Only Catholic marriages are valid?

[joandarc2008]

Thank you everyone for answering. But I am confused. I thought that the only valid marriage was one conducted by the “Catholic Church” according to the rules of the “Catholic Faith” and the authority of its priests. Otherwise what would be the point of trying to decide whether a marriage is valid or not? If a marriage isn’t conducted with the authority of a Catholic priest, then why should I consider that marriage valid?

According to the words of everyone that has posted it would seem that a Mormon marriage and even a Jedi marriage is valid. Is a marriage conducted according to the rules of Scientology a marriage? Is a state marriage really a marriage? I have never understood them as such. But of course, I am not sure, and this is why I have posted. According to you anyone can conduct a marriage. The question i now have is what is a “valid marriage”; what is it that makes them married as opposed to two people entertaining the illusion of being married.

It depends on the state of the two people being married. If you are asking about a specific situation you are in than we would need to know if you or your wife were baptized in the Catholic Church or another Church and where you were married - if you are asking for hypotheticals - they are two numerous to answer. What you need to know is that once you are baptized as a Catholic you have a duty to marry in the Catholic Church or your marriage will not be seen as valid unless you erceive dispensation from the bishop to marry outside the Church.

So could you please be more specific about why you are asking and what your situation is?

 

[Verbum]

Hi David,

In the case of Catholics who do not marry before the Church, there is no doubt that the marriage is invalid.as required by the Canon you quote. Can you think of a situation where there would be doubt?

Verbum

 

[Califman831]

Actually, in Latin Rite Catholicism, the minister of the Sacrament of Matrimony is the man and woman, who mutually confer it upon each other. The ordained guy (who may be a Deacon) only witnesses the Sacrament and pronounces the blessing of the Church upon the union.

If the priest is just a witness why are religious sisters and brothers not allowed to marry couples? Under what circumstances may a deacon perform the ceremony. Is this like the case were a layman may perform a baptism in dire circumstances and the one being baptized has no chance of being baptized by a priest?

catholicapologetics.info/thechurch/catechism/Holy7Sacraments-Matrimony.shtml

 

[joandarc2008]

If the priest is just a witness why are religious sisters and brothers not allowed to marry couples? Under what circumstances may a deacon perform the ceremony. Is this like the case were a layman may perform a baptism in dire circumstances and the one being baptized has no chance of being baptized by a priest?

catholicapologetics.info/thechurch/catechism/Holy7Sacraments-Matrimony.shtml

A deacon may always perform the Sacrament of Holy Matrimony - however, if you want a nuptial mass you will need a priest present to consecrate the Eucharist. Some Brothers can perform Matrimony if they also have Holy Orders but Brothers and Sisters are first consecrated as to their order as lay brothers and sisters and then Brothers may become deacons and priests in addition if they are candidates for that.

 

[1ke]

In the case of the baptized Catholic that is married by the JOP - those do still go to the Tribunal office in some diocese for a lack of form finding - it is a decree of nullity (after the divorce of course) based on lack of form. I know in the Archdiocese of Miami it takes about 3 weeks and $50. One of the main reasons that it is done is records keeping and to make sure that what is being presented by the couple wishing to be remarried is the truth.

It is record keeping, not a decree of nullity.

And, this is only in a case of a marriage and divorce followed by a desire to contract a new marriage.

If a couple marries outside the Church and is still married, they must convalidate that marriage before being readmitted to the Sacraments. IT IS NOT VALID until it is convalidated through new exchange of consent in the Catholic form or via radical sanation in some circumstances. This is a necessary requirement in order to resume the sacramental life.

 

[1ke]

Thank you everyone for answering. But I am confused. I thought that the only valid marriage was one conducted by the “Catholic Church” according to the rules of the “Catholic Faith” and the authority of its priests. Otherwise what would be the point of trying to decide whether a marriage is valid or not?

This is a true statement when one or both people are Catholics.

If a marriage isn’t conducted with the authority of a Catholic priest, then why should I consider that marriage valid?

Because the Church does.

