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Lapey
Guest
I’ve been away for a couple of days, it seems I haven’t missed much…lol
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Lapey
Guest
Truthmaker -
“So if I twist the Word, isn’t it your duty as a child of God to correct me?”
Lapey –
Me and my brothers and sisters have repeatedly done this and to no avail…you are much smarter than 2000 years of Scripture writers, scholars and theologians.
Truthmaker -
“That is exactly what I am talking about. It is not fair that I use scripture to support my claim and I give explanations when needed. (i don’t respond to ignorance, it bothers me)”
Lapey –
Please remove the plank in your eye before you point out the splinter in mine…recognize that?
Truthmaker -
“You give scripture to “prove” me wrong, yet you won’t explain it. Revelation is a great book in the Bible, you used it against me, explain it.”
Lapey –
You come here with one purpose in mind, and that’s to refute anything Catholic. You have the audacity to make it sound like I am the aggressor? Wow…just wow!
Truthmaker -
“Let’s keep this conversation scripture based and keep personal things out because that’s not what it is about, correct?”
Lapey –
Once you come to the truth of scripture you will realize that the Word of God is not only scripture; the Word is also contained in the Tradition of God held true in His Church!
Truthmaker -
“Also, I didn’t change the topic, your catholic brothers and sisters did”
Lapey –
We only follow a thread, not many stick to the intended topic completely. You are the one who runs when cornered.
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Lapey
Guest
You are the agresser, not us. We are not going to a (insert denomination here) board and contradicting your tradition. You come to a Catholic site repeatedly only to throw scripture at us and His Church as a spear thrown at an enemy. I am not your enemy I am your brother!
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Lapey
Guest
Yes you can!!! That’s the mighty God you put binding chains upon! This God, Jesus can do anything and scripture backs this up. If you believe God cannot do this, make intersessors available, please provide scripture in context to prove this wrong.
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Lapey
Guest
Almost every time I post to answer one of your attack threads I post scripture. You refute the meaning and bring it down to a fundamentalist level which can and does distort the truth.
You cannot understand scripture completely on your own; the Spirit doesn’t work that way. If this were true I could hold my bible up to my head and pray to the Holy Spirit and all the knowledge would flow over to my brain and that would be all I needed. That is not so. You can memorize every book chapter and verse but if you do not work towards learning what the truth is you will just be another denomination spewing what you come to spew here. Sad but true, you have no idea how much the catholic church, little “c”, loses because of fundamentalism. Playing with fire will get you burnt, this I can promise.
A conscience must be formed properly to see the absolute truth. Relative truth has no place in religion. Truth is always truth, no matter how much your fundamentalist views skew the truth. You cannot change what has been taught as truth since the death and resurrection of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
Many have tried to “prove” the Catholic Church wrong, only to convert to the Church when the truth becomes apparent.
This is only one example, deaconalexcjones.com/home/
Check out his testimony, I think you will find it interesting.
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Lapey
Guest
This profits me and you much! Only problem is you ignore the profit. The Holy Spirit guides the Church in the teachings, not individuals. The Holy Spirit guides us in our lives in the gifts He provides. There are other gifts, hierarchal gifts of the Spirit that guide the Church in faith and morals.
If your way of thinking was correct, and Jesus intended for each of us to have our own fundamental view of scripture, we wouldn’t see tens of thousands of splinter groups all with their own version of the “truth” many times in direct disagreement with another; many claiming to rely on sola scriptora. What we have done to the Church built on Peter by Jesus Christ is a shame.
Although we know from scripture it will prevail against the gates of hell!
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Lapey
Guest
We do not use scripture against each other, don’t you see the problem here?
Scripture is not a weapon to use against brothers or sisters, it is sacred. Now it is a “double edged sword” in society because so many choose to ignore the Gospel. But to use it against someone who has accepted the Gospel of Jesus Christ is wrong. That is why I mentioned the Matthew verse of wolves in sheep’s clothing. Many follow a different Gospel that the Apostles taught, the Gospel still taught within the Catholic Church and many other denoms. But sadly many do not.
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Lapey
Guest
God, in Father, Son and Holy Spirit are in authority over me and His Church!
