Only Catholic marriages are valid?

  • Thread starter Thread starter MindOverMatter2
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Confession does that. Some people don’t want to bring up old wounds with ex spouses just to please the Church. It doesn’t benefit either person to do so.

But here is the question: You have two people married civilly, one a Catholic the other is not. The Catholic had their previous marriage annulled in the Church. the other spouse only had a civil divorce. They have two children already together. The spouse who is not Catholic doesn’t want to bring up the divorce with the ex spouse because it will bring up old wounds and believes the Church handles Church matters and courts handle civil matters. What is the Catholic spouse to do?
 
Fox said:
Confession does that. Some people don’t want to bring up old wounds with ex spouses just to please the Church. It doesn’t benefit either person to do so.

But here is the question: You have two people married civilly, one a Catholic the other is not. The Catholic had their previous marriage annulled in the Church. the other spouse only had a civil divorce. They have two children already together. The spouse who is not Catholic doesn’t want to bring up the divorce with the ex spouse because it will bring up old wounds and believes the Church handles Church matters and courts handle civil matters. What is the Catholic spouse to do?
Click to expand...
  1. Both a decree of nullity and a lack of form finding (which is the proper name for the situation you discuss - Catholic married outside of Church without dispensation) the spouse does need to be notified (I believe - I may be wrong in the lack of form finding)
  2. There really is no participation required in the lack of form finding - it is all paperwork
  3. I think you misunderstand these things all happen after divorce - it was deems the Catholic “free to date” as once a Catholic marries - marriage is for life - without a decree of nullity then even with a civil divorce the Catholic party is not free to date as they are still married in the eyes of the Church.
  4. In an anullment process lets say spouse C is Catholic and spouse d is non-denominational. spouse C would file for the decree of nullity. Spouse D has the option of responding or not responding. They do have to be informed and be given a chance to bring evidence in order to defend the validity of the marriage - but they do not have to. It is perfectly possible to get the decree of nullity without any (name removed by moderator)ut from Spouse D. It has no finding on matters of child custody, etc- it is strictly that the marriage was Sacramental or not.
I hope that helps.
 
In the previous marriage one spouse is Episco. and the other ex-spouse is atheist. They were divorced in civil.

The Catholic married in civil court to the Epsico since his annulement hadn’t come through from his previous marriage. The annullment has gone through for the Catholic and is free to marry in the Church and he wants convalidation now. The Episco dosn’t want to contact the atheist ex spouse at all about it. TThe Catholic and Episco love each other and have two children baptised Catholic. Can the convalidation happen for the sake of the Catholic and his Catholic chlidren that is in the relationship now since the Episco doesn’t have the same beliefs as the Catholic?
 
Fox said:
In the previous marriage one spouse is Episco. and the other ex-spouse is atheist. They were divorced in civil.

The Catholic married in civil court to the Epsico since his annulement hadn’t come through from his previous marriage. The annullment has gone through for the Catholic and is free to marry in the Church and he wants convalidation now. The Episco dosn’t want to contact the atheist ex spouse at all about it. TThe Catholic and Episco love each other and have two children baptised Catholic. Can the convalidation happen for the sake of the Catholic and his Catholic chlidren that is in the relationship now since the Episco doesn’t have the same beliefs as the Catholic?
Click to expand...
I understand what you are asking - I had to read it through a couple of times so I am going to name and let me see if I get this right.

Catholic women Rita marries Bill gets divorced and gets an anullment. She is free to marry.

Episcopalian (which we will shorten in a minute) Steve (now shortened) marries Vicky (Atheist) and gets divorced but has no anullment.

Rita and Steve marry in a courthouse and have children. Rita misses Eucharist and wants convalidation. Here are some things you need to know.
  1. As part of Rita’s faith Rita should have known that Steve not having a decree of nullity was never available for her to date never the less marry - I’m sorry it is the way that it is. Mt 5:31-32. Even when we divorce if that Sacrament is found to have been valid remarrying puts the person in a state of bigamy. Dating is adultery. That is why it is suggested that one gets goes through this process right after divorce or not date divorced from other faiths wihtout doing some serious discernment on the state of their past marriage.
  2. The decision to get married in the courthouse furthered the disobedience to the Church and Rita’s baptismal and confirmation promises. Each Catholic has a duty to marry in the Church unless given dispensation by the Bishop to avoid this very situation.
  3. Now, since we are in the situation Rita can be returned to Eucharist by doing two things - a) Sacrament of Penance b) Living as brother and sister until the convalidation
  4. Rita and Steve need to talk to the priest IMMEDIATELY to get this going - The diocese will contact Steve’s ex-wife - he just needs to supply the address- it is required that she be contacted but he does not have to do the contacting. Also if need be she does not need any address or contact information for Steve nor does she need to participate if she does not want to. Chances are if she isn’t Catholic and that much time has gone by she probably won’t.
  5. Good luck and God bless
  6. I think I covered everything if I missed anything here is a decent video breaking it down that is also pretty good on the why’s and wherefores of the anullment process:
Click Here for Video
 