You seem to be under the impression that the Catholic Church teaches that non-Catholics do not have valid marriages. This is NOT true.

The Catholic laws on marriage are divided into divine law and ecclesial (church law). Divine law applies to everyone. For example, marrying your sister, or your mother is a divine law impediment. Whether you are Catholic or not, such a marriage is not valid.

Other laws are merely ecclesial laws, meaning they bind only Catholics. The laws regarding the form off marriage (marrying in a Catholic Church with a priest and two witnesses) is an ecclesial law. Here is the canon regarding who is bound by ecclesial law:

Can. 11 Merely ecclesiastical laws bind those who have been baptized in the Catholic Church or received into it, possess the efficient use of reason, and, unless the law expressly provides otherwise, have completed seven years of age.

As you can see, it does not bind non-Catholics.

According to the words of everyone that has posted it would seem that a Mormon marriage and even a Jedi marriage is valid.

Yep.

Is a marriage conducted according to the rules of Scientology a marriage?

Yep.

Is a state marriage really a marriage?

Yep.

I have never understood them as such. But of course, I am not sure, and this is why I have posted.

Yes, you are mistaken in this belief.

According to you anyone can conduct a marriage.

Yep. If it is legal according to civil law, the couple is validly married provided there are no divine law impediments. This is true when neither party is a Catholic.

The question i now have is what is a “valid marriage”; what is it that makes them married as opposed to two people entertaining the illusion of being married.

The couple’s exchange of consent.

Can. 1057 §1. The consent of the parties, legitimately manifested between persons quali-fied by law, makes marriage; no human power is able to supply this consent.

 

[1ke]

If the priest is just a witness why are religious sisters and brothers not allowed to marry couples? Under what circumstances may a deacon perform the ceremony. Is this like the case were a layman may perform a baptism in dire circumstances and the one being baptized has no chance of being baptized by a priest?

See these canons in canon law. They outline the circumstances in which lay persons can assist at marriages;

vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P40.HTM

 

[1ke]

A deacon may always perform the Sacrament of Holy Matrimony -

Not exactly.

A deacon can perform marriages if he is delegated to do so by the Ordinary (the Bishop). I would say that most Bishops have delegated deacons to do so, at least here in the US. But they do not have the ability to witness marriages without this delegation.

Can. 1111 §1. As long as they hold office validly, the local ordinary and the pastor can delegate to priests and deacons the faculty, even a general one, of assisting at marriages within the limits of their territory.

§2. To be valid, the delegation of the faculty to assist at marriages must be given to specific persons expressly.

 

[MindOverMatter2]

Can. 1057 §1. The consent of the parties, legitimately manifested between persons quali-fied by law, makes marriage; no human power is able to supply this consent.

Okay. What if I am laying on a grass with my girlfriend, and I say to her, "do you take be to be your husband", and she says “yes”; is it now the case that I am married?

 

[1ke]

Okay. What if I am laying on a grass with my girlfriend, and I say to her, "do you take be to be your husband", and she says “yes”; is it now the case that I am married?

If you are a Catholic, no.

If you and she are non-Catholics in a place that recognizes this as a legal way to marry, yes. But even for civil validity this would likely require *witnesses *to the exchange of consent while lying in the grass.

In general, witnesses are required because without them the exchange of consent cannot be verified.

 

[Fox]

The Church presumes that ALL marriages are valid right, then why can’t a Catholic take holy communion then if married by justice of the peace? The marriage is valid so why deny communion? Seems like you are excommunicated to me.

 

[Fox]

Another thing too, why does a priest not give you absolution in the confessional if you aren’t married in the church when you are trying to remedy the situation with convalidation?

 

[1ke]

The Church presumes that ALL marriages are valid right,

No, it doesn’t.

then why can’t a Catholic take holy communion then if married by justice of the peace?

A Catholic who attempts marriage outside Catholic form without dispensation attempts marriage invalidly. The marriage is not valid and has no presumption of validity.

Therefore, a Catholic in this situation is in a state of serious sin.

