn’t mean I was put to the sword and my Faith won out.

That’s true martyrdom…

But in the Bahai Faith there is even more noble station than this, but that’s for another thread…

🙂

Dear James, going back to our Elijah days, there is a lot of my questions which are as yet unanswered. Please might I ask for your perspective?

🙂

.
 
JamesCarr;12238430:
Now having said all this, I am sure there will be some. For heavens sake, there are many deceivers out there who will trap many into thinking they are God, but the point that is being made is this…
QUOTE]

Deceivers? You were saying again?

Divine beings?

I will be back in a couple hrs and we will continue dear friend.

We will continue our discussion on divine beings when I reach home in abit. I will prove to you that ONE of these so-called “divine beings” Baha’i have so proudly and disrespectfully added to their faith has claimed that he is not divine at all, neither was he a messenger at all.

Peace,
JC
Thankyou dear friend, I look forward to your thoughts 🙂

There were many Messiahs during Jesus’ time, some would argue Jesus was a deceiver like the rest of them. Only Jesus religious system survived…

In like manner there were many claimants of the return of Jesus throughout history since Jesus’ first coming.
Only Baha’u’llah’s religious system survives. And what a glorious, and stupendous one it is. Every single day, it gets better and offers hope to a hopeless global civilization.

God bless you.

.
 
Dear James, going back to our Elijah days, there is a lot of my questions which are as yet unanswered. Please might I ask for your perspective?
Why are we going in circles? I stated what I need to state there but obviously our views do not meet so there is nothing much to prove about that topic apart from your view vs the Catholic view, to which we both think ourselves right.

Now moving on, lets talk about one of Baha’i claims of the Buddha being God’s manifestation or a messenger of God. I cannot help but thank God that I wandered into Theravada Buddhism many years back, studied the Pali canon of the Buddhist texts and almost took the tonsure to live a life of seclusion and poverty before my conversion into Catholicism. Those years were not spent in vain here. If I can prove one figure in Baha’i claims that he is not divine or a manifestation of God or even a messenger of God, I will have also prove that Baha’i teachings are fallible in all its entirety.

The Buddha Siddartha Gautama lived around 500 years before Jesus and Moses was long gone from the picture. Hinduism was thriving when the Buddha himself was born, and Hinduism teach about one “god” which spreads around the universe. At that time, the Buddha after attaining enlightenment had to borrow Hinduism terms, like dharma, dukkha etc, in order for the people to be able to relate in an easier way to his teachings. Bear in mind, he never intended to teach in the first place because he knows it is hard for them to learn, but was persuaded by yogis to do so.

The Buddha did not teach a one God and refused to comment on the subject. He further taught that nothing is eternal, and that all things and beings are impermanent. If he recognize that God exists then, he would have taught it when his disciples questioned him. Surely God is well known then during the times of Hinduism thriving in that place, as well as it fits within the timeline of Moses and Jesus! Why wouldn’t he teach about God since God is an all important teaching?

The Buddha did not teach of a creator deity, but he did speak of creation. The Buddha clearly taught that all phenomena are “created” by means of cause and effect determined by natural law. Further, the course of our lives is determined by karma, which we create. Karma is not being directed by a supernatural intelligence but is its own natural law. This is what the Buddha taught. In Buddhism, there is no teaching of a First Cause. If he is a messenger of God or a manifestation of God, why was God not taught at all by him?

All he taught is the Four Noble Truths and the Noble Eightfold Paths, Dependent Origination, non-attachment & many more in the Pali canon which is the first recorded & most accurate texts of Buddhism.

Gautama Buddha rejected the existence of a creator deity, refused to endorse many views on creation and stated that questions on the origin of the world are not ultimately useful for ending suffering. And he teaches reincarnation.

Gautama even reject being worshipped when monks and yogis alike came before him to worship him. He states he is only a man like them, only that he attained enlightenment.