Fox said:
Then why does the Church care in civil marriage cases when the civil marriage isn’t valid in the Church’s eyes in the first place? Why does the Church need to make an annulment in a civil marriage when the civil marriage ended in divorce even when the Church doesn’t recognise it anyways? They can’t have it both ways because they are putting out false or confusing messages to the people.
Click to expand...
Because on the surface, a courthouse wedding looks like a wedding. It needs to be made certain that (1) the person was Catholic at the time of the ceremony, and therefore (1b) they were not allowed to marry in a courthouse, and (2) that the civil marriage really is over. The Church will not marry two people who are not also free to marry by the civil law.
The person in question about the confession issue had already explained to the priest the situation and that they are trying to convalidate the marriage and to stop the fornication. He still didn’t give the person absolution.
Click to expand...
“trying to stop the fornication”. Do or do not; there is no try.
 
Joan,

1 and 2 points have been brought out in confession, well for Rita. Steve doesn’t believe in confession.
  1. Will the Church give the convalidation to Rita? Episco Steve doesn’t believe in annulments from the teachings of his faith. Rita still wil push for the convalidation and that is her heart’s intent. They do try to live like brother and sister but fall sometimes.
  2. Vicky is a very anti religion person and will not correspond to the Church even if contacted.
Sorry for all the questions, Steve and Rita are in a conundrum. 🙂
 
Fox said:
Joan,

1 and 2 points have been brought out in confession, well for Rita. Steve doesn’t believe in confession.
  1. Will the Church give the convalidation to Rita? Episco Steve doesn’t believe in annulments from the teachings of his faith. Rita still wil push for the convalidation and that is her heart’s intent. They do try to live like brother and sister but fall sometimes.
  2. Vicky is a very anti religion person and will not correspond to the Church even if contacted.
Sorry for all the questions, Steve and Rita are in a conundrum. 🙂
Click to expand...
Rita and Steve need to go see Rita’s priest.

Only Steve can apply for a decree of nullity from his prior marriages. Rita AND Steve would need to convalidate their marriage, meaning they would have to exchange consent in the Catholic form. Vicki is not required to participate in the decree of nullity proceedings, she must merely be given the opportunity to do so if she can be located.

This is a VERY complex situation, and any information given here is simply general guidelines taken from canon law. The details of the situation must be laid out for the priest.

If Steve is unbaptized, there may also be recourse to the Petrine Privilege, which is not a decree of nullity but rather a dissolution of a natural marriage bond in favor of Rita’s faith.
 
Fox said:
1ke,
Then why does the Church care in civil marriage cases when the civil marriage isn’t valid in the Church’s eyes in the first place? Why does the Church need to make an annulment in a civil marriage when the civil marriage ended in divorce even when the Church doesn’t recognise it anyways? They can’t have it both ways because they are putting out false or confusing messages to the people.

The person in question about the confession issue had already explained to the priest the situation and that they are trying to convalidate the marriage and to stop the fornication. He still didn’t give the person absolution.
Click to expand...
The church can not annul a marriage which is strictly civil. Something is missing from this discussion
 
1ke said:
Of course it can, and does so regularly.
Click to expand...
Correction: The Church does not annul a marriage. A marriage “is” or it “isn’t” based on the facts at the time of the “wedding”. If the Church examines that facts and determines whether the marriage was valid. If the marriage was valid, there can be no declaration of nullity.
 
davidv said:
Correction: The Church does not annul a marriage. A marriage “is” or it “isn’t” based on the facts at the time of the “wedding”.
Click to expand...
Of course. The proper term is declaration of nullity. But, of course in common conversation many people refer to it as an “annulment” as is the case here.
 