The marriage is valid so why deny communion?

The marriage is not valid.

A person who is not in a state of grace cannot receive the Eucharist. A person in this situation can receive the Sacrament of Reconciliation if they abstain from marital relations until convalidation. Otherwise they are committing the sin of fornication.

Seems like you are excommunicated to me.

Invalid marriage is not a excommunicable offense. Nothing in canon law imposes a penalty of excommunication.

The situation can be remedied via convalidation.

 

[1ke]

Another thing too, why does a priest not give you absolution in the confessional if you aren’t married in the church when you are trying to remedy the situation with convalidation?

To receive absolution one must have a firm ammendment of purpose-- therefore one cannot intend to continue fornicating. If the person is contrite and intends to abstain until the convalidation there is no issue with the priest granting absolution.

 

[ignatius777]

When is a marriage valid? And if my wife dies, can I marry another women?

By “vaild” do you mean as defined by the church or the state? There are many conditions that contribute to a valid catholic marriage as it relates to the interested parties but those conditins are too numerous to mention in this space. However no marriage performed outside of the church building is a valid catholic marriage. There must be 2 witnesses and thats about it.

 

[Spirithound]

I thought that the only valid marriage was one conducted by the “Catholic Church” according to the rules of the “Catholic Faith” and the authority of its priests. Otherwise what would be the point of trying to decide whether a marriage is valid or not? If a marriage isn’t conducted with the authority of a Catholic priest, then why should I consider that marriage valid?

According to the words of everyone that has posted it would seem that and even a Jedi marriage is valid. I have never understood them as such. But of course, I am not sure, and this is why I have posted. According to you anyone can conduct a marriage. The question i now have is what is a “valid marriage”; what is it that makes them married as opposed to two people entertaining the illusion of being married.

A person must get married according to the rules of their own church, synagogue, mosque, temple, and/or governmental jurisdiction. A Catholic is bound to marry in the Catholic Church, according to Canon law. Non-Catholics are not bound to marry in the Catholic Church because the ministers of the sacrament are the couple themselves.

 

[Fox]

1ke,
Then why does the Church care in civil marriage cases when the civil marriage isn’t valid in the Church’s eyes in the first place? Why does the Church need to make an annulment in a civil marriage when the civil marriage ended in divorce even when the Church doesn’t recognise it anyways? They can’t have it both ways because they are putting out false or confusing messages to the people.

The person in question about the confession issue had already explained to the priest the situation and that they are trying to convalidate the marriage and to stop the fornication. He still didn’t give the person absolution.

 

[joandarc2008]

1ke,
Then why does the Church care in civil marriage cases when the civil marriage isn’t valid in the Church’s eyes in the first place? Why does the Church need to make an annulment in a civil marriage when the civil marriage ended in divorce even when the Church doesn’t recognise it anyways? They can’t have it both ways because they are putting out false or confusing messages to the people.

The person in question about the confession issue had already explained to the priest the situation and that they are trying to convalidate the marriage and to stop the fornication. He still didn’t give the person absolution.

1ke already answered this - it is not a declaration of nullity - it is a matter of record keeping.

Basically it is a double check to make sure there are no impediments for a remarriage.

 

[Fox]

The Church doesn’t need to worry about civil matters then. I’m sure the people are pretty competent in their jobs to make civil divorces complete. The Church is best suited to keep to ecclesiastical matters then.

 

[joandarc2008]

The Church doesn’t need to worry about civil matters then. I’m sure the people are pretty competent in their jobs to make civil divorces complete. The Church is best suited to keep to ecclesiastical matters then.

You misunderstand the record keeping is to return people to full Communion in order that may participate in the Sacramental life from which they have removed themselves through the disobedient act of being married outside of the Church without dispensation. By restoring full communion this means that this person is able to do things such as remarry, (if this is due to divorce or if the marriage convalidated obviously not), be a Godparent, be a Confirmation sponsor, be an RCIA sponsor,start formation in a lay order/oblate, etc. All of these things require that the person be in full communion with the Church.