Thus I will summarize about Buddhism here:
  1. There is no almighty God in Buddhism. There is no one to hand out rewards or punishments on a supposedly Judgement Day.
  2. Buddhism is strictly not a religion in the context of being a faith and worship owing allegiance to a supernatural being.
  3. No saviour concept in Buddhism. A Buddha is not a saviour who saves others by his personal salvation. Although a Buddhist seeks refuge in the Buddha as his incomparable guide who indicates the path of purity, he makes no servile surrender. A Buddhist does not think that he can gain purity merely by seeking refuge in the Buddha or by mere faith in Him. It is not within the power of a Buddha to wash away the impurities of others
  4. A Buddha is not an incarnation of a god/God (as claimed by some Hindu followers). The relationship between a Buddha and his disciples and followers is that of a teacher and student.
  5. The liberation of self is the responsibility of one’s own self. Buddhism does not call for an unquestionable blind faith by all Buddhist followers. It places heavy emphasis on self-reliance, self discipline and individual striving.
  6. Taking refuge in The Triple Gems i.e. the Buddha, the Dharma and the Sangha; does not mean self-surrender or total reliance on an external force or third party for help or salvation.
  7. Dharma (the teachings in Buddhism) exists regardless whether there is a Buddha. Sakyamuni Buddha (as the historical Buddha) discovered and shared the teachings/ universal truths with all sentient beings. He is neither the creator of such teachings nor the prophet of an almighty God to transmit such teachings to others.
  8. Especially emphasized in Mahayana Buddhism, all sentient beings have Buddha Nature/ Essence. One can become a Buddha (a supreme enlightened being) in due course if one practises diligently and attains purity of mind (ie absolutely no delusions or afflictions).
  9. In Buddhism, the ultimate objective of followers/practitioners is enlightenment and/or liberation from Samsara; rather than to go to a Heaven (or a deva realm in the context of Buddhist cosmology).
  10. Karma and Karma Force are cornerstones in Buddhist doctrines. They are expounded very thoroughly in Buddhism. Karma refers to an important metaphysical concept concerned with action and its consequences. This law of karma explains the problem of sufferings, the mystery of the so-called fate and predestination of some religions, and above all the apparent inequality of mankind.
 
  1. Rebirth is another key doctrine in Buddhism and it goes hand in hand with karma. There is a subtle difference between rebirth and reincarnation as expounded in Hinduism. Buddhism rejects the theory of a transmigrating permanent soul, whether created by a god or emanating from a divine essence.
  2. Maitri or Metta in Pali (Loving Kindness) and Karuna (Compassion) to all living beings including animals. Buddhism strictly forbids animal sacrifice for whatever reason. Vegetarianism is recommended but not compulsory.
  3. The importance of Non-attachment. Buddhism goes beyond doing good and being good. One must not be attached to good deeds or the idea of doing good; otherwise it is just another form of craving.
  4. In Buddhism, there is consideration for all sentient beings (versus human beings, as in other religions). Buddhists acknowledge/accept the existence of animals and beings in other realms in Samsara.
  5. No holy war concept in Buddhism. Killing is breaking a key moral precept in Buddhism. One is strictly forbidden to kill another person in the name of religion, a religious leader or whatsoever religious pretext or worldly excuse.
  6. Suffering is another cornerstone in Buddhism. It is the first of the Four Noble Truths. Sufferings are very well analysed and explained in Buddhism.
  7. The idea of sin or original sin has no place in Buddhism. Also, sin should not be equated to suffering.
  8. Buddhist teachings expound no beginning and no end to one’s existence or life. There is virtually no recognition of a first cause — e.g. how does human existence first come about?
  9. The Dharma provides a very detailed explanation of the doctrine of anatman {anatta in Pali} or soullessness , i.e. there is no soul entity (whether in one life of many lives).
  10. Prajna [Panna in Pali] or Transcendent Wisdom occupies a paramount position in Buddhist teachings. Sakyamuni Buddha expounded Prajna concepts for some 20 years of his ministry. One is taught to balance compassion with prajna i.e.emotion (faith) with rationale (right understanding / truth / logic).
  11. The tradition and practice of meditation in Buddhism are relatively important and strong. While all religions teach some forms or variations of stabilising/single-pointedness meditation, only Buddhism emphazises Vipassana (Insight) meditation as a powerful tool to assist one in seeking liberation/enlightenment.
  12. The doctrine of Sunyata or Emptiness is unique to Buddhism and its many aspects are well expounded in advanced Buddhist teachings. Briefly, this doctrine asserts the transcendental nature of Ultimate Reality. It declares the phenomenal world to be void of all limitations of particularization and that all concepts of dualism are abolished.
  13. Conditioned Arising [Paticcasamuppada in Pali] or Dependent Origination is another key doctrine in Buddhism. This doctrine explains that all psychological and physical phenomena constituting individual existence are interdependent and mutually condition each other; this at the same time describes what entangles sentient beings in samsara.
  14. The concept of Hell(s) in Buddhism is very different from that of other religions. It is not a place for eternal damnation as viewed by ‘almighty creator’ religions. In Buddhism, it is just one of the six realms in Samsara *. Also, there are virtually unlimited number of hells in the Buddhist cosmology as there are infinite number of Buddha worlds.
  15. The Buddhist cosmology (or universe) is distinctly different from that of other religions which usually recognise only this solar system (Earth) as the centre of the Universe and the only planet with living beings. The Buddhist viewpoint of a Buddha world (also known as Three Thousand-Fold World System) is that of one billion solar systems. Besides, the Mahayana Buddhist doctrines expound that there are other contemporary Buddha worlds like Amitabha’s Pure Land and Bhaisajyaguru’s world system.
  16. Samsara is a fundamental concept in Buddhism and it is simply the ‘perpetual cycles of existence’ or endless rounds of rebirth among the six realms of existence. This cyclical rebirth pattern will only end when a sentient being attains Nirvana, i.e. virtual exhaustion of karma, habitual traces, defilements and delusions. All other religions preach one heaven, one earth and one hell, but this perspective is very limited compared with Buddhist samsara where heaven is just one of the six realms of existence and it has 28 levels/planes.
============================================

Now, your turn my friend, prove to me that the Buddha is a manifestation of God.

