One sin and it's hell forever?

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Linnyo:
You DON’T have the right to decide whether or not a person is Catholic or not. Thank the Lord cos if it was your decision there would hardly be any catholics.
Ummm … neither do you. I think you’ll find the Church’s leaders do, and I also think you’ll find the same Church’s leaders would say that you have to accept their authority and their teachings, including the Catechism and other rulings that declare missing Mass without reason to be a mortal sin.
 
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LilyM:
Ummm … neither do you. I think you’ll find the Church’s leaders do, and I also think you’ll find the same Church’s leaders would say that you have to accept their authority and their teachings, including the Catechism and other rulings that declare missing Mass without reason to be a mortal sin.
And whooo exactly are you??? I don’t know you or Fix from Adam so I doubt your authority on this thread.
 
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Linnyo:
Fix…get a grip! Thou art not any holier than anyone else. You are allowed to accept the infallibility of the pope if you want but don’t expect everyone else to!
Linnyo - actually you are required to accept the dogma of papal infallibility. Read Vatican I - but especially read Bishop Gasser’s Relatio on the meaning of the VI definition.

To reject papal infallibility is to be a heretic. Sorry.
 
Well then I’m a heretic :eek: . The Bible says we all sin and all fall short of the glory of God. I’m no worse off than anyone else here!
 
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Linnyo:
Well then I’m a heretic :eek: . The Bible says we all sin and all fall short of the glory of God. I’m no worse off than anyone else here!
There are several practicing catholic heretics I know and none of them seem to be bothered. I know hardly anyone who accepts every teaching of the RCC. The true RCC (- the heretics) must be very small in number! 😛
 
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Linnyo:
Well then I’m a heretic :eek: . The Bible says we all sin and all fall short of the glory of God. I’m no worse off than anyone else here!
Well as a heretic you probably are worse off. Deliberate rejection of dogma, presuming no invincible ignorance, is to court damnation. Extra Ecclesia Salus Nulus - Outside the Church there is No Salvation. Though no doubt there are other heretics on these boards.
 
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Linnyo:
There are several practicing catholic heretics I know and none of them seem to be bothered. I know hardly anyone who accepts every teaching of the RCC. The true RCC (- the heretics) must be very small in number! 😛
Jesus said ‘narrow is the way and difficult the path …’

I’m sorry if it’s too hard for you and your friends Linnyo, doesn’t make you right 😛

I agree we’re all sinners - heresy is a different kettle of fish to most other sins though.
 
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johnnykins:
Well as a heretic you probably are worse off. Deliberate rejection of dogma, presuming no invincible ignorance, is to court damnation. Extra Ecclesia Salus Nulus - Outside the Church there is No Salvation. Though no doubt there are other heretics on these boards.
Fortunately, I do not answer to you but to God and I know for a fact that he loves me and that I rest in his salvation. It says that in the Bible so argue with that and we’ll see who is a heretic.
 
Sorry, I got carried away there. I have no right to judge you. You are just trying to please God in the way that you believe to be right as am I.
 
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Linnyo:
There are several practicing catholic heretics I know and none of them seem to be bothered. I know hardly anyone who accepts every teaching of the RCC. The true RCC (- the heretics) must be very small in number! 😛
Could be, though I think you are confusing either sin or non-dogmatic teachings (or both) with dogma. Rejection of dogma is heresy. Maybe because of the malcatechesis of the last 40 years many “catholics” don’t know that. Nonetheless that’s the fact.

My suggestion is that you really need to look into this issue. Particularly reading the Relatio (and Karl’s explanation on this website). They explain it in a way that most folks don’t find offensive. What I find most people find offensive is what they think infallibility is all about. Usually they are mistaken.

Pax te cum
 
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Linnyo:
Sorry, I got carried away there. I have no right to judge you. You are just trying to please God in the way that you believe to be right as am I.
No problem

I realy think you would find the topic interesting if not compelling.

peace
 
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johnnykins:
Could be, though I think you are confusing either sin or non-dogmatic teachings (or both) with dogma. Rejection of dogma is heresy. Maybe because of the malcatechesis of the last 40 years many “catholics” don’t know that. Nonetheless that’s the fact.

