One correct religion with the Truth (part 2)?

[Servant19]

While the story of Jonah may be an amazing tale of a disobedient prophet being swallowed by a great big fish to many. But yet it may not be a tale after all since we cannot doubt that God in His infinite mercy and power, can preserve a man’s life as He wish, unless one is to doubt Him.

Most importantly, the Lord Jesus Christ accepted the account as true. He said that the people of Nineveh repented of their sins as a consequence of his preaching (Matthew 12:41). He even said:

“For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly, so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth” (Matthew 12:40).

Thus Christ actually compared Jonah’s experience to His own coming death and resurrection, pointing out the miraculous nature of both. One cannot deny the factuality of Jonah’s experience, therefore, without charging the Lord Jesus Christ with either deception or ignorance, either of which is equivalent to denying His deity.​

Even if it is a tale, it is entirely unrelated to the teachings of the Buddha of that subject we spoke about BECAUSE Dipankara Buddha appeared to Sakyamuni Buddha, and some of his disciples and followers, which in turned demonstrated that the Buddha was not expounding a tale/literature, if one so choose to believe in Buddhism.

At that time, there was a monk by the name of Ananda (the closest companion of the Buddha) who was famous for his prodigious memory. Ananda recited all of the Buddha’s sermons from memory, a feat that surely took several days. Ananda began all of his recitations with the words “Thus I have heard,” and so all Buddhist sutras begin with those words. The Council agreed that Ananda’s recitation was accurate, and the collection of sutras Ananda recited was adopted by the Council.

Anything else that is literature do not fall in the Buddhavacana category among all the volumes of the Pali Canon. Thus your attempt to suggest the Buddha teaching of “Buddhas” is a tale or literature like Jonah being swallowed by the whale…is again, not valid.

Anyways, I have no wish to further waste my time on this thread which is proving fruitless, since you cannot accept anything, even if I am to Fedex the entire Pali Canon to you which Baha’i taught as one of the truths but yet contradicts their own teachings.

Most frustrating is Baha’is ability to ignore any proof you provide and continue a line of thinking even when clear evidence is given that it can’t be true, even to the point of starting a conversation over and completely ignoring what even they have said themselves.

This conversation is as stagnant as we were many posts back. Having said all that, I am outta here for good. And you cannot say that you have not been offered charity and patience because I have bore with you long enough, my friend. You wanted reliable sources to which I took the time to dig out for you at the expense of my own time but you simply don’t get it.

Enjoy the sandcastle buddy

You know dear friend, in this wonderful Age we are able to uncover and unearth marvellous evidences of prehistoric animals, prehistoric man and even know through peer-reviewed research with remarkable accuracy the age of these artefacts.

So now that we are talking about sandcastles, can you please provide one piece of peer-reviewed evidence to show that a 100,000 year old lion ever existed?

Since pretty much ALL the Buddhas you refer to were all over 10,000 years old can you provide any evidence (especially since every dinosaur since the dawn of time has been unearthed, surely these men/lions might also have been unearthed) from the archeological community that they existed please?

Might I also ask why did Buddhas stop living for so long all of a sudden? Can you show me evidence of one Buddha who is still alive that is aged over 300 please?
(I’m making it easy for you here I’m not asking for evidence of something/entity that is alive today who is aged over 1000 years old)

Thankyou dear friend

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[SteveVH]

Right. So if anyone uses the excuse that because there are 20,000 “denominations” or 30,000 whatever…is NOT an excuse to deny Jesus as THE Prophet, Savior and KING and decide to look for one Faith that accepts the other large religions leaders that they are from God. Only Jesus is God and from God and through Jesus and no other name in Heaven or Earth is the fullness of Truth.

Nobody or thing even before our Lord (Divine and Human) or after, walked the earth can claim this title.

Jesus IS the Alpha and Omega.

The Catholic Church does accept some of the truths from other faiths, but no further than that. It will only champion Jesus Christ.

Amen!

MJ

I agree with everything you said, however I would make it clear that the Catholic Church accepts all truth, not just “some” truth found in other faiths. If it is true, it is Catholic and we embrace it. At the same time we reject all that is not true in other religions.

 

[JamesCarr]

You know dear friend, in this wonderful Age we are able to uncover and unearth marvellous evidences of prehistoric animals, prehistoric man and even know through peer-reviewed research with remarkable accuracy the age of these artefacts.