The fact that Baha’i incorporated all these religions has made itself a bigger target to be refuted. And using the Buddha alone, Baha’i claims have been refuted by themselves.

Peace
JC*
 
  1. Rebirth is another key doctrine in Buddhism and it goes hand in hand with karma. There is a subtle difference between rebirth and reincarnation as expounded in Hinduism. Buddhism rejects the theory of a transmigrating permanent soul, whether created by a god or emanating from a divine essence.
  2. Maitri or Metta in Pali (Loving Kindness) and Karuna (Compassion) to all living beings including animals. Buddhism strictly forbids animal sacrifice for whatever reason. Vegetarianism is recommended but not compulsory.
  3. The importance of Non-attachment. Buddhism goes beyond doing good and being good. One must not be attached to good deeds or the idea of doing good; otherwise it is just another form of craving.
  4. In Buddhism, there is consideration for all sentient beings (versus human beings, as in other religions). Buddhists acknowledge/accept the existence of animals and beings in other realms in Samsara.
  5. No holy war concept in Buddhism. Killing is breaking a key moral precept in Buddhism. One is strictly forbidden to kill another person in the name of religion, a religious leader or whatsoever religious pretext or worldly excuse.
  6. Suffering is another cornerstone in Buddhism. It is the first of the Four Noble Truths. Sufferings are very well analysed and explained in Buddhism.
  7. The idea of sin or original sin has no place in Buddhism. Also, sin should not be equated to suffering.
  8. Buddhist teachings expound no beginning and no end to one’s existence or life. There is virtually no recognition of a first cause — e.g. how does human existence first come about?
  9. The Dharma provides a very detailed explanation of the doctrine of anatman {anatta in Pali} or soullessness , i.e. there is no soul entity (whether in one life of many lives).
  10. Prajna [Panna in Pali] or Transcendent Wisdom occupies a paramount position in Buddhist teachings. Sakyamuni Buddha expounded Prajna concepts for some 20 years of his ministry. One is taught to balance compassion with prajna i.e.emotion (faith) with rationale (right understanding / truth / logic).
  11. The tradition and practice of meditation in Buddhism are relatively important and strong. While all religions teach some forms or variations of stabilising/single-pointedness meditation, only Buddhism emphazises Vipassana (Insight) meditation as a powerful tool to assist one in seeking liberation/enlightenment.

  1. Samsara is a fundamental concept in Buddhism and it is simply the ‘perpetual cycles of existence’ or endless rounds of rebirth among the six realms of existence. This cyclical rebirth pattern will only end when a sentient being attains Nirvana, i.e. virtual exhaustion of karma, habitual traces, defilements and delusions. All other religions preach one heaven, one earth and one hell, but this perspective is very limited compared with Buddhist samsara where heaven is just one of the six realms of existence and it has 28 levels/planes.
============================================

Now, your turn my friend, prove to me that the Buddha is a manifestation of God.

The fact that Baha’i incorporated all these religions has made itself a bigger target to be refuted. And using the Buddha alone, Baha’i claims have been refuted by themselves.

Peace
JC
Dear friend, thankyou for this well thougt out post, and I honour you for the research you have placed into it to maintain it to be as accurate as possible.

Firstly, please bear in mind that the Bahai Faith does not “incorporate all these religions into one” to create a mish mash jumbled up messy religion.

The Bahai Faith is a religion independent and stand alone, the religion of God for this Age. Yes it acknowledges that Abraham, Moses, Buddha, Krsna, Zoroaster, Jesus, Muhammad were all Manifestations of God, but does not borrow from them any more than the concept of sin is borrowed by Jesus from Judaism. A Truth is a truth is a truth, and it will be reiterated if it is the truth.

The purpose of a Manifestation of God is clear. His Revelation provides the Elixir to men’s hearts to remedy the disease. The Manifestation of God is the supreme Divine Physician from one age to another.

It is my understanding that a Manifestation of God, when revealed in a specific population/ region will diagnose the spiritual disease, and provide the medicine needed to draw people closer to God "in preparation for the coming of the next Manifestation of God" (that part is critical!). 🙂

Buddha’s Revelation came in a climate when the original monotheistic teachings of Lord Krsna had deteriorated into a decadent polytheistic idol worship, and it was rife, and stench-filled spiritually.

God, through the Buddha, in His infinite wisdom revealed the INNER Divine which exists in all of us. He saw the sickness, diagnosed the spiritual disease and provided the remedy.

God lives in each and every human heart, and to find Him within our own selves was the focus of the Buddhas Revelation. He was a Manifestation of God but like the All-Knowing Physician demanded, He refrained from teaching about “yet another God” in a god-plenty society.

Hope that clarifies the position for you.