My suggestion is that you really need to look into this issue. Particularly reading the Relatio (and Karl’s explanation on this website). They explain it in a way that most folks don’t find offensive. What I find most people find offensive is what they think infallibility is all about. Usually they are mistaken.

Pax te cum
I am confused now. I can’t even say that word let alone understand it 'malcatechesis ’
 
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Linnyo:
I am confused now. I can’t even say that word let alone understand it 'malcatechesis ’
mal=bad/evil/
catechesis = teaching of the faith (it’s related to catechism)

It refers to the almost total lack of teaching, or the wrongful teaching, of the faith over the last 40 years…
 
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Linnyo:
You DON’T have the right to decide whether or not a person is Catholic or not. Thank the Lord cos if it was your decision there would hardly be any catholics.
Where did I say I did? I pointed out what the Church says about not fulfilling the Sunday obligation. I asked why folks would claim to be Catholic, yet reject the authority of the Church. What is unfair about any of that?
 
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Linnyo:
Fortunately, I do not answer to you but to God and I know for a fact that he loves me and that I rest in his salvation. It says that in the Bible so argue with that and we’ll see who is a heretic.
You might want to google 'Council of trent" - I think it’s Hanover University that has posted a translation of the canons and decrees of that council. There probably are others. In any event, you might want to look at those documents to see also what the Church has to say about salvation, etc. The language is very specific and careful - so don’t read it loosely. But it is authoritative catholic teaching on salvation and a number of other issues.
 
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johnnykins:
Linnyo - actually you are required to accept the dogma of papal infallibility. Read Vatican I - but especially read Bishop Gasser’s Relatio on the meaning of the VI definition.

To reject papal infallibility is to be a heretic. Sorry.
Actually to reject papal infallibility is a heresy. To be a heretic requires one to be be officially judged one by the Church or requires one to have the knowledge, will, and love of God. Additionally, just like sin, one has to have full knowledge of what they are promoting, its implications w/ regard to final judgement of their soul, and a willful free agreement w/ the heresy to be a heretic. In today’s world of what you call malcatechized (I love that new word!), you have to wonder how many really qualify as a heretic despite their adherence to heresies.
 
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Orionthehunter:
Actually to reject papal infallibility is a heresy. To be a heretic requires one to be be officially judged one by the Church or requires one to have the knowledge, will, and love of God. Additionally, just like sin, one has to have full knowledge of what they are promoting, its implications w/ regard to final judgement of their soul, and a willful free agreement w/ the heresy to be a heretic. In today’s world of what you call malcatechized (I love that new word!), you have to wonder how many really qualify as a heretic despite their adherence to heresies.
I don’t completely disagree with you. See also post 66.
However, an official determination is not necessay. Heresy like any other mortal sin has the same requirements.

Heresy is simply the rejection of dogma.
 
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LilyM:
Ummm … neither do you. I think you’ll find the Church’s leaders do, and I also think you’ll find the same Church’s leaders would say that you have to accept their authority and their teachings, including the Catechism and other rulings that declare missing Mass without reason to be a mortal sin.
Funny how the same church leaders also get paid by my coming to church and putting money in the collection plate. Convenient for them that it’s a mortal sin not to show up!
 
I’m sure they all joined the priesthood for the money :rolleyes: .

It is a mortal sin, because you are physically (by choosing not to receive the Eucharist) separating yourself from Christ and breaking the Commandment to keep the Lord’s Day holy.
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Gerrygarvin:
Funny how the same church leaders also get paid by my coming to church and putting money in the collection plate. Convenient for them that it’s a mortal sin not to show up!
 
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johnnykins:
I don’t completely disagree with you. See also post 66.
However, an official determination is not necessay. Heresy like any other mortal sin has the same requirements.

Heresy is simply the rejection of dogma.
I think we agree. The accusation of being a heretic is very serious and contains eternal adverse consequences. Both for charity sake and also to encourage an opportunity to dialogue/communicate/catechize, it is better to stay on the objective (a idea is an objective heresy) and not on the subjective and personal (a person is a heretic).

Additionally, while it appears to be semantic, it is actually quite concrete. Your or I have neither the information, knowledge or authority to judge another a heretic. This can only be done by self (acknowledging it is a heresy, understanding its eternal consequences, and doing so freely) or by a particular act of the Church after due process according to canon law.
 
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