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wmscott
Guest
This because “SOME” are so limited in their faith and zoned in on anti-Catholic falsehoods that they do not realize that when we die we are not dead we are alive in Christ, we are part of the vine now. We are not deaf to the world or to our Christian brothers and sisters. But to admit that we are alive in Christ and part of the vine, able to hear the prayers of the living, is to admit that prayers to God via the Blessed Mother and the Saints is legitimate. Oh may God, you mean the Catholics are right
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Martlut
Guest
Yes Catholics Believe this Jesus is the only mediator between man and God thats one of the things are faith is Based on .(1 Tim. 2:5), but this in no way means we cannot or should not ask our fellow Christians to pray with us and for us (1 Tim. 2:1–4). In particular, we should ask the intercession of those Christians in heaven, who have already had their sanctification completed, for “[t]he prayer of a righteous man has great power in its effects” (Jas. 5:16).
“For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God–not because of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them” (Ephesians 2:8-10)
“For by grace you have been saved through faith; and this is not your own doing, it is the gift of God–not because of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them” (Ephesians 2:8-10)
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jlhargus
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Richard_Kastner
Guest
Adelore, what do you think these verses mean
In the Name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost,
Dear Mother Mary and all the Saints in Heaven, I ask that you will go with me in Prayer and ask Our Lord Jesus to touch Truthseekers heart, so he is able to understand with love from the Holy Spirit more fully the Scriputres, that they are not to be taken verse by verse or verse against verse, but truely that he’ll understand the clear message of the Word as a whole.
Dear Heavenly Father, Our Brother Truthseeker has a good heart and Father he is sometimes confused as how to relate to the Scriptures. Father Truthseeker is having trouble understanding many of the Truths of your word, sometimes Father he seems a bit confused when he takes Verse by Verse and doesn’t understand that it’s not by each singel verse that we stand on, but by your Word, the Bible as a whole.
Father I pray along with Mother Mary, the Saints and anyone else here who may join me in prayer to send the Holy Spirit to Truthseeker, that he may have his eyes opened to understand your Word to us your Children in a better way, Father I pray that Truthseeker will read complete chapters and not pick your Wonderful Words apart verse by verse, May the Holy Spirit open a whole new world to him as he truely leans to read your message to us, your children, with Truth and Understanding.
Father my heart goes out to Truthseeker as he’s missing so much in your word by him thinking we can take a verse here and there, to try to make a “stand” of sorts on it. Father may you send the Holy Spirit to Truthseeker to guide him to understand, your Word was not written in single verses, but indeed as a continued writing by each Author of each book.
Father I ask along with Mother Mary, the Saints, My Brother’s and Sister’s who may join me in this prayer to touch Truthseekers heart, open his eyes to the real way your Word should be read and understood. May you stop the battle that his spirit and heart is going through with so many misunderstanding of your Word.
I Pray in Jesus Name…
In the Name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost,
Amen.
Isaiah 28:9Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
Heb.5:12For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
13For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
14But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
Heb28:10For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
11For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.
12To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.
13But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.
14Wherefore hear the word of the LORD, ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem.
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jlhargus
Guest
[1Jn 2:1 My little children these thing write I to you that you sin not. And **if any man sin WE HAVE AN ADVOCATE with the Father Jesus Christ the righteous 2 And **HE is THE PROPITIATION FOR OUR SINS and not for our’s only but also for the sins of the whole world.]
Christ is not just sitting on a throne in heaven and watching events, He is our High Priest who has entered the Holy of Holies with his propitiating, atoning blood. He ever lives to MEDIATE and intercede for us. He does this by making present and showing forth, to the Father, his once for all sacrifice on the cross. The sacrifice of the mass is a propitiation as it is the same once for all sacrifice of the cross made present to us. There is no re-sacrifice it is the same, once done, made present to us a memorial sacrifice, a living memorial to God our Father and also to us, [Ex 25:30 …you shall set the bread of the Presence on the table before me always] In the old Temple Holy of Holies the bread of the Presence is placed on a table before the Presence of God, so God can see it always. The Temple bread of the Presence is an example and shadow of Christ and his real Presence in the bread of life, who will stand in the midst of the throne of God our Father as a Lamb slain, showing forth the propitiatory sacrifice of the cross, before the Father always. [Rv 5:6 And I beheld… lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts and in the midst of the elders stood a Lamb as it had been slain …]
This is how Christ is our ONE UNIQUE MEDIATOR, we can all pray for others, mediating, but we cannot make atonment for others only Christ’s unique mediatorship can make atonement.
