Online survey reveals "favorite" liturgical music

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The parish I belong to has three groups doing music. We have a Contemporary Music Ministry group, a lady who plays piano and songleads, and my small fledgling Traditionalish Choir.

My group has a fanclub… groupies if you will. A bunch of older ladies who are always happy to have us lead the music at Mass. Not meant as a perjoritive, they always say they feel like they can “sing along with us,” and that other group is just “too good.” What they actually mean is that our group picks out familiar hymns and sings/plays them in such a way that the congregation can join in.

I’ll make everyone who’s coming down on the side of Traditional hymns case for them. At Mass last night, here was the playlist:

Processional: A Mighty Fortress (I know it’s a Martin Luther/Bach hymn, but it was on the list from NPM)
Offertory: We Remember
Communion: Behold the Lamb
Recessional: Holy God We Praise Thy Name

Guess which two hymns the congregation belted out a maximum volume. Guess which two they didn’t hardly sing at all.

As a side note, our parish uses the liturgy guides from the National Association of Pastoral Musicians (NPM). I haven’t been super pleased with the selections. I’m actually finding that if I select music the Old Fashioned way (and I’ve been doing church music since I was 13, and only started using a liturgy guide since I got to my current parish) and reading the readings and picking out hymns MYSELF, I have more success picking out good ones that reflect the readings and the mood of the Sunday. Is anyone else having this issue with their liturgy guides?
 
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prayingmama:
The Importance of Singing (GIRM)
  1. The Christian faithful who gather together as one to await the Lord’s coming are instructed by the Apostle Paul to sing together psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs (cf. Col 3:16). Singing is the sign of the heart’s joy (cf. Acts 2:46). Thus Saint Augustine says rightly, "Singing is for one who loves."48 There is also the ancient proverb: “One who sings well prays twice.”
  2. Great importance should therefore be attached to the use of singing in the celebration of the Mass, with due consideration for the culture of the people and abilities of each liturgical assembly.
(emphasis mine) I don’t see any problem with a bunch of common folk singing “Here I Am Lord”. I figure if those words are good enough for 1 Samuel and Psalm 40, we can sing them and learn something about God and grow closer to Him.
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The GIRM just gives direction to sing but not direction of what to sing. For that you need to read the magisterial documents of sacred music like Musicam Sacram and Musicae Sacrae. If you go with just the GIRM you are missing the whole principle of liturgical music and the purpose it serves and the lack of subjectivit that proper sacred music holds.
 
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MusicMan:
The parish I belong to has three groups doing music. We have a Contemporary Music Ministry group, a lady who plays piano and songleads, and my small fledgling Traditionalish Choir.

My group has a fanclub… groupies if you will. A bunch of older ladies who are always happy to have us lead the music at Mass. Not meant as a perjoritive, they always say they feel like they can “sing along with us,” and that other group is just “too good.” What they actually mean is that our group picks out familiar hymns and sings/plays them in such a way that the congregation can join in.

I’ll make everyone who’s coming down on the side of Traditional hymns case for them. At Mass last night, here was the playlist:

Processional: A Mighty Fortress (I know it’s a Martin Luther/Bach hymn, but it was on the list from NPM)
Offertory: We Remember
Communion: Behold the Lamb
Recessional: Holy God We Praise Thy Name

Guess which two hymns the congregation belted out a maximum volume. Guess which two they didn’t hardly sing at all.

As a side note, our parish uses the liturgy guides from the National Association of Pastoral Musicians (NPM). I haven’t been super pleased with the selections. I’m actually finding that if I select music the Old Fashioned way (and I’ve been doing church music since I was 13, and only started using a liturgy guide since I got to my current parish) and reading the readings and picking out hymns MYSELF, I have more success picking out good ones that reflect the readings and the mood of the Sunday. Is anyone else having this issue with their liturgy guides?
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I have yet to meet a decent music minister who takes them seriously.
 
I take it you’re telling me that once the liturgy guides arrive they should go right to the shredder, and I should exclusively plan music using the lectionary/missal?
 
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MusicMan:
I take it your telling me that once the liturgy guides arrive they should go right to the shredder, and I should exclusively plan music using the lectionary/missal?
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Yes, or there are other sources. Do you have a subscription to the Adoremus Bulletin?
 
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MusicMan:
No, I don’t.
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You should invest in one. It is very insigtful. At the seminary the liturgical “stuff” that was found in it was pretty much our touchstone for liturgical rectitude. The are fairly cheap but worth their weight in gold. The site is www.adoremus.org
 
I am browing the site now. I am pleased with its content.

One of my goals with my group was to reintroduce this parish to the old, classic hymns. These are the ones the congregation really belts out. Unfortunately, I am a child of the “contemporary” music movement. When I was in grade school, our Masses used the “Hi God” series. The Reverend Carey Landry was all the rage, and my parish was so proud when they bought their first set of “Glory and Praise” books. I like “Holy God, We Praise Thy Name.” I like “On Eagles Wings” too.