This situation is not too dissimilar to Muhammad’s Mission and the purpose of His Revelation but a slight difference was present in that period in the Arabian Peninsula. This time the attention was to REFOCUS on the one true God…

🙂

.
 
The Bahai Faith is a religion independent and stand alone, the religion of God for this Age. Yes it acknowledges that Abraham, Moses, Buddha, Krsna, Zoroaster, Jesus, Muhammad were all Manifestations of God, but does not borrow from them any more than the concept of sin is borrowed by Jesus from Judaism. A Truth is a truth is a truth, and it will be reiterated if it is the truth.
Jesus did not borrow sin from Judaism, Jesus is the prophesied Messiah in the Old Testament. To tell others that Jesus borrowing sin from Judaism, is to doubt the prophecies concerning Him and to doubt Him. He is the First Cause & the Last End of all things, how is he borrowing sin from Judaism? How can Baha’i argue that they do not doubt He is the ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD then, and then turn around saying He borrowed sin from Judaism? You are adding in Baha’i teachings to existing teachings, then refuting your own claims and validity.
A Truth is a truth is a truth, and it will be reiterated if it is the truth.
Having said all that, your understanding and claims of what is the truth is NOT the Truth.
It is my understanding that a Manifestation of God, when revealed in a specific population/ region will diagnose the spiritual disease, and provide the medicine needed to draw people closer to God “in preparation for the coming of the next Manifestation of God” (that part is critical!).
If that is so, why didn’t the prophets before the Buddha prophesy about him and why didn’t the Buddha prophesy about the Messiah or talk about God? When all other prophets keep talking about God, the Buddha never once confessed about Him. If the Buddha truly is from God or have anything to do with the works of God, by not glorifying God and making Him known, he has became EXACTLY like Moses. Read below:

In Exodus, God commands Moses to strike a rock, and promises to make water flow in the desert for the people. Later on, God tells Moses to speak to a rock, promising to make water flow in the desert again.

Exodus 17:6 ESV
Behold, I will stand before you there on the rock at Horeb, and you shall strike the rock, and water shall come out of it, and the people will drink.” And Moses did so, in the sight of the elders of Israel.


**Numbers 20:8-12 ESV
“Take the staff, and assemble the congregation, you and Aaron your brother, and tell the rock before their eyes to yield its water. So you shall bring water out of the rock for them and give drink to the congregation and their cattle.” 9 And Moses took the staff from before the Lord, as he commanded him. 10 Then Moses and Aaron gathered the assembly together before the rock, and he said to them, "Hear now, you rebels: shall we bring water for you out of this rock?” 11 And Moses lifted up his hand and struck the rock with his staff twice, and water came out abundantly, and the congregation drank, and their livestock. 12 And the Lord said to Moses and Aaron, “Because you did not believe in me, to uphold me as holy in the eyes of the people of Israel, therefore you shall not bring this assembly into the land that I have given them.” **

However, Moses strikes the rock again instead of speaking to it. Because of just this one thing, God tells Moses that he will no longer be permitted bring the people into the Promised Land. Why do you think that is? Because Moses did NOT glorify God, failed to trust God, rejected God and tried to take control.
Buddha’s Revelation came in a climate when the original monotheistic teachings of Lord Krsna had deteriorated into a decadent polytheistic idol worship, and it was rife, and stench-filled spiritually.

God, through the Buddha, in His infinite wisdom revealed the INNER Divine which exists in all of us. He saw the sickness, diagnosed the spiritual disease and provided the remedy.

God lives in each and every human heart, and to find Him within our own selves was the focus of the Buddhas Revelation. He was a Manifestation of God but like the All-Knowing Physician demanded, He refrained from teaching about “yet another God” in a god-plenty society.
Exodus 32:7-10
7 The Lord said to Moses, “Go down at once! Your people, whom you brought up out of the land of Egypt, have acted perversely; 8 they have been quick to turn aside from the way that I commanded them; they have cast for themselves an image of a calf, and have worshiped it and sacrificed to it, and said, ‘These are your gods, O Israel, who brought you up out of the land of Egypt!’” 9 The Lord said to Moses, “I have seen this people, how stiff-necked they are. 10 Now let me alone, so that my wrath may burn hot against them and I may consume them; and of you I will make a great nation.”


Now take note, why did God or the Buddha not turn the people of Hinduism away from idoltary if that is your claim, like He did with His people when He sent Moses down to them? Instead the Buddha taught an entirely different teaching. Has Baha’i’s understanding of the Eternal God Whose Words are Unchanging & Eternal been reduced to a Ever-changing & Inconsistent God? A God that is subjected to the conditions of one age to another age?

Matthew 24:35
35"Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away.

God is Eternal & Unchanging, Face It.
 
