One sin and it's hell forever?

[fix]

Scott Waddell:

The Church tells us that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, and that he gave the Church the authority to teach in his name and Catholics believe the Church. There is nothing remotely wrong with this. Could the Church be talking through its hat? In the vast universe of academic hypotheticals, possibly. But a Catholic makes enormous problems for himself if he says the Church is right about x, but wrong about y. The main one being that one has to entertain the possiblity that every bit of Christianity is bunk.

Yes, that is the point. Either the Church is exactly who She says She is, or there is no Christianity. The entire thing is false.

 

[Gerrygarvin]

Scott Waddell:

But a Catholic makes enormous problems for himself if he says the Church is right about x, but wrong about y. The main one being that one has to entertain the possiblity that every bit of Christianity is bunk.

I don’t really agree. I think that believing the church has to be
%100 correct everything creates more problems, because then one has to accept that any mistake the church might make debunks the foundation of the entire religion.

I on the other hand have no problem thinking indulgences are a little “loopy” but Christ was divine & rose from the dead. I think by recognizing your starting assumptions about why you believe what about the church, you are on more solid footing than just believing “the church has to be right!”

and before someone adds “cafeteria catholic” to the list of my negative attributes which already includes being a scandal monger, illogical, hating the church, and being anti-clerical, it’s not accurate. I am pro-life, use NFP with the wife, etc. I just think we need to be a little more thorough in questioning every possible motivation and rationale for making statements like “missing mass is worse than murder.”

 

[Scott_Waddell]

Gerrygarvin:

I don’t really agree. I think that believing the church has to be
%100 correct everything creates more problems, because then one has to accept that any mistake the church might make debunks the foundation of the entire religion.

Which mistake would that be and by what authority could it be deemed a mistake?

I on the other hand have no problem thinking indulgences are a little “loopy” but Christ was divine & rose from the dead.

It is not loopy when one believes that the Church has the power and authority to bind and loose. Penance in the early days was tough. It is good news that the Church is giving us a break through indulgences! So get lots of them!

I think by recognizing your starting assumptions about why you believe what about the church, you are on more solid footing than just believing “the church has to be right!”

Here I think we have the beginnings of an agreement. My concern was that you were suggesting that is unreasonable to believe the Church is exactly as advertised. I’m interpreting that you do not think this. A profitable reading for anyone is Cardinal Newman’s Grammer of Assent which, although is more concerned with answering the non-Catholic charge that one has to be infallible to believe the Church, touches on this subject.

and before someone adds “cafeteria catholic” to the list of my negative attributes which already includes being a scandal monger, illogical, hating the church, and being anti-clerical, it’s not accurate.

Have a little faith in your Catholic bretheren.

I am pro-life, use NFP with the wife, etc. I just think we need to be a little more thorough in questioning every possible motivation and rationale for making statements like “missing mass is worse than murder.”

Good to hear. Questioning is fine. But (and I’m copyrighting this ) , the vast universe of hypotheticals is a nice place to visit, but you wouldn’t want to live there. I am going assume good faith on your part and that although you have difficulties with certain Church teachings, you have not completely and formally ruled them out.

Scott

 

[Mom_of_5]

prodigal-sun:

Before you go ahead & say something that places Mother Theresa in such a light as this please find out what she believes about missing mass before you put actions into her life that are not hers! Doing this brings scandal unto her and if you respect her as much as you say you do than please give her the respect she deserves!

Peace!

I have the greatest respect for Mother Teresa. Here are a few of her quotes “I’ve always said we should help a Hindu become a better Hindu, a Muslim become a better Muslim, a Catholic to become a better Catholic…” “There are so many different religions and each has its different ways of following God, I follow Christ.” I read about her often. I don’t bring scandal to this very beautiful woman when I say she put her mission of helping people, all faiths without the intent of converting them to Catholicism ahead of anything else. That MAY mean that if she was in the midst of her work at Mass time, I would make a huge bet that she would do God’s work of helping her fellow man above going to Mass.

Ask your confessor, when you go to confession the next time, if you were on a camping trip on a mountain on a Sunday with mass no closer than 50–100 miles, is it a sin not to go? I already did, the priest laughed at me!! He said, “use common sense”. The priest gives me a “pass”, yet those on this forum hand me a ticket to hell!.. WOW, art thou the holy ones!!

 

[rlg94086]

There’s something called a dispensation you should get from your priest ahead of time. I’ve done it when flying to Japan (I leave Saturday at noon and arrive in Japan Sunday at 5PM). I’m not clear how, in your camping example, Sunday Mass crept up on your camper out-of-the-blue. The calendar isn’t that hard to read.

