"One of three"

[Eucharisted]

Qu’ran 5:73

YUSUFALI: They do blaspheme who say: Allah is one of three in a Trinity
PICKTHAL: They surely disbelieve who say: Lo! Allah is the third of three
SHAKIR: Certainly they disbelieve who say: Surely Allah is the third (person) of the three

Do Christians believe God is a third of three? Let’s find out together.

Christians believe God is One in three Persons: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Each Person is God, in virtue of the Oneness of God*, so when Christians speak of the Father, they speak of God, or when they speak of the Son, they speak of God, or again when they speak of the Holy Spirit, they speak of God. This is why Christians sometimes say, “God the Father,” or “God the Son,” or “God the Holy Spirit.” Now, because each Person is God, Christians call the Son of the Father “the Son of God,” and they call the Holy Spirit “the Spirit of God”. It is a reafirmation of the Oneness of God.

When people hear God the Father, they might get confused and think, “So only one Person is God? But what are the other two?” And this can cause some misunderstanding. An exemplary case of such misunderstanding is Mohammed’s understanding of God in Christianity. He thought that the first Person - the Father - was only God, and so, he wondered what the other two Persons were. Because He saw Christians worshipping Jesus, and because he assumed that building churches dedicating to the saints was worship, he thought that the Trinity was God and Jesus and Jesus’ mother; he thought that Christians worship Jesus and Mary next to God. Hence, the Qu’ran states that Christians call God a third of three and say Christians place Jesus and Mary beside God.

• In Judaism and in Christianity, God is One and Unity. His Unity is a Oneness and His Oneness is a Unity. The understanding of God’s Oneness is different in both religions: In Judaism, God is a Unity in virtue of His Attributes; in Christianity, God is a Unity in virtue of His Persons. Jews believe the Word of God and the Spirit of God (Holy Spirit) are two Attributes of God (Verbitum and Presence); Christians believe the Word of God and the Holy Spirit are two Persons (Son and Spirit).

 

[apromisemade]

Thank heavens I’m not the only one this occured to

 

[geometer]

The scriptures say that God is not a man, and also God is no respector of persons.

There is no statement from God in scripture where he tells that he is three persons.

There are many statements of his oneness.

 

[Jay53]

Jesus did say:

Matthew 28:18-25
Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

 

[geometer]

Jesus did say:

Matthew 28:18-25
Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

The jews have many names for god, which is very traditional. But, to say that God is many persons is uncalled for.

Our father in heaven, is a traditional name of God, and so is the Holy Spirit.

 

[Snerticus]

I know this is OT, but I saw the title of the thread and thought to myself, “no, it’s seven of nine”…

Only Trekkies will get that.

Snert

(Sorry, you can get back on topic now.)

 

[Jay53]

The jews have many names for god, which is very traditional. But, to say that God is many persons is uncalled for.

I may just not be getting your point - are you arguing semantics?

Our father in heaven, is a traditional name of God, and so is the Holy Spirit.

Not sure what you’re saying here, either - that Jesus did not say Father, Son and Holy Spirit- or that He was wrong in saying so (Father and Holy Spirit are OK, but Son is wrong? - or ??? (Sorry, I must be having a slow morning - I’m not understanding you at all.)

 

[JonNC]

I know this is OT, but I saw the title of the thread and thought to myself, “no, it’s seven of nine”…
Only Trekkies will get that.
Snert
(Sorry, you can get back on topic now.)

“Set course for the Alpha quadrant, Mr. Parris, warp factor 8”


Sorry, OP.

 

[geometer]

I may just not be getting your point - are you arguing semantics?

Not sure what you’re saying here, either - that Jesus did not say Father, Son and Holy Spirit- or that He was wrong in saying so (Father and Holy Spirit are OK, but Son is wrong? - or ??? (Sorry, I must be having a slow morning - I’m not understanding you at all.)

He probably did tell them to baptize in the name of the father, son and Holy spirit. But, I do not believe he was naming three persons. He called us to become sons of God. It is perfectly understandable that a man be a son, but not understandable that god is a son.

In Genesis many sons of God are written about, that does not mean that there are many gods. Son of God has some kind of traditional meaning in Judaism. Jesus said to ask the Rabbis if you want to know what the scriptures mean, because he was a Jew and knew that the Rabbis know scripture.

Trinity came about through one of the councils, long after they stopped asking the Rabbis for guidance. Trinity comes from the gentiles, and Jesus said that gentiles are to be treated like tax collectors…

 

[Sister_Amy]

Seems like Eucharisted is arguing semantics, here.

Do Christians believe in a Trinity, yes or no? Answer is yes.

Is that Trinity made up of three persons: “Father,” “Son,” and “Holy Spirit,” yes or no? Answer is yes.