With the Buddha rejecting the claims of an existence of God and also denied he is a god, a messenger of any god or any form of a manifestation of God. There are some who take delight in making the Buddha a non-human. They quote a passage from the Anguttara Nikâya (II, 37), mistranslate it, and misunderstand it. The story goes thus:

Once the Buddha was seated under a tree in the meditation posture, his senses calmed, his mind quiet, and attained to supreme control and serenity. Then a Brahmin, Dona by name, approached the Buddha and asked:

"Sir, will you be a god, a deva?"
“No, brahmin.”
“Sir, will you be a heavenly angel, a gandhabba?”
“No, brahmin.”
“Sir, will you be a demon, a yakkha?”
“No, brahmin.”
“Sir, will you be a human being, a manussa?”
“No, brahmin.”
"Then, sir, what indeed will you be?"


Now understand the Buddha’s reply carefully:

"Brahmin, whatever defilements (âsavas) there be owing to the presence of which a person may be identified as a god or a heavenly angel or a demon or a human being, all these defilements in me are abandoned, cut off at the root, made like a palm-tree stump, done away with, and are no more subject to future arising.“Just as, brahmin, a blue or red or white lotus born in water, grows in water and stands up above the water untouched by it, so too I, who was born in the world and grew up in the world, have transcended the world, and I live untouched by the world. Remember me as one who is enlightened (Buddhoti mam dhârehi brâhmana).”

What the Buddha said was that he was not a god or a heavenly angel or a demon or a human being full of defilements. From the above it is clear that the Buddha wanted the brahmin to know that he was not a human being with defilements. He did not want the brahmin to put him into any of those categories. The Buddha was in the world but not of the world, loosened from all attachments of the world and to whatever terms of god, demon, etc. This derives from the teaching of emptiness. This is clear from the simile of the lotus. Hasty critics, however, rush to a wrong conclusion and want others to believe that the Buddha was not a human being.

In the Anguttara Nikâya (I, 22), there is a clear instance in which the Buddha categorically declared that he was a human being:


“Monks, there is one person (puggala) whose birth into this world is for the welfare and happiness of many, out of compassion for the world, for the gain and welfare and happiness of gods (devas) and humanity. Who is this one person (eka puggala)? It is the Tathâgata, who is a Consummate One (arahat), a Supremely Enlightened One (sammâ-sambuddho)…Monks, one person born into the world is an extraordinary man, a marvellous man (acchariya manussa).”

**Note the Påli word manussa, a human being. Yes, the Buddha was a human being but not just another man. He was a marvellous man. **

The Buddhist texts say that the Bodhisatta (as he is known before he became the Buddha) was in the Tusita heaven (devaloka) but came down to the human world to be born as a human being (manussatta). His parents, King Suddhodana and Queen Mahâmâyâ, were human beings. The Buddha being reborn as a man from the Tusita heaven does not constitute him as a divine being or a manifestation of God/gods or a messenger of God/gods, for he made no such claims. His teachings are that all conditioned beings are subjected to rebirths into a higher or lower realm(s).

The Bodhisatta was born as a man, attained enlightenment (Buddhahood) as a man, and finally passed away into parinibbâna as a man. Even after his Supreme Enlightenment he did not call himself a God or Brahmâ or any “supernatural being,” but an extraordinary man.

“The Buddha did not feel that he was announcing a new religion. He was born, grew up, and died a Hindu. He was restating with a new emphasis the ancient ideals of the Indo-Aryan civilization.”

But the Buddha himself declares that his teaching was a revelation of truths discovered by himself, not known to his contemporaries, not inherited from past tradition. Thus, in his very first sermon, referring to the Four Noble Truths, he says: “Monks, with the thought ‘This is the noble truth of suffering, this is its cause, this is its cessation, this is the way leading to its cessation,’ there arose in me vision, knowledge, wisdom, insight, and light concerning things unheard of before (pubbesu ananussutesu dhammesu).”

Buddhism has NEVER believed in a One God or Creator God.

The Buddha, like modern sociologists and psychologists, believed that religious ideas and especially the god idea have their origins in fear. The Buddha says:

Gripped by fear people go to sacred mountains, sacred groves, sacred trees and shrines.
Dp. 188
 
Primitive humans found selves in a dangerous and hostile world, the fear of wild animals, of not being able to find enough food, of injury or disease, and of natural phenomena like thunder, lightning and volcanoes were constantly with them. Finding no security, they created the idea of gods in order to give them comfort in good times, courage in times of danger and consolation when things went wrong. To this day, you will notice that people become more religious at times of crises, you will hear them say that the belief in a god or gods gives them the strength they need to deal with life. You will hear them explain that they believe in a particular god because they prayed in time of need and their prayer was answered. All this seems to support the Buddha’s teaching that the god-idea is a response to fear and frustration. The Buddha taught us to try to understand our fears, to lessen our desires and to calmly and courageously accept the things we cannot change. He replaced fear, not with irrational belief but with rational understanding.