Fox said:
Joan,

1 and 2 points have been brought out in confession, well for Rita. Steve doesn’t believe in confession.
  1. Will the Church give the convalidation to Rita? Episco Steve doesn’t believe in annulments from the teachings of his faith. Rita still wil push for the convalidation and that is her heart’s intent. They do try to live like brother and sister but fall sometimes.
  2. Vicky is a very anti religion person and will not correspond to the Church even if contacted.
Sorry for all the questions, Steve and Rita are in a conundrum. 🙂
Click to expand...
  1. It does not matter if Vicky participates or not.
  2. Only Steve can apply for the decree of nullity as it is Steve’s marriage.
  3. Steve and Rita need to speak to the priest ASAP.
  4. Steve and Rita both need to be involved in convalidation because convalidation is a Sacrament of Matrimony in the Catholic Church. Right now Rita cannot marry Steve because as the Church sees it Steve is still married to Vicky and will be until he receives a decree of nullity.
This is the Biblical Reasoning: (Mt 5:31-32)
Code: 
It was also said, 'Whoever divorces his wife must give her a bill of divorce.'
But I say to you, whoever divorces his wife (unless the marriage is unlawful) causes her to commit adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.
Click to expand...
The Greek word that means unless the marriage is unlawful is often mistranslated to mean in case of adultery - I can’t remember it right now but it is on the video below - literally it means unless it is invalid or unlawful

Here is a decent video explaining the process as well and it is under 8 minutes

By the way in marriage we are all called to do things out of love that are very uncomfortable. Marriage is designed where the Bride loves the groom as the Church loves Christ - and the groom loves the bride as Christ loves the Church. Christ went through unbelievable torture and gave his life on the Cross for the forgiveness of sins for the people of the Church - how much pain is it really for Steve to file for a decree of nullity for his bride, Rita, when compared to this model.
 
curious myself about if i have a had a valid marriage. I married a catholic and I was raised a catholic. We were married in a civil ceremony. To add more info after many years he fell into alcoholism and drug abuse (he was also gay). I divorced him legally, but he also dropped off the face of the earth and I presume him dead (no one knows where he is). I know I should talk to a priest and will get around to that, however anyone know if I will be told I need an annulment or my chances of obtaining one if I do?
 
LoneRanger1960 said:
curious myself about if i have a had a valid marriage. I married a catholic and I was raised a catholic. We were married in a civil ceremony. To add more info after many years he fell into alcoholism and drug abuse (he was also gay). I divorced him legally, but he also dropped off the face of the earth and I presume him dead (no one knows where he is). I know I should talk to a priest and will get around to that, however anyone know if I will be told I need an annulment or my chances of obtaining one if I do?
Click to expand...
Since one or both of your were Catholic at the time, and married in a civil ceremony without the proper dispensation, your marriage was invalid. You do need to go to the marriage tribunal, however, for a formal pronouncement.
 
Thanks for the info. Might not need to go at all I guess if I can find if he is dead by now I suppose. More then likely he was. Last time I saw him he was still addicted and his liver was failing. Doctor already had told me that he would not qualify for a new liver…
 
LoneRanger1960 said:
Thanks for the info. Might not need to go at all I guess if I can find if he is dead by now I suppose. More then likely he was. Last time I saw him he was still addicted and his liver was failing. Doctor already had told me that he would not qualify for a new liver…
Click to expand...
eeps! Ok, when you said “dropped off the face of the earth” and “presumed dead”, I figured you’d have a rather hard time finding out! It is true that if he is dead, you do not need to consult the tribunal. Which would be less costly?

BTW, you’re welcome 🙂 I’m working on giving simple answers for simple questions; more complex answers for questions that are hiding other question 😉
Peace!
 
Not sure. He stole money off of someone about three years ago and just took off never to be seen by anyone again, and no one knows where he went. If they did know I expect if the addictions/Liver Disease/Hep C they would have found them. He angered a lot of former “friends” before he ran off (going on 4 years ago now).

I’m rather on the fence about being a Roman Catholic vs Eastern orthodox however. I have been going to Mass (not receiving communion) for awhile now. I guess I am in a unique position to explore the Orthodox faith where I live now (my neighbors are an orthodox monastery) and think I might need to end a forever draw and interest in their faith before fully “rejoining” fully in the Catholic faith.

My draw to the east has existed since early childhood, though I never fully explored that as an option. 🙂 Whatever I do I want to make sure that I go the right way. Nice to know that whatever I decide doesn’t hing on “being orthodox cause the Catholics won’t let me remarry” 🙂
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top