So now that we are talking about sandcastles, can you please provide one piece of peer-reviewed evidence to show that a 100,000 year old lion ever existed?

Since pretty much ALL the Buddhas you refer to were all over 10,000 years old can you provide any evidence (especially since every dinosaur since the dawn of time has been unearthed, surely these men/lions might also have been unearthed) from the archeological community that they existed please?

Might I also ask why did Buddhas stop living for so long all of a sudden? Can you show me evidence of one Buddha who is still alive that is aged over 300 please?
(I’m making it easy for you here I’m not asking for evidence of something/entity that is alive today who is aged over 1000 years old)

Thankyou dear friend

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In order to understand the entire Buddhist teachings taught by the Buddha, you really need to go very in-depth to study its texts that constitutes the Pali Canon. If you want to know what is Baha’i, you need to study the religions that Baha’i claim as true. And that means going right into every single one of the religion that Baha’i made its claims of “true”. If one piece falls apart from the structure, obviously something is wrong in its teachings.

When the Buddha was about to pass away, he said, “I am not the first Buddha to come upon earth, nor shall I be the last. Previously there were many Buddhas who appeared in this world.”

There are altogether 7 Buddhas that attained enlightenment on this earth:

1. Vipasyin
2. Sikhin
3. Visabhu
4. Krakucchanda
5. Kanakamuni
6. Kasyapa
7. Shakyamuni

A list of Buddhas expounded by the Buddha was also given to you in earlier posts, many of which lived in previous universes and galaxies. In the Buddhist tradition, Shakyamuni Buddha was the fourth of the present Kalpa, which is called Bhadra-Kalpa. The last Kalpa was Adornment Kalpa and the next Kalpa is to be Constellation Kalpa.

The concept of Kalpa is the period of time expressed in Indian philosophy. Generally speaking, a Kalpa is the period of time between the creation and recreation of a world or universe. One Mahakalpa (Great Kalpa) is subdivided into four Asankhyeya-Kalpas (or simply called Kalpas):

Kalpa of formation (Vivarta)
Kalpa of existence (Vivatasiddha)
Kalpa of destruction (Samvarta)
Kalpa of emptiness (Samvartasiddha)

That’s how new worlds end and new worlds are born, as explained by the Buddha. Even our cells within our body are considered worlds but using a different time-span.

Each of the four Kalpas is subdivided into twenty Antarakalpa (Small Kalpa), so that a Mahakalpa consists of 80 Antarakalpa. Each Small Kalpa is divided into a period of increasing and decreasing. In the increasing period, the length of human life increases by one year every century to 84,000 years and the length of the human body to 8,400 ft. Then it comes to the decreasing period, during which the length of human life decreases gradually to the ten years and the human body to 1 foot in height. There are other distinctions of the Kalpas. A Small Kalpa is represented as 16,800,000 years, a Kalpa as 336,000,000 years and a Mahakalpha as 1,334,000,000 years.

Do you now see how some of the Buddhas are non-humanoid and why some lived for 100,000 years? They do not belong to this Kalpa but in the one that is long gone and destroyed before the arising of our Kalpa. Some don’t even belong to the previous World-Cycle at all.

As told by Shakyamuni, the next Buddha who will come upon Earth is Maitreya, who is to be the fifth Buddha in Bhadra Kalpa in our world. He will be born on Earth full 4,000 years after the Nirvana of Shakyamuni Buddha (around 2,500 years ago) for the deliverance of all sentient beings.

As for Baha’u’llah being Maitreya as you claimed, he is not even scheduled yet to start swimming in some male’s balls, my friend. No offense.

Seriously Servant19, you don’t even know the “truths” Baha’i accepts. You merely follow the crowd in Baha’i and use only those couple strong suits you people have: Christianity and Hinduism. But those other faiths Baha’i declared as true, you all avoid or are just not learned in it.

Has it fallen down to my shoulders to teach you your teachings?

 

[Servant19]

In order to understand the entire Buddhist teachings taught by the Buddha, you really need to go very in-depth to study its texts that constitutes the Pali Canon. If you want to know what is Baha’i, you need to study the religions that Baha’i claim as true…

This dear friend is the concern…

The Bahai Faith does not claim the religions, per se, as true. No, all the religions up to the time of Baha’u’llah have “elements” of Truth within them. The older the religion, the more man-made elements have crept in.

There are several scholarly papers written which deny a lot of the sayings of Pali to the original teachings of the Buddha.