The second reason the Buddha did not believe in a god is because there does not seem to be any evidence to support this idea. There are numerous religions, all claiming that they alone have god’s words preserved in their holy book, that they alone understand god’s nature, that their god exists and that the gods of other religions do not. Some claim that god is masculine, some that she is feminine and others that it is neuter. They are all satisfied that there is ample evidence to prove the existence of their god but they laugh in disbelief at the evidence other religions use to prove the existence of another god. It is not surprising that with so many different religions spending so many centuries trying to prove the existence of their gods that still no real, concrete, substantial or irrefutable evidence has been found. Buddhists suspend judgement until such evidence is forthcoming.

The third reason the Buddha did not believe in a god is that the belief is not necessary. Some claim that the belief in a god is necessary in order to explain the origin of the universe. But this is not so. Science has very convincingly explained how the universe came into being without having to introduce the god-idea. Some claim that belief in god is necessary to have a happy, meaningful life. Again we can see that this is not so. There are millions of atheists and free-thinkers, not to mention many Buddhists, who live useful, happy and meaningful lives without belief in a god. Some claim that belief in god’s power is necessary because humans, being weak, do not have the strength to help themselves. Once again, the evidence indicates the opposite. One often hears of people who have overcome great disabilities and handicaps, enormous odds and difficulties through their own inner resources, through their own efforts and without belief in a god. Some claim that god is necessary in order to give man salvation. But this argument only holds good if you accept the theological concept of salvation and Buddhists do not accept such a concept. Based on his own experience, the Buddha saw that each human being had the capacity to purify the mind, develop infinite love and compassion and perfect understanding. He shifted attention from the heavens to the heart and encouraged us to find solutions to our problems through self-understanding.

So the above are all the evidences that the Buddha is not divine, not a manifestation of God, not a messenger of God. And the Buddha does NOT know God or recognize God

I will appreciate it if you could instead provide evidences instead of relying your explanations. Read from post 495. Thank you.
 
Jesus did not borrow sin from Judaism, Jesus is the prophesied Messiah in the Old Testament. To tell others that Jesus borrowing sin from Judaism, is to doubt the prophecies concerning Him and to doubt Him. He is the First Cause & the Last End of all things, how is he borrowing sin from Judaism? How can Baha’i argue that they do not doubt He is the ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD then, and then turn around saying He borrowed sin from Judaism? You are adding in Baha’i teachings to existing teachings, then refuting your own claims and validity.

Having said all that, your understanding and claims of what is the truth is NOT the Truth.
Let me try to assist you here dear friend 🙂

I will clarify…

When you say that the Baha’i Faith is a collection of teachings from all the other religions and borrows from them I was simply stating that when another religion has stated a Truth, the Baha’i Writings confirms them as Truth. It does not borrow, it confirms, just like the existence of sin is a Truth, Jesus “confirmed” it as such 🙂

However, the Baha’i Faith “fulfills” these truths by going further and categorically stating what was not “explicitly” stated in previous Holy Books. Such as:
  • abolition of slavery (“implied” in other Holy Books maybe, but now STATED)
  • spiritual equality of men and women
…and these are only two principles…one can delve into many other things 🙂

Hope that is now clarified 🙂

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If that is so, why didn’t the prophets before the Buddha prophesy about him
Lord Krishna did 🙂

“When righteousness is weak and faints, and unrighteousness exults in pride, then my Spirit arises on earth. For the salvation of those who are good, for the destruction of evil in men, for the fulfillment of the kingdom of righteousness, I come to this world from Age to Age.”
Bhagavad Gita 4:17
and why didn’t the Buddha prophesy about the Messiah or talk about God?
We have already established that dear friend. Lets not go backwards. The purpose of Buddha was to eliminate polytheism and turn the hearts of men towards finding God within.
When all other prophets keep talking about God, the Buddha never once confessed about Him.
We cannot keep repeating the purpose of the religion of the Buddha 🙂

Might I suggest you consider studying this:
bahai-library.com/momen_encyclopedia_buddhism

🙂

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Krishna created who then?

MJ
Krishna is the creator of “ALL spiritual and material worlds”

*“Everything emanates from ME”

“The wise who perfectly know this engage in My devotional service and worship Me with all their hearts”

“Of all that is material and all that is spiritual in this world, know for certain that I am both the origin and the dissolution”*

All quotes from the Bhagavad Gita 🙂

I believe Krishna is God too.

Will the real God please stand up? Jesus or Krishna or Baha’u’llah

Do you see a pattern dear friend?

Either they are all lying, or two of them are lying or they are ALL correct.

Baha’u’llah shows us why they are ALL correct, and thereby INSTANTLY unifies the entire human race with just one breath of Revelation

🙂

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In Exodus, God commands Moses to strike a rock, and promises to make water flow in the desert for the people. Later on, God tells Moses to speak to a rock, promising to make water flow in the desert again.

Exodus 17:6 ESV
Behold, I will stand before you there on the rock at Horeb, and you shall strike the rock, and water shall come out of it, and the people will drink.” And Moses did so, in the sight of the elders of Israel.


