One Mad Mom’s Voting Guide for Confused Catholics

[JulianN]

Every human decision is a matter for the individual conscience. That does not change the fact that there are intrinsic evils and that abortion is one of them

Agreed. And since abortions decline under Democrats, that will be the choice I’m making.

 

[pnewton]

The Democrats are the ones destroying the republic,

They are? You do know Donald Trump is a Republican and the actual president, don’t you? He is our leader now.

 

[upant]

They are? You do know Donald Trump is a Republican and the actual president, don’t you? He is our leader now.

Have you looked at the damage done by Democratic politicians in the cities? They refuse to protect lives and property in their new laws and actions. They are encouraging the destruction of the state. They are responsible for their cities burning not Trump

In California theft has been reduced to a fine, no wonder gun ownership is exploding

 

[pnewton]

Have you looked at the damage done by Democratic politicians in the cities?

I see what you are getting at. You confused me at first because you said “the Republic.”

 

[JulianN]

Have you looked at the damage done by Democratic politicians in the cities? They refuse to protect lives and property in their new laws and actions.

And you should definitely take that into consideration if you are a citizen of one of those cities and voting for mayor. Although it would also help if the president of the country didn’t tell white supremacists to “stand by.” Or perhaps didn’t suggest that his followers should “liberate” states from their own governments, especially when those followers were gathered at the state capitol and were heavily armed.

 

[JulianN]

Yep, it’s a funny old world, isn’t it? But there are certainly other moments in history where people have lined up behind those who would oppress them.

 

[JulianN]

Ok, only some of their members have been part of white supremacy groups. They are just plain old everyday neo-fascists. Either way, encouraging armed fringe groups to “liberate” a state from its elected government, and calling on the Proud Boys to ‘stand by’ is not behavior for which I’m willing to vote.

My only point here is that the Church allows you to vote your conscience, and me to vote mine.
The original post link was simply not in line with Church teaching.

 

[JimG]

It looks to me as though One Mad Mom did quite a bit of research for her latest posting.

 

[OneMadMom]

What’s your evidence of Trump trying to destroy the public? Hyperbolic statements are fun but they don’t actually contain proof. I made a case FOR voting for Trump based on the very erronious thought (as pointed out by the Church and the USCCB) that all issues carry equal weight. Even if you go ahead and use that faulty logic, you should still be voting for Trump over Biden.

 

[RolandThompsonGunner]

I called Cardinal McCarrick and idot too and, guess what? I was right. Rather than just ignore all the arguments made, why don’t you address them? Degrees don’t make one not an idiot. In fact, sometimes it furthers that problem.

I love that you got bothered enough to register an account.

 

[OneMadMom]

I didn’t say that Catholics couldn’t vote for Biden. We all have free will last time I checked. What I said was that it couldn’t be done in “good conscience.” You actually need to well-form your conscience for that one. People twist themselves into pretzels to justify voting for Joe. So you either think we have to hold all 47 principles in the voter guide (also not from any bishops) at equal weight or you believe in preeminent issues as the Church teaches. Either way, as I’ve given abundant examples, Trump should get the vote over Biden. Of course, that’s also assuming people are sincere in their support for the “seamless garment.” Clearly, not everyone is.

 

[OneMadMom]

It’s kind of hard to convince anyone of that when peace is breaking out all over the world.

 

[OneMadMom]

Your voting for Biden on fuzzy numbers? First of all, reporting is actually horrific. You do realize many states do not have to report abortions, right? And then this sums up quite a bit of the rest of the fuzzy math. Thankfully we have state rights which have been trumping the executive branches on abortion.

" CNN has developed a poor reputation for accuracy, especially in the past few years.

Recently one of its contributors, political analyst Kirsten Powers, made a misleading claim about abortions declining under Democratic leadership.

Powers made the comments while discussing the controversial Alabama Senate race with journalist Jake Tapper and Trump campaign strategist David Urban.

“Can we talk about this thing that Republicans do with abortion?” Powers said. “The abortion rate is the lowest rate it has been in 20 years. That’s because of Democrats being in power. This is what happens — every time Democrats are in power, the abortion rate drops.

“They actually provide women with what they need to either avoid the pregnancy or the support they need to actually have the baby, you know, whether it’s health insurance or these kinds of things,” she continued.

Tapper brought up “birth control access” to add to Powers’ claims.

But these claims are misleading, according to the Daily Caller:

While it is true that abortion rates [fell sharply] under the Obama administration, multiple studies discount that drops in overall rates are party affiliated. Abortion rates have been dropping [consistently since] Ronald Reagan, no matter the president in office. According to a [thorough report]by left-leaning Snopes, the claim that abortion rates only fall under Democrats is flatly “false.”

Snopes says “abortion rates have risen and fallen throughout presidencies of both parties, making drawing a direct correlation between the two untenable.” In fact, one of the sharpest increases in abortion rates in American history was [during] the Carter administration.

Another factor that contributed to the drop was a historic number of pro-life laws that passed state legislatures during the Obama administration. Even the Guttmacher Institute, the former research arm of Planned Parenthood, [admitted that these pro-life laws have been contributing to the drop].