Baha’is claim the ONLY absolutely authentic source to Gods Word is found in the Writings of the Bab and Baha’u’llah

So your assumptions are incorrect in this pathway you are taking

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[SteveVH]

This dear friend is the concern…

The Bahai Faith does not claim the religions, per se, as true. No, all the religions up to the time of Baha’u’llah have “elements” of Truth within them. The older the religion, the more man-made elements have crept in.

Ergo, the Church that Christ founded 2000 years ago, the Church which he promised never to leave, the Church of which he is the Head, the Church of which the Holy Spirit is the Soul, logically is the most “man-made”.

I’m sorry, Servant, but that is the most ridiculous, self-serving statement I’ve heard in a long time. The Baha’i faith is barely a blip on the radar screen of history, and you would have us believe that therefore it must have less “man-made” elements than the ancient Christian Church. Your statement only holds true for those religions created by man in the first place. Ours was created by the Son of God himself. Our founder was raised from the dead and sits at the right hand of the Father. Your founder is in a grave. That is the objective truth of the matter.

 

[Servant19]

Ergo, the Church that Christ founded 2000 years ago, the Church which he promised never to leave, the Church of which he is the Head, the Church of which the Holy Spirit is the Soul, logically is the most “man-made”.

I’m sorry, Servant, but that is the most ridiculous, self-serving statement I’ve heard in a long time. The Baha’i faith is barely a blip on the radar screen of history, and you would have us believe that therefore it must have less “man-made” elements than the ancient Christian Church. Your statement only holds true for those religions created by man in the first place. Ours was created by the Son of God himself. Our founder was raised from the dead and sits at the right hand of the Father. Your founder is in a grave. That is the objective truth of the matter.

Yes dear friend, the Father manifested Himself on earth, revealed what the people could not bear at the time His Son manifested Himself, then returned back to His place sitting just to the left of His Son.

The blip of the Bahai Faith is as “blippy” as Christianity was 150 years after Jesus, but the blip is gradually developing into a blob

And the blob will grow until “there is no more sea”

And no I do not think Christianity is the most man-made. As I said I genuinely do love Catholicism …



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[JamesCarr]

The Bahai Faith does not claim the religions, per se, as true. No, all the religions up to the time of Baha’u’llah have “elements” of Truth within them.

To say the bearer or teacher of every religion containing half-truths, and yet called the manifestation of god…you have just placed Baha’u’llah (who is also claimed by all Baha’i as another manifestation of god) on the same level as them!

Baha’is claim the ONLY absolutely authentic source to Gods Word is found in the Writings of the Bab and Baha’u’llah

If Baha’u’llah is placed on the same playing field as another manifestation of god equal to the very same buddha who taught half-truths as you said, how is it that the ONLY absolutely authentic source to Gods Word is found in the Writings of the Bab and Baha’u’llah? You cannot claim a person to be a manifestation of God if he only teaches half-truths, no? That be equal to a lie.

There are several scholarly papers written which deny a lot of the sayings of Pali to the original teachings of the Buddha.

Same way as it is with Baha’i, my friend. Name me one religion that does not receive criticisms & skepticisms.

The Bahai Faith does not claim the religions, per se, as true. No, all the religions up to the time of Baha’u’llah have “elements” of Truth within them. The older the religion, the more man-made elements have crept in.

So Baha’i is also subjected to impermanence and decay.

Matthew 24:35
35"Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away." - Note this. Jesus did not say its Baha’u’llah words.

Matthew 16:18
18"I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it." - I am sure you seen these all too many times. What Jesus saying is His Words are eternal and not subjected to decay, change or shifting of the times. So is His Church and Her Doctrines, which will never decay, change or shifting of the times

 

[MartinJordan]

I agree with everything you said, however I would make it clear that the Catholic Church accepts all truth, not just “some” truth found in other faiths. If it is true, it is Catholic and we embrace it. At the same time we reject all that is not true in other religions.

Sure. All truth that’s better.

MJ

 

[SteveVH]

Yes dear friend, the Father manifested Himself on earth, revealed what the people could not bear at the time His Son manifested Himself, then returned back to His place sitting just to the left of His Son.

And what is it that he revealed that the people of Jesus’ time could not bear? I guess that is the question for which we have been waiting an answer since you first came to this forum.