Our slain sacrificed Passover Lamb with his propitiatory, atoning, blood ever living and present in the true Holy of Holies in the midst of the throne before God the Father. The man Jesus is our MEDIATOR, our High Priest in the order of Melchisedec, mediating ever showing forth and making present his once for all sacrifice to the Father and us at mass.
[Malachi 1:11 For from the rising to going down of the sun my name shall be great among the Gentiles, in everyplace incense shall be offered…and a pure offering will be made, Rv 5:6 And I beheld in the midst of the throne …stood a Lamb as it had been slain…Hb 7: 17 …Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec. … Hb 7:24 … this man… continues ever…an unchangeable priesthood 25 Wherefore he is able also to save … seeing he ever lives to make intercession for them. …Hb 8:1…We have such an high priest…set on the right hand of Majesty… 2 A minister of the sanctuary and of the true tabernacle …3 … every high priest is ordained to offer gifts and sacrifices wherefore it is of necessity that this man have somewhat also TO OFFER 4 …priests that offer gifts according to the law 5 …serve to the example and shadow of heavenly things … … 6 But now has he obtained a more excellent ministry… MEDIATOR OF a better COVENANT.]
The scriptures tell us we have access to ALL those in heaven, [Hb12:22 But YE ARE COME UNTO MOUNT SION, and unto THE CITY OF THE LIVING GOD, the HEAVENLY JERUSALEM, and TO an innumerable company of ANGELS, 23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and TO GOD the Judge of all, and TO the SPIRITS OF JUST MEN MADE PERFECT, 24 And TO JESUS THE MEDIATOR OF THE NEW COVENANT, and TO THE BLOOD of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.]
As Catholics we come TO Heavenly Jerusalem, TO angels, TO God, TO spirits of just men, TO Jesus TO the blood. Through the one mediatorship of Jesus, united in worship, individual prayer and hopfully when we die. The veil of the temple has been removed we have access to the Holy of Holies and ALL who are there. Do you know of another way TO come to Jesus and those in the Heavenly Jerusalem?
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jlhargus
Guest
JL: [Eccl 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: BUT THE DEAD KNOW NOT ANYTHING, **NEITHER HAVE THEY any more A REWARD; for the MEMORY OF THEM IS FORGOTTEN 6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; NEITHER have they ANY more a PORTION FOR EVER in any thing that is done UNDER THE SUN.]
So if Eccl 9:5 is speaking of eternal things AFTER death instead of things UNDER THE SUN (on earth). It would be saying THEY HAVE NO MORE REWARD after death and God will have no memory of THEM. That would mean NO RESURRECTION, no more reward AND no living on the earth after the RESURRECTION, since they neither, anymore, have a portion forever under the sun (on earth).
Yet we know, by the LIGHT of the world, Jesus Christ, after bodily death the soul does KNOW read Lk16:19-31 Lazarus and the rich man. Christ tells us when the body dies the soul does not die, [Mt10:28 And fear not them which KILL THE BODY, but are NOT ABLE TO KILL THE SOUL: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.] Only God has judgement and disposition of the soul. Only God is able to destroy BOTH body AND soul, of the unjust, in Gehenna, which is the lake of fire, were BOTH body AND soul are thrown after the last judgement. Destroy does not mean ANNIHILATION. Destroyed; as sin or substance abuse can literally destroy one’s life and body, without the person being bodily dead and certainly not annihilated, it is existence only no real life or purpose. I can destroy a glass by breaking it, yet it is not out of existence. It is of no more use, it can no longer serve the purpose for which it was created.
In Lk16:19-31 Lazarus and the rich man, Christ tells us of the souls of two bodily dead men Lazarus comforted in the chamber of Abraham’s Bosom and the rich man in a chamber of torment. The souls of the dead, both just and unjust, before Christ’s ascension went to one of the chambers of Sheol=Hebrew, Hades=Greek, Hell=English, Abraham’s Bosom or paradise a place of comfort, for the just souls, where the good thief on the cross went THAT DAY, the chamber of torment for unjust souls. We also know there IS remembrance by God of the dead and more REWARD, THE RESSURRECTION, as Christ our LIGHT has irrefutably revealed. CCC 631-637,1021.
