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AlbMagno
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The ends do not justify the means.
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MiserereMeiDei
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That’s not an answer. Please find the canon.
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FossilResin
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AlbMagno
Guest
There is not canon that says that idols can be placed in a church. If they are idols or not is disputed. And that is where we disagree.
There is not canon that says that you must throw someone else’s property in a river.
And, I’ve already talked about Jesus and the temple and similar situations. Are we God to do this kind of things? Did these young men receive a mystical order from God to do this like Moses did?
Should we invade the Hagia Sophia and destroy all the muslim religious elements, then?
There is not canon that says that you must throw someone else’s property in a river.
And, I’ve already talked about Jesus and the temple and similar situations. Are we God to do this kind of things? Did these young men receive a mystical order from God to do this like Moses did?
Should we invade the Hagia Sophia and destroy all the muslim religious elements, then?
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Polak
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That’s a good point. If the idols are found they might just get placed in the church again? Are these people, or others, just going to keep going in and and throwing them out until security is put there?
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Taras_Bulba
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Lesson learned: when you strike at Not-cha-mama, finish the job.
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MiserereMeiDei
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Thank you.
We could until people made obeisance to them. After that it became obvious they weren’t to be thought of as mere statues. I mean, you can argue otherwise but it’s rather hollow.
True. But there is a letter from st. Gregory the Great saying to destroy the idols in the temples of the Anglo-Saxon pagans as well as the examples of the Machabees, St Benedict, St. Boniface and others.
Don’t need to be. See above, unless you believe the saints were wrong too.
Did Phineas? Did St. Boniface? Did the Machabees? Seems like it isn’t necessary. Also, wouldn’t you disbelieve them anyway, like the English did St. Joan of Ark?
Well… I’m not opposed to taking it back and reconsecrating it.
However your metaphor is inapt. Can you see the problem with it?
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Polak
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How many movies have we seen where they throw a guy into the river, he vanishes, so they fire a few shots to make sure that he is dead, wait a few minutes, then leave, assuming the job is done?
Low and behold, it later turns out he survived.
Low and behold, it later turns out he survived.
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Taras_Bulba
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Yes, if James Bond villain captured P-ma he would construct an intricate means of disposal involving industrial robots with lasers.
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AlbMagno
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Did you read the part about a mystical order in my post? Please read carefully my post before arguing (to all my critics).
As far as I know, these men were not prophets, and didn’t hear God ordering them to throw statues into the river.
If anything, they are just making more difficult an evangelization effort carried out by the Vicar of Christ and his Church. Who knows if the Holy Spirit willed the Synod?
As far as I know, these men were not prophets, and didn’t hear God ordering them to throw statues into the river.
If anything, they are just making more difficult an evangelization effort carried out by the Vicar of Christ and his Church. Who knows if the Holy Spirit willed the Synod?
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Aquinas11
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So this is the culprit who is down with the 1st commandment!
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Johann_du_Toit
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I think ,most English speaking Catholics (not just Americans) would object. In fact, the young man in the video is not even English speaking, but from Austria.
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MagdalenaRita
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Yes. To me he is a hero for taking the idols out of the Church and for having the courage to admit he did it.
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Aquinas11
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Exactly. If he had taken a gun from a mass shooter in the Church, would his critics still be saying “Theft! he took private property!!”
No of course not. So its not that its “theft” that their critics dislike.
Its that, to their critics, it seems more important to appease non-Catholic cultures (? to score social brownie points?) than to abide by the Holy 10 Commandments. I can’t fathom it. Yes we’re living in an era where diversity, inclusivity, etc are emphasized but they are emphasized in a worldly (trendy) sense. I could go and tell my non-Catholic friends “hey guys, check it out, we have Pagan Idols in our Churches, we’re cool and hip and down with the whole diversity thing! So please like us and stop saying we’re evil!” To me that’s the motivation - pure cultural appeasement.
Holy Scripture says over and over again do not put what is worldly over and above what is God’s Holy Law. St Paul says it until he is blue in the face. Yet it seems like it is being ignored right now.
No of course not. So its not that its “theft” that their critics dislike.
Its that, to their critics, it seems more important to appease non-Catholic cultures (? to score social brownie points?) than to abide by the Holy 10 Commandments. I can’t fathom it. Yes we’re living in an era where diversity, inclusivity, etc are emphasized but they are emphasized in a worldly (trendy) sense. I could go and tell my non-Catholic friends “hey guys, check it out, we have Pagan Idols in our Churches, we’re cool and hip and down with the whole diversity thing! So please like us and stop saying we’re evil!” To me that’s the motivation - pure cultural appeasement.
Holy Scripture says over and over again do not put what is worldly over and above what is God’s Holy Law. St Paul says it until he is blue in the face. Yet it seems like it is being ignored right now.
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Divine3
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Very good interview with the man who took action against having inappropriate figurines in a Catholic Church.
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VanitasVanitatum
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Going public doesn’t really look like a neccessary thing to do, and it’s going to get a bunch of backlash too. Why even bother to do such a fruitlesss thing?
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rom
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I think otherwise. The Bible says that there is “time to keep silence, and a time to speak” (Ecclesiastes 3:7). Alexander, the guy who took the Pachamamas out of the church, is coming out now because the time to be silent is over. He was silent for a while because he wanted people and the media to focus on what was done, rather than who did it. He is coming out now to continue the work that he started. He didn’t want the world to think that he was ashamed of what he did, or that he was a coward hiding under the veil of anonymity. He wanted the world to know that what happened was done by real people who love the Catholic Faith. And he founded the St. Boniface Institute to rally the laity to join him in restoring our Catholic Faith and culture, which is slowly being eroded by the liberals in the church. He is a great young man, and a brave one!
I think he is referring to future videos from the St. Boniface Institute that he founded. That will come later.
In his interview with John-Henry Westen of Lifesitenews (beginning at 8:10), he said that he has proof and other photos/videos where you can actually see his face, and that he was the one who actually took the Pachamamas out of the church.
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VanitasVanitatum
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Aquinas11
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Not doing something if it causes fire, backlash, controversy? Good thing Jesus and Saints didn’t take that approach
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VanitasVanitatum
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That’s not evidence that this instance was justified. Besides the internet makes communication completely different so it’s not that comparable to the past.
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