The blip of the Bahai Faith is as “blippy” as Christianity was 150 years after Jesus, but the blip is gradually developing into a blob

Servant, 150 years after Jesus, Christianity had spread to the known world. 150 years after Baha’u’llah most people have never heard his name nor know anything about the religion he created. “Gradual” would certainly be the operative word, but quite the understatement.

And no I do not think Christianity is the most man-made. As I said I genuinely do love Catholicism …

Are you then revoking your statement that the older the religion the more man-made it becomes?

 

[JamesCarr]

And what is it that he revealed that the people of Jesus’ time could not bear? I guess that is the question for which we have been waiting an answer since you first came to this forum.

Servant, 150 years after Jesus, Christianity had spread to the known world. 150 years after Baha’u’llah most people have never heard his name nor know anything about the religion he created. “Gradual” would certainly be the operative word, but quite the understatement.

Are you then revoking your statement that the older the religion the more man-made it becomes?

Somebody give me a Like button please.

 

[Servant19]

To say the bearer or teacher of every religion containing half-truths, and yet called the manifestation of god…you have just placed Baha’u’llah (who is also claimed by all Baha’i as another manifestation of god) on the same level as them!

Dear friend, have you considered the perspective that what the Founder of a religion teaches and what that religion becomes a thousand years later are not one and the same thing?

Even within Christianity, there was confusion in regards to circumcision and breaking bread with non-Jews pretty much a decade after Jesus and you are trying to tell me that the religion of the Buddha remains 100% authentic 2000+ years later.

I think that is unreasonable thinking…but you can think what you like, I, however have played many games to demonstrate this concept

If Baha’u’llah is placed on the same playing field as another manifestation of god equal to the very same buddha who taught half-truths as you said, how is it that the ONLY absolutely authentic source to Gods Word is found in the Writings of the Bab and Baha’u’llah? You cannot claim a person to be a manifestation of God if he only teaches half-truths, no? That be equal to a lie.

All Manifestations of God teach the Truth for that Age. They are Divine Educators and they will never expose the souls of men to things which is beyond their capacity to understand. So Truth is CATERED to the ability of the people at that time to understand. Absolute Truth does not exist in the realm of man…

Same way as it is with Baha’i, my friend. Name me one religion that does not receive criticisms & skepticisms.

Please show me one peer-reviewed scholarly paper that denies the recorded Writings of Bahaullah are not His own Revelation.

So Baha’i is also subjected to impermanence and decay.

Of course, in 1000 years or so another Manifestation of God will arise and will correct the man-made errors that Baha’is have introduced PLUS fulfil the teachings of Baha’u’llah and advance civilisation towards another level in God’s Divine Plan

Matthew 24:35
35"Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away." - Note this. Jesus did not say its Baha’u’llah words.

No, it’s the Word of God. Moses never said that someone will come and call His Law the Law of death. God doeth as He willeth…

Matthew 16:18
18"I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it." - I am sure you seen these all too many times. What Jesus saying is His Words are eternal and not subjected to decay, change or shifting of the times. So is His Church and Her Doctrines, which will never decay, change or shifting of the times

Where therefore did Jesus say that He is God, God from God, etc etc. Is the Niceness Creed an EXACT quotation from the lips of Jesus?

They are not Jesus’s Words dear friend, they are the words of man from their interpretations. God can correct those words when and if He deems fit and necessary

God bless you

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[Servant19]

And what is it that he revealed that the people of Jesus’ time could not bear? I guess that is the question for which we have been waiting an answer since you first came to this forum.

Servant, 150 years after Jesus, Christianity had spread to the known world. 150 years after Baha’u’llah most people have never heard his name nor know anything about the religion he created. “Gradual” would certainly be the operative word, but quite the understatement.

Are you then revoking your statement that the older the religion the more man-made it becomes?

Steve, I can elaborate further if you wish but the things that they could not bear at the time was the systematic organisation of the individual, the community and the institutions serving them towards a united purpose of ever- advancement.

In regards to my love of Catholicism, it’s because the Holy Spirit endowed the religion with Truths that enabled strong and correct relationship with God throughout it’s Dispensation.

Baha’u’llah’s Revelation fulfils and explores further the details of which Christianity has striven to define for centuries…



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[eddie_too]

I have not been given even one good reason to believe that Bahaullah or the bab were sent to mankind by its Creator.

I know of many reasons for NOT believing Bahaullah or the bab were sent to mankind by almighty God.