Democratic Party leaders do not seem to have any desire to reduce abortions, either.

Ilyse Hogue, president of the radical pro-abortion group NARAL, made it clear that the Democratic Party is not the party of “safe, legal and rare” abortions anymore.

She said the 2016 Democratic Party platform [“didn’t just seek to protect abortion access — it sought to expand it.”] Hogue was considered for [the position of DNC chair in 2016].

The Democratic National Committee has adopted increasingly radical pro-abortion stances on abortion in the past few years. In 2016, [the DNC called for taxpayer funded abortions], a move opposed by a strong majority of Americans and one that almost assuredly would increase abortions."

 

[RolandThompsonGunner]

Here’s a thought: the election is tomorrow. We don’t need another indignant five thousand word manifesto on why people shouldn’t vote for Biden. No one is undecided at this point.

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

 

[Ender]

It’s kind of hard to convince anyone of that when peace is breaking out all over the world.

Well, I did say that position (Trump threatens the country) was an irrational one to believe. Clearly it is not impossible.

 

[pnewton]

But these claims are misleading, according to the Daily Caller:

While it is true that abortion rates [fell sharply] under the Obama administration, multiple studies discount that drops in overall rates are party affiliated. Abortion rates have been dropping [consistently since] Ronald Reagan, no matter the president in office. According to a [thorough report]by left-leaning Snopes, the claim that abortion rates only fall under Democrats is flatly “false.”

I think this is evidence for more than you intend. I indicates that the incidence of abortion is not dependent on who sits in the Oval Office.

But bashing CNN, while relying on websites with an admittedly political bias is part of the reason that not all agree. A lot of us have learned to read news in parallel to filter out most of the bias. Whereas one who relies heavily on websites that advertise their conservatism will get different information. The world will be filtered to reflect that bias.

This is a log, a beam in one’s own eye that must first be removed before attempt speck removal in another.

The Church tells us the conscience of the voter is to be followed, not the conscience of some web blogger. Catholics are betters off sticking to the USCCB.

 

[JulianN]

I didn’t say that Catholics couldn’t vote for Biden. We all have free will last time I checked. What I said was that it couldn’t be done in “good conscience.”

Believe me, it can.

 

[JulianN]

Your voting for Biden on fuzzy numbers? First of all, reporting is actually horrific. You do realize many states do not have to report abortions, right? And then this sums up quite a bit of the rest of the fuzzy math.

No – I’m not voting for him for that reason. I’m voting for him because he is the best chance to defeat the nightmare who currently occupies the White House. But I was pointing out that abortion rates have dropped more sharply under Democrats than Republicans, while they have been declining steadily overall.

 

[Ender]

I think this is evidence for more than you intend. It indicates that the incidence of abortion is not dependent on who sits in the Oval Office.

I think it indicates there are multiple factors, only one of which is the president. The reason ought to be fairly apparent given the impossibility of passing any national legislation restricting abortion. So long as the Democrats hold 40 Senate seats, even if the Republicans have the presidency, the House and the Senate, such legislation will never pass.

This should not suggest, however, that it is irrelevant to this issue who is president. With all the talk about the importance of changing hearts and minds it seems to escape people’s notice that having a pro-life president who publicly speaks to the issue is important in itself.

The Church tells us the conscience of the voter is to be followed…

This implies we are free to do whatever we want if our conscience is clear, which is not exactly so. Following our conscience is not a get-out-of-jail-free card.

 

[stpurl]

Mistakenly believing it’s good conscience? That is a possibility.

To truly do so knowing what good conscience means, and knowing the Church’s authentic teaching regarding the issue of the preeminence of abortion and the true nature of the Democratic Party planks and the Republican Party planks. . .not so much.

Either it is wrong to vote for Mr. Biden, with the reasons being that of both what the Church teaches with regard to conscience and what the Democratic Party (and the Republican Party teach). . .or it is correct to do so based on the same.

So to vote for Mr. Biden would mean that according to the Church’s teaching regarding allowing a person to vote for a ‘lesser evil’, then Mr. Biden would have to represent the lesser evil. Which would mean that somehow his—I.e. the Democratic Party platform— would have to contain a moral good which is greater than the moral evil of same. The moral evil of the Democratic Party would contain both the preeminent. Issue of abortion as well as the moral evils of support and even codification of law regarding homosexual actions, ‘gay marriage’, contraception, etc.

So what would be the moral evils that are ‘greater’ than those which would allow a person to support Mr. Biden?

First, there are no DEATHS which are guaranteed in the Republican Party platforms. So right away the preeminent issue of deaths through abortion via the Democrats has exceeded any ‘nondeath issues’ of the Republicans.

So what moral evils do the Republicans uphold as planks in the platform?

I’m not talking about whether individuals in the party make racist or sexist statements or don’t give to UNICEF or whatever (because you’ll find plenty of those in the Democratic Party as well).

What ISSUES do the Republicans support which are morally evil?