Our Lord, opened heaven for the just spirits when he descended to Hell, and preached to them,1Pt3:18 that he might bring us to God, 1Pt3:18-19 & 1Pt4:6, CCC 634. When he ascended, he led a host of captives, the great cloud of witnesses Hb11:1-12-1, [Acts1:9 After he said this, he was taken up before their very eyes, and a cloud hid him from their sight.] Christ took the just spirits, disembodied, souls, in Sheol=Hades=Hell into heaven, now made perfect by the blood of Christ, that cleanses and takes away sin [Eph 4:8 Wherefore he saith, WHEN HE ASCENDED up on high, HE LED CAPTIVITY CAPTIVE, and gave gifts unto men. [Eccl12:7 Then shall THE DUST RETURN TO THE EARTH as it was: and THE SPIRIT SHALL RETURN UNTO GOD WHO GAVE IT.] The body=dust returns to the earth and the spirit=soul goes back to God who gave it, for immediate personal judgement and then to it’s place.
[Hb9:27 And as it is appointed unto men ONCE to die, but AFTER this the judgment:] After the ascension we see in Hb9:23, the spirits of just men made perfect, with our Lord in heaven. The evil spirits are still in Hell, the chamber of torment until the resurrection. [Hb12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, THE HEAVENLY JERUSLEM, and to an innumerable company of angels, 23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and **TO GOD THE JUDGE of all, AND to THE SPIRITS OF JUST MEN MADE PERFECT,]
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Lapey
Guest
Here is another of your hit and run threads.
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jlhargus
Guest
JL: I think Truth Seeker belongs to one of the many split offs of the Hubert Armstrong World Wide Church of God. When Armstrong died the new leadership brought the WWC of God back to a trinitarian faith along with other doctrinal changes to a more orthodox Protestant beleif. There were many splits from there into many small groups all holding Hubert Armstrong’s original teachings, they consider him a prophet.
I will take a guess and say she belongs to the Philidelphia Church of God. If not mistaken this group believes Christ is God and the Father is God. The Holy Spirit is a force, I don’t know if they believe there are two Gods or one God in two person. I would guess they hold two Gods one mighty and one almighty similar to JWs.
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coolduude
Guest
Ok everyone! I got this all figured out! But first: I apologize if this link was already brought up.
I started a thread literally called ‘One Mediator Question’
If you honestly are seeking the Truth, TruthSeeker, have an open mind to all things, even the other side.
Here is my link:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=416687
Now take the time and read all of it. All of it.
Then tell me what you think.
I started a thread literally called ‘One Mediator Question’
If you honestly are seeking the Truth, TruthSeeker, have an open mind to all things, even the other side.
Here is my link:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=416687
Now take the time and read all of it. All of it.
Then tell me what you think.
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Bill_Pick
Guest
“One mediator”… Christ is the one and only mediator of redemption, who gave himself, as the apostle writes in the following verse.
6 Who gave himself a redemption for all, a testimony in due times. 7 Whereunto I am appointed a preacher and an apostle, (I say the truth, I lie not,) a doctor of the Gentiles in faith and truth. 8 I will therefore that men pray in every place, lifting up pure hands, without anger and contention. 9 In like manner women also in decent apparel: adorning themselves with modesty and sobriety, not with plaited hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly attire, 10 But as it becometh women professing godliness, with good works.
6 “a redemption for all”… He is also the only mediator, who stands in need of no other to recommend his petitions to the Father. But this is not against our seeking the prayers and intercession, as well of the faithful upon earth, as of the saints and angels in heaven, for obtaining mercy, grace, and salvation, through Jesus Christ. As St. Paul himself often desired the help of the prayers of the faithful, without any injury to the mediatorship of Jesus Christ.
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Truth_Seeker123
Guest
I never said that it was anything wrong with praying for someone else. I pray for people all the time whether they ask or not. But I pray directly to Jesus so that He can intercede. What I was asking is why do you ask, lets say, a saint who you say is in Heaven, to pray to Jesus for you, when you can do it yourself. Now if that is what you have chosen to do then I have no complaint against it, but who are these saints? Did they die? If so, where are they and how did they get there?
Yes, people have asked me to pray for them, but once again, I pray for them to Jesus. I don’t pray for them to another saint so that they can pray to Jesus for me.
If you don’t pray to Jesus, how do you build a good relationship with Him? You talk to Him, not ask someone (a saint who has died) to talk to Him for you.
Once again, I agree that praying for people and people praying for me, to Jesus is fine. But not praying to someone who has died to pray for you.
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Prodigal_Son1
Guest
Do you believe Jesus Christ is God, is the Son of God, the Son of Man, and the Second Person of the Trinity?
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