 

[Servant19]

I have not been given even one good reason to believe that Bahaullah or the bab were sent to mankind by its Creator.

I know of many reasons for NOT believing Bahaullah or the bab were sent to mankind by almighty God.

Here’s one good reason eddie

1. The abolition of slavery.

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[eddie_too]

those who demand God provide them with convincing physical proof of His Incarnation and our Salvation are not going to be satisfied in this world. actually demanding things of God is never a successful strategy.

faith in Jesus precedes knowledge of the Divine Mysteries. knowledge supports faith in Christ but can neither cause it or replace it.

faith in Christ is a gift. those who do not have faith would be best off humbly praying for it. those of us who have been given the gift of faith in Christ are obligated to pray that the rest of mankind also be given this saving gift.

while acknowledging that faith is a gift, we can weigh the evidence that supports and undermines various spiritual claims.

for example, we might have two groups who assert categorically opposite claims.

one group might claim that the stories handed down to the present age are erroneous and do not report what actually occurred. they might support their assertion by saying that the claims are scientifically impossible; or, that the claims were imaginary and grew out of some psychological need or sickness.

the other group in response might point out that the stories they believe in have been testified to for over 1,950 years. they might point out that the stories have not changed. they might point out that the stories are eyewitness accounts. they might point out that a system was set up to ensure the accuracy of the stories. they might point out that their God is not bound by the scientific laws of this world. they might agree that the spiritual needs of mankind can be mistaken as psychological needs and even in some cases psychological illnesses.

we, observing these two groups, can weigh their opposing claims and make a judgment about which claims are most reasonable to support. however, this process of evaluation is not designed to produce faith because faith cannot be produced. faith can only be accepted when offered. reason can support faith. reason can be an instrument for making our faith deeper and stronger, but reason is never the source of faith.

 

[Servant19]

those who demand God provide them with convincing physical proof of His Incarnation and our Salvation are not going to be satisfied in this world. actually demanding things of God is never a successful strategy.

I agree dear brother

Why therefore are you asking for one good reason to believe that the Bab and Baha’u’llah were sent by the Creator. Are you demanding physical proof?

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[eddie_too]

slavery has not been abolished. it still exists in Africa and the middle east. sex slaves exist throughout the world, especially in the advanced societies of the world.

as for the abolition of slavery as a legal institution, at least in most of the European derived cultures, that came from the efforts and faith of christians.

so, Bahaullah did not abolish slavery. Bahaullah was not instrumental in rendering slavery illegal in the countries that now consider it illegal.

not a good reason for embracing Bahaullah or bah so far as I can determine.

 

[eddie_too]

servant19,

my post related to faith and proof was a response to your demanding from another person proof of what actually occurred in the life of the old testament prophet Jonah. that is what motivated my post.

if you read further, you would have noticed that I addressed the relationship between faith and reason. I also acknowledge that it was legitimate to evaluate claims based on reason, of which physical evidence may be an element. however, faith is not a product of reason or evidence or proof. faith is now and always will be a gift.

when I refer to faith I mean faith in Jesus Christ as our Incarnated Lord, Savior and Redeemer, unless I qualify it within my post.

for every human being believes in something, but every human being does not believe in the Incarnation.

 

[Servant19]

Dear brother eddie,

When Moses revealed the words “Thou shalt not kill” it didn’t end all murders in the world…

When Jesus revealed His commandment “Love thine enemies”, it didn’t change the world into a rose garden of love…

So why demand the end of slavery?

The Revelation is the seed, the fruits of the tree of that seed manifest gradually, and it will. All slavery in the world will end in good time through the grace showered upon mankind by Baha’u’llah in this Wondrous Age

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[Servant19]

servant19,

my post related to faith and proof was a response to your demanding from another person proof of what actually occurred in the life of the old testament prophet Jonah. that is what motivated my post.

if you read further, you would have noticed that I addressed the relationship between faith and reason. I also acknowledge that it was legitimate to evaluate claims based on reason, of which physical evidence may be an element. however, faith is not a product of reason or evidence or proof. faith is now and always will be a gift.

when I refer to faith I mean faith in Jesus Christ as our Incarnated Lord, Savior and Redeemer, unless I qualify it within my post.

for every human being believes in something, but every human being does not believe in the Incarnation.

I agree dear brother

So where do you think my Faith in Baha’u’llah comes from?

To come here and share the love of Baha’u’llah takes tremendous courage and Faith. Where did this Faith come from?

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