**Numbers 20:8-12 ESV
“Take the staff, and assemble the congregation, you and Aaron your brother, and tell the rock before their eyes to yield its water. So you shall bring water out of the rock for them and give drink to the congregation and their cattle.” 9 And Moses took the staff from before the Lord, as he commanded him. 10 Then Moses and Aaron gathered the assembly together before the rock, and he said to them, "Hear now, you rebels: shall we bring water for you out of this rock?” **11 And Moses lifted up his hand and struck the rock with his staff twice, and water came out abundantly, and the congregation drank, and their livestock. 12 And the Lord said to Moses and Aaron, “Because you did not believe in me, to uphold me as holy in the eyes of the people of Israel, therefore you shall not bring this assembly into the land that I have given them.”

However, Moses strikes the rock again instead of speaking to it. Because of just this one thing, God tells Moses that he will no longer be permitted bring the people into the Promised Land. Why do you think that is? Because Moses did NOT glorify God, failed to trust God, rejected God and tried to take control.

Exodus 32:7-10
7 The Lord said to Moses, “Go down at once! Your people, whom you brought up out of the land of Egypt, have acted perversely; 8 they have been quick to turn aside from the way that I commanded them; they have cast for themselves an image of a calf, and have worshiped it and sacrificed to it, and said, ‘These are your gods, O Israel, who brought you up out of the land of Egypt!’” 9 The Lord said to Moses, “I have seen this people, how stiff-necked they are. 10 Now let me alone, so that my wrath may burn hot against them and I may consume them; and of you I will make a great nation.”


Now take note, why did God or the Buddha not turn the people of Hinduism away from idoltary if that is your claim, like He did with His people when He sent Moses down to them? Instead the Buddha taught an entirely different teaching. Has Baha’i’s understanding of the Eternal God Whose Words are Unchanging & Eternal been reduced to a Ever-changing & Inconsistent God? A God that is subjected to the conditions of one age to another age?

Matthew 24:35
35"Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away.

God is Eternal & Unchanging, Face It.
My friend, OF COURSE God is eternal and unchanging 🙂

However His teachings are alawys changing and being revealed gradually. This is reality. Everything learns and grows and evolves GRADUALLY 🙂

Why do you not follow the entirety of Torah Law?

Is God not eternal? Of course He is, but you do not follow the Law because God “changed” His teachings…

Its really very simple 🙂

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"Brahmin, whatever defilements (âsavas) there be owing to the presence of which a person may be identified as a god or a heavenly angel or a demon or a human being, all these defilements in me are abandoned, cut off at the root, made like a palm-tree stump, done away with, and are no more subject to future arising.“Just as, brahmin, a blue or red or white lotus born in water, grows in water and stands up above the water untouched by it, so too I, who was born in the world and grew up in the world, have transcended the world, and I live untouched by the world. Remember me as one who is enlightened (Buddhoti mam dhârehi brâhmana).”

What the Buddha said was that he was not a god or a heavenly angel or a demon or a human being full of defilements. From the above it is clear that the Buddha wanted the brahmin to know that he was not a human being with defilements. He did not want the brahmin to put him into any of those categories. The Buddha was in the world but not of the world, loosened from all attachments of the world and to whatever terms of god, demon, etc. This derives from the teaching of emptiness. This is clear from the simile of the lotus. Hasty critics, however, rush to a wrong conclusion and want others to believe that the Buddha was not a human being.
Dear friend, this is very clear what the Buddha is saying here.

I agree he is NOT saying that He is not a human being. He IS a human being.

But He is a human being “without defilements”

Do you know what defilements are? In Christianity, a defilement would be termed sin.

The Buddha is “without sin”

Now as a Christian, how many human beings do you know that are without sin? One, correct?

Jesus…and now you know that the Buddha claimed the same. 🙂

He is the perfect human being to be “in this world” but not “of this world”, hence the example of the lotus and the water.

Its really quite clear that the Buddha was a Manifestation of God with a very clear Mission designed by God to lift the veil of polytheism from the eyes of men, and it succeeded. Look at how much Buddhism has grown.

As with all religions some will follow and some will not.
“Some will be taken and some will be left behind”
This is the nature of our Judgement Day.

🙂

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Primitive humans found selves in a dangerous and hostile world, the fear of wild animals, of not being able to find enough food, of injury or disease, and of natural phenomena like thunder, lightning and volcanoes were constantly with them. Finding no security, they created the idea of gods in order to give them comfort in good times, courage in times of danger and consolation when things went wrong. To this day, you will notice that people become more religious at times of crises, you will hear them say that the belief in a god or gods gives them the strength they need to deal with life. You will hear them explain that they believe in a particular god because they prayed in time of need and their prayer was answered. All this seems to support the Buddha’s teaching that the god-idea is a response to fear and frustration. The Buddha taught us to try to understand our fears, to lessen our desires and to calmly and courageously accept the things we cannot change. He replaced fear, not with irrational belief but with rational understanding.