From me, you’ll find I am successful with a mixture of the old and the new. However, it’s clear that it’s time for me to invest in a different liturgy guide.
 
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MusicMan:
I am browing the site now. I am pleased with its content.

One of my goals with my group was to reintroduce this parish to the old, classic hymns. These are the ones the congregation really belts out. Unfortunately, I am a child of the “contemporary” music movement. When I was in grade school, our Masses used the “Hi God” series. The Reverend Carey Landry was all the rage, and my parish was so proud when they bought their first set of “Glory and Praise” books. I like “Holy God, We Praise Thy Name.” I like “On Eagles Wings” too.

From me, you’ll find I am successful with a mixture of the old and the new. However, it’s clear that it’s time for me to invest in a different liturgy guide.
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It is a little expensive but it you have the latitude I would suggest taking a look at the music book called “By Flowing Waters.” It is not a hymnal but is rather the Graduale Simplex translated into english. So, it allows for the average parish to sing the propers of the mass. It is well adapted and allows us to follow the highest option of singing the mass parts instead of other hymns in places such as the procession where there is actually a proper antiphone. Like I said, however, is that it is expensive yet even at the second seminary I attended the person in charge of the music was in favor of switching to this book.
 
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prayingmama:
We could discuss it till the cows come home and never agree. Good thread, though, thanks for calling ‘the favorites’ to our attention.

By the way, I think the reason y’all despise On Eagles Wings is because hardly anyone can sing it beautifully…including my choir…so we never do!
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One of the best renditions of On Eagles Wings I ever heard was on solo acoustic guitar with a solo vocalist. I believe it was originally composed for guitar. Unfortunately they never announced the artist. I think of the song more as a devotional song than one suitable for the liturgy.
 
Frankly, I am appalled by the attitude of many of the posters here. Apparently, there is no such thing as a GOOD liturgist, and there was some declaration from Rome that I don’t recall ever seeing that says no music written in the last 200 years is “worthy”. I find it insulting and extremely narrow minded.

For the first argument, I find it to be a contemptible assertion. On another thread here, there is a poster who claims that we can’t believe the early Church Fathers position about women priests because after all, they were all MEN. Therefore, they MUST not be trustworthy. The similar idea that all of today’s musicians and liturgists are not trustworthy in their own vocations is insulting and offensive.

If the music you find being played at your church is not “good enough” then get up and DO something about it. Volunteer, get involved. Don’t just sit there and complain. And if you say it is too much trouble to fight it, then bluntly: shut up. Get trained in music, song leading, choir directing, and in liturgy and then you can be the one that other people complain about.

For the second argument, the only guidelines I have ever seen in ANY of the offical documents from Rome, or from the USCCB all say essentially the same thing: the music must be sacred. They have never defined what that meant to any degree of specificity such that it would limit the selection of music in the manner many of you are espousing. What you are arguing as documented fact, is actually personal taste. I doubt you will ever agree with an opposing view point, but stop stating it as though your opinion is officially endorsed by Rome itself. It isn’t. There are guidelines stating that organ music and chants should be given pride of place, but they go on to state (usually in the same sentence) that other options are fine, as long as they meet the “sacred” criteria. You are trying to use “proof texting” by leaving out those other choices.

I agree that some music is not suitable for church, but just because it isn’t in Latin and is newer than 400 years old, doesn’t automatically make it unworthy.
 
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mosher:
You should invest in one. It is very insigtful. At the seminary the liturgical “stuff” that was found in it was pretty much our touchstone for liturgical rectitude. The are fairly cheap but worth their weight in gold. The site is www.adoremus.org
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I would not suggest this bulletin as a resource, particularly for a parish musician.

As a parish musician, I can say that there are better resources out there than this bulletin.

If someone wants to private message me, I’d be happy to share my reasons, but doing so in the forum runs the risk of hijacking the thread into a conversation that would not be helpful.
 
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TAS2000:
Frankly, I am appalled by the attitude of many of the posters here. Apparently, there is no such thing as a GOOD liturgist, and there was some declaration from Rome that I don’t recall ever seeing that says no music written in the last 200 years is “worthy”. I find it insulting and extremely narrow minded.

For the first argument, I find it to be a contemptible assertion. On another thread here, there is a poster who claims that we can’t believe the early Church Fathers position about women priests because after all, they were all MEN. Therefore, they MUST not be trustworthy. The similar idea that all of today’s musicians and liturgists are not trustworthy in their own vocations is insulting and offensive.

If the music you find being played at your church is not “good enough” then get up and DO something about it. Volunteer, get involved. Don’t just sit there and complain. And if you say it is too much trouble to fight it, then bluntly: shut up. Get trained in music, song leading, choir directing, and in liturgy and then you can be the one that other people complain about.