Now, if by unforeseen circumstances (flood, snowed in, car broke down) your camper was not able to make it home, and missed Mass even though he had no dispensation and no intention of missing Mass…no problem.
Mom of 5:

I have the greatest respect for Mother Teresa. Here are a few of her quotes “I’ve always said we should help a Hindu become a better Hindu, a Muslim become a better Muslim, a Catholic to become a better Catholic…” “There are so many different religions and each has its different ways of following God, I follow Christ.” I read about her often. I don’t bring scandal to this very beautiful woman when I say she put her mission of helping people, all faiths without the intent of converting them to Catholicism ahead of anything else. That MAY mean that if she was in the midst of her work at Mass time, I would make a huge bet that she would do God’s work of helping her fellow man above going to Mass.

Ask your confessor, when you go to confession the next time, if you were on a camping trip on a mountain on a Sunday with mass no closer than 50–100 miles, is it a sin not to go? I already did, the priest laughed at me!! He said, “use common sense”. The priest gives me a “pass”, yet those on this forum hand me a ticket to hell!.. WOW, art thou the holy ones!!

 

[Mom_of_5]

rlg94086:

There’s something called a dispensation you should get from your priest ahead of time. I’ve done it when flying to Japan (I leave Saturday at noon and arrive in Japan Sunday at 5PM). I’m not clear how, in your camping example, Sunday Mass crept up on your camper out-of-the-blue. The calendar isn’t that hard to read.

Now, if by unforeseen circumstances (flood, snowed in, car broke down) your camper was not able to make it home, and missed Mass even though he had no dispensation and no intention of missing Mass…no problem.

You incorrectly assume that we had a camper!! WRONG! We had an old station wagon that we packed with 5 kids and camping gear. Yes, we could read the calendar, however, the work schedule only allowed us a few weekends a year. We would have had to dismantle the tent, take down the tent site to go to mass, go back and set it all back up. You just didn’t leave a camp site unattended or when you returned it would likely be gone. My priest was o.k. with all of this, I truly believe God was o.k., but my fellow Catholics are still giving me a ticket to hell, think I’ll just stick with the 2 most important!!

Love and peace,
Mom of 5

 

[Scott_Waddell]

I must have missed the post that asserted that missing mass for any reason equals automatic Hell. Will you at least agree that God deserves worship at the appointed time and that to deliberately refuse to do so constitutes a grave matter?

Scptt

 

[rlg94086]

I meant camper as in an individual (your example didn’t say it was your personal experience, as you said “you”, I took it as a general camper).

Again, you should get a dispensation before you go camping, that’s what I meant about the calendar. Planning ahead is a good thing. I would question the importance you place on Mass, if the thought that you would miss it didn’t even occur to you when planning your camping trip.

So, let me assume you didn’t plan ahead, totally forgot you were going to be camping on a Sunday and were dealing with the dilemma out in the wilderness. Well, since you didn’t intentionally mean to miss Mass, I’m guessing it’s not a mortal sin.

Again, planning ahead is not that difficult. It sounds like you have a reasonable priest, so letting him know that you are going camping and asking for a dispensation to miss Mass would probably be received well.

God bless,

Robert
Mom of 5:

You incorrectly assume that we had a camper!! WRONG! We had an old station wagon that we packed with 5 kids and camping gear. Yes, we could read the calendar, however, the work schedule only allowed us a few weekends a year. We would have had to dismantle the tent, take down the tent site to go to mass, go back and set it all back up. You just didn’t leave a camp site unattended or when you returned it would likely be gone. My priest was o.k. with all of this, I truly believe God was o.k., but my fellow Catholics are still giving me a ticket to hell, think I’ll just stick with the 2 most important!!

Love and peace,
Mom of 5

 

[Orionthehunter]

rlg94086:

I meant camper as in an individual (your example didn’t say it was your personal experience, as you said “you”, I took it as a general camper).

Again, you should get a dispensation before you go camping, that’s what I meant about the calendar. Planning ahead is a good thing. I would question the importance you place on Mass, if the thought that you would miss it didn’t even occur to you when planning your camping trip.

So, let me assume you didn’t plan ahead, totally forgot you were going to be camping on a Sunday and were dealing with the dilemma out in the wilderness. Well, since you didn’t intentionally mean to miss Mass, I’m guessing it’s not a mortal sin.

Again, planning ahead is not that difficult. It sounds like you have a reasonable priest, so letting him know that you are going camping and asking for a dispensation to miss Mass would probably be received well.

God bless,

Robert

I don’t want to get into the issue of is one required to get a dispensation when one is undertaking plans that will result in Mass being missed (I think it is but that is another matter). I’d like to address the merits for one’s soul and potentially children.

1. Taking the action to talk to your Priest prior to is indication that you are not missing Mass lightly.
2. If you have children, you are teaching your children that missing Mass is not to be taken lightly.
3. It gives your Priest an opportunity to excercise his teaching obligation ("Read the Gospel for the day and reflect on x and y as it applies to your life).
4. It will probably remind you to throw your Bible in with your luggage, note the readings, and spend an hour in prayerful spiritual communion w/ your fellow parishioners (remember when you miss Mass, you are expected to find an hour of prayerful worship).
5. If you take time as a family to pray while away, it will be a good lesson to your children.