The second reason the Buddha did not believe in a god is because there does not seem to be any evidence to support this idea. There are numerous religions, all claiming that they alone have god’s words preserved in their holy book, that they alone understand god’s nature, that their god exists and that the gods of other religions do not. Some claim that god is masculine, some that she is feminine and others that it is neuter. They are all satisfied that there is ample evidence to prove the existence of their god but they laugh in disbelief at the evidence other religions use to prove the existence of another god. It is not surprising that with so many different religions spending so many centuries trying to prove the existence of their gods that still no real, concrete, substantial or irrefutable evidence has been found. Buddhists suspend judgement until such evidence is forthcoming.

The third reason the Buddha did not believe in a god is that the belief is not necessary. Some claim that the belief in a god is necessary in order to explain the origin of the universe. But this is not so. Science has very convincingly explained how the universe came into being without having to introduce the god-idea. Some claim that belief in god is necessary to have a happy, meaningful life. Again we can see that this is not so. There are millions of atheists and free-thinkers, not to mention many Buddhists, who live useful, happy and meaningful lives without belief in a god. Some claim that belief in god’s power is necessary because humans, being weak, do not have the strength to help themselves. Once again, the evidence indicates the opposite. One often hears of people who have overcome great disabilities and handicaps, enormous odds and difficulties through their own inner resources, through their own efforts and without belief in a god. Some claim that god is necessary in order to give man salvation. But this argument only holds good if you accept the theological concept of salvation and Buddhists do not accept such a concept. Based on his own experience, the Buddha saw that each human being had the capacity to purify the mind, develop infinite love and compassion and perfect understanding. He shifted attention from the heavens to the heart and encouraged us to find solutions to our problems through self-understanding.

So the above are all the evidences that the Buddha is not divine, not a manifestation of God, not a messenger of God. And the Buddha does NOT know God or recognize God

I will appreciate it if you could instead provide evidences instead of relying your explanations. Read from post 495. Thank you.
Dear friend, my evidences is by reading the texts you provide comprehensively, and with precision and clarity providing the meaning in English. There is little to nothing hidden other than the obvious meanings.

We human beings have in this wonderful Age been given the gift of literacy, education, and intellect. We no longer require religious hierarchy to “tell” us what something means. God has endowed you with a wonderful gift. We should use it to it full capacity.

Having said that, you would really benefit from reading this.

I am confident that with a full understanding you will conclude that all major global religions are correct and true for the age in which they were intended 🙂

info.bahai.org/article-1-4-0-3.html

Please share your thoughts and questions with us dear friend 🙂

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Dear friend, this is very clear what the Buddha is saying here.

I agree he is NOT saying that He is not a human being. He IS a human being.

But He is a human being “without defilements”

Do you know what defilements are? In Christianity, a defilement would be termed sin.

The Buddha is “without sin”
Another misconception. You do not understand the teachings of the Buddha which constitutes to the Pali canon. Ask ANY monk I put this challenge to you and you will be corrected immediately. Go to a 6 month retreat with a Buddhist group.

Do you know what defilements are as it is in Buddhism? Or are you giving me an explanation of Buddhism looking in from the outside? So the monks were all wrong since the very beginning when the Buddha taught? And Baha’i claims their own interpretation is right?

Before looking at what makes one defiled, it is essential that we understand what it means to be defiled AS the Buddha taught. It is easy to understand defilement as sinful outside Buddhism, so that when we read one is defiled we believe it means he is sinful or morally defective. This, however, is not necessarily the case. Certainly sin defiles. However, we all come in contact with the defilements in our lives through no fault of our own.

One of it is as what the Buddha taught: Non-Attachment.

When the Buddha said that he was undefiled and untouched by this world, he was simply saying he has broken the bonds of attachments and that all attachments have no more hold on him. Which means he has NO desire, NO cravings and NO attachments It does not mean he was born sinless.

My dear friend, I will advise you to also study Buddhism in-depth and the teachings of emptiness honestly & sincerely, if you so wish to argue about Baha’i perspective since the Buddha is also considered among your “manifestations of God” and “messenger of God”.

If as you said, one should fast & pray and explore to find out the truth, you will listen to my advise and attend RCIA and learn Buddhism to study more about your Baha’i faith. Won’t it be great if you could be more rounded in your knowledge of your Bahai’ faith?
 
Krishna is the creator of “ALL spiritual and material worlds”

*“Everything emanates from ME”

“The wise who perfectly know this engage in My devotional service and worship Me with all their hearts”

“Of all that is material and all that is spiritual in this world, know for certain that I am both the origin and the dissolution”*

All quotes from the Bhagavad Gita 🙂

I believe Krishna is God too.

Will the real God please stand up? Jesus or Krishna or Baha’u’llah

Do you see a pattern dear friend?

Either they are all lying, or two of them are lying or they are ALL correct.

Baha’u’llah shows us why they are ALL correct, and thereby INSTANTLY unifies the entire human race with just one breath of Revelation

🙂

.
The only pattern here is multiple Gods. 😦 Good luck. I’m praying for you.

MJ
 
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