For the second argument, the only guidelines I have ever seen in ANY of the offical documents from Rome, or from the USCCB all say essentially the same thing: the music must be sacred. They have never defined what that meant to any degree of specificity such that it would limit the selection of music in the manner many of you are espousing. What you are arguing as documented fact, is actually personal taste. I doubt you will ever agree with an opposing view point, but stop stating it as though your opinion is officially endorsed by Rome itself. It isn’t. There are guidelines stating that organ music and chants should be given pride of place, but they go on to state (usually in the same sentence) that other options are fine, as long as they meet the “sacred” criteria. You are trying to use “proof texting” by leaving out those other choices.

I agree that some music is not suitable for church, but just because it isn’t in Latin and is newer than 400 years old, doesn’t automatically make it unworthy.
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You just need to take the time to read the magisterial documents on Sacred Music. There is plenty of information on the issue.
 
The singer in our church ends with “City of God” at the end of almost every mass. She ends in an operatic tone when singing “has turned the night into DAAAAAAAAAAY!” I smiled when I heard a child say “She likes to end big.”
 
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mosher:
You just need to take the time to read the magisterial documents on Sacred Music. There is plenty of information on the issue.
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And none of it “bans” specific songs, as the list earlier did. I need no list to tell my which jives with Catholic theology and which is imprudent. I know what my priest teaches and our parish is firmly grounded in, and what is too squishy and could cause confusion. This is why guidelines are given, not approved lists.

Tom wineman, I agree with on Eagle’s Wings. I have finally got it to work on guitar, but only by changing the chords a little. It is one of the most unsingable songs there is, so I seldom use it. I only use it at all because it is the favorite of so many.
 
pnewton said:
{On Eagle’s Wings} is one of the most unsingable songs there is, so I seldom use it. I only use it at all because it is the favorite of so many.
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That is because of the hemiola caused when the voice part is in 4/4 time and the accompaniment is in 8/8 (3+3+2) in the verses.
 
You just need to take the time to read the magisterial documents on Sacred Music. There is plenty of information on the issue.
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Very nice general statement, with no backup, that implies that I haven’t done my homework. As I said, I have read all the official documents I can and they all support my position. Would you care to site an example of an official document that says anything to support the position that the “contemporary” music listed is NOT appropriate for mass?

My point is that much of the music may not be to an individual’s taste, but that doesn’t make it inappropriate. Many here will denigrate guitars as unfit for mass, but no official document has ever stated such. Until I see an official document to that effect, I will not refuse to let someone use their talents to try to praise the Lord. I WILL refuse to let them play songs by the Greatful Dead during mass. But just because something can be mis-used doesn’t mean it can’t be used in a good way.
 
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TAS2000:
Frankly, I am appalled by the attitude of many of the posters here. Apparently, there is no such thing as a GOOD liturgist, and there was some declaration from Rome that I don’t recall ever seeing that says no music written in the last 200 years is “worthy”. I find it insulting and extremely narrow minded.

For the first argument, I find it to be a contemptible assertion. On another thread here, there is a poster who claims that we can’t believe the early Church Fathers position about women priests because after all, they were all MEN. Therefore, they MUST not be trustworthy. The similar idea that all of today’s musicians and liturgists are not trustworthy in their own vocations is insulting and offensive.

If the music you find being played at your church is not “good enough” then get up and DO something about it. Volunteer, get involved. Don’t just sit there and complain. And if you say it is too much trouble to fight it, then bluntly: shut up. Get trained in music, song leading, choir directing, and in liturgy and then you can be the one that other people complain about.

For the second argument, the only guidelines I have ever seen in ANY of the offical documents from Rome, or from the USCCB all say essentially the same thing: the music must be sacred. They have never defined what that meant to any degree of specificity such that it would limit the selection of music in the manner many of you are espousing. What you are arguing as documented fact, is actually personal taste. I doubt you will ever agree with an opposing view point, but stop stating it as though your opinion is officially endorsed by Rome itself. It isn’t. There are guidelines stating that organ music and chants should be given pride of place, but they go on to state (usually in the same sentence) that other options are fine, as long as they meet the “sacred” criteria. You are trying to use “proof texting” by leaving out those other choices.

I agree that some music is not suitable for church, but just because it isn’t in Latin and is newer than 400 years old, doesn’t automatically make it unworthy.
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thanks, I could hardly read fast enough to post what you just did.thanks for typing for me!!!
 
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TAS2000:
Very nice general statement, with no backup, that implies that I haven’t done my homework. As I said, I have read all the official documents I can and they all support my position. Would you care to site an example of an official document that says anything to support the position that the “contemporary” music listed is NOT appropriate for mass?

My point is that much of the music may not be to an individual’s taste, but that doesn’t make it inappropriate. Many here will denigrate guitars as unfit for mass, but no official document has ever stated such. Until I see an official document to that effect, I will not refuse to let someone use their talents to try to praise the Lord. I WILL refuse to let them play songs by the Greatful Dead during mass. But just because something can be mis-used doesn’t mean it can’t be used in a good way.
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DITTO!!
 
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