The entity which Christians refer to as “Father” is God Almighty, Allah. The “Son,” aka Jesus, is not, and the “Holy Spirit,” aka Gabriel, is not either.

 

[Silvereel]

Not sure when the Holy Spirit became Gabriel… the Trinity is a really hard concept to get one’s head around. Basicly, the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are three but also one.

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

 

[geometer]

Seems like Eucharisted is arguing semantics, here.

Do Christians believe in a Trinity, yes or no? Answer is yes.

Is that Trinity made up of three persons: “Father,” “Son,” and “Holy Spirit,” yes or no? Answer is yes.

The entity which Christians refer to as “Father” is God Almighty, Allah. The “Son,” aka Jesus, is not, and the “Holy Spirit,” aka Gabriel, is not either.

The Holy spirit is God. His spirit is holy that is what the name means…

 

[Eucharisted]

Seems like Eucharisted is arguing semantics, here.

Do Christians believe in a Trinity, yes or no? Answer is yes.

Is that Trinity made up of three persons: “Father,” “Son,” and “Holy Spirit,” yes or no? Answer is yes.

The entity which Christians refer to as “Father” is God Almighty, Allah. The “Son,” aka Jesus, is not, and the “Holy Spirit,” aka Gabriel, is not either.

Wrong. But it’s an understandable mistake.

The Son is not Jesus. Jesus is the Son Incarnate. It’s different. How? The Son is God. Jesus is the Son (God) Incarnate (Man): Jesus is God and Man. The Son is not Man but God.

The Holy Spirit is God, just as the Father and the Son is God.

Jews believe the Holy Spirit is the Presence of God.

 

[Jay53]

Seems like Eucharisted is arguing semantics, here.

Do Christians believe in a Trinity, yes or no? Answer is yes.

Is that Trinity made up of three persons: “Father,” “Son,” and “Holy Spirit,” yes or no? Answer is yes.

The entity which Christians refer to as “Father” is God Almighty, Allah. The “Son,” aka Jesus, is not, and the “Holy Spirit,” aka Gabriel, is not either.

The Holy Spirit has never been the angel Gabriel. I think someone else mentioned that on these forums as well and I honestly have no idea where anyone got that idea. Is this something mentioned in the Quran?

 

[Sister_Amy]

Wrong. But it’s an understandable mistake.

The Son is not Jesus. Jesus is the Son Incarnate. It’s different. How? The Son is God. Jesus is the Son (God) Incarnate (Man): Jesus is God and Man. The Son is not Man but God.

The Holy Spirit is God, just as the Father and the Son is God.

Jews believe the Holy Spirit is the Presence of God.

You’re playing with semantics again.

 

[Sister_Amy]

The Holy Spirit has never been the angel Gabriel. I think someone else mentioned that on these forums as well and I honestly have no idea where anyone got that idea. Is this something mentioned in the Quran?

Yes. In Islam, the Holy Spirit is another name for the Angel Gabriel.

 

[Jay53]

Yes. In Islam, the Holy Spirit is another name for the Angel Gabriel.

But in Christianity the Holy Spirit has NEVER been the Angel Gabriel. Who would have changed this and why?

 

[Sister_Amy]

But in Christianity the Holy Spirit has NEVER been the Angel Gabriel. Who would have changed this and why?

Clearly some misguided “Christian,” trying to make God 3-in-1.

Christianity as you know it today is not the be-all end-all of religious beliefs. Perhaps it is a flaw, especially of modern Catholics, that because they have such a long church history and tradition, they think that all Christians always believed what they now believe.

 

[Jay53]

Clearly some misguided “Christian,” trying to make God 3-in-1.

Christianity as you know it today is not the be-all end-all of religious beliefs. Perhaps it is a flaw, especially of modern Catholics, that because they have such a long church history and tradition, they think that all Christians always believed what they now believe.

What? A misguided Christian tried to make God 3 in 1 by changing the Holy Spirit to the Angel Gabriel and that is what Muhammad included in Islam? That doesn’t even make sense! I can assure you that the Holy Spirit was NEVER the Angel Gabriel in Christianity. If you have a source that says otherwise I would be interested to see it.

 

[Sister_Amy]

What? A misguided Christian tried to make God 3 in 1 by changing the Holy Spirit to the Angel Gabriel and that is what Muhammad included in Islam? That doesn’t even make sense! I can assure you that the Holy Spirit was NEVER the Angel Gabriel in Christianity. If you have a source that says otherwise I would be interested to see it.

Rather, someone changed the Holy Spirit, who is the angel Gabriel, and said that it is part of God, that it is part of the trinity, when it never was. That is the misguided part. Only Christians follow that erroneous belief.