only one correct religion with the truth?

[openmind77]

in what way are the life and teachings of Jesus Christ incomplete?

Do you understand God completely? Is the Mystery of the Trinity clear to you? Wouldn’t be nice to have someone sent by God, explain it better?

And what about any errors in our understanding right now? Do you really believe that the Church has everything right? Would the Pope have to arrange a synod in October if everything the Church believes was just perfect? Wouldn’t it be better if the Christ himself came and clarified a few things?

But the process will not stop when the Christ returns, it will continue. Since it happens at 1000/2000 year intervals, people always believe that Last One (in our case Jesus; in the Bahai case, Bahaualah) was the final/ultimate One.

 

[Matthew_Light]

I believe there is essentially only one religion, the religion of God / Ultimate Reality, manifesting itself in different forms and ways based on the cultures and times it was revealed to Humanity.

There are a few man-made and questionable religions (which I won’t name) but I believe that Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism, Zoroastrianism, various Native American beliefs, Islam, the Baha’i Faith and many others were inspired by God / Ultimate Reality and created through the power of His Will.

And that in this Day when mountains have been flattened, and seas dried up (via air travel), I believe it is God’s will that all His children will stop hating and fearing one another, will see His face in one another’s face, that we will put an end to war, and ensure economic and educational opportunity for every human being on the planet.

God has commanded all of us through His Son Jesus Christ to love one another, treat one another with kindness, justice, and forgiveness, to know that every human being is our brother or sister and to be treated as part of God’s family. This is the day when it is time for this most great commandment to be realized.

 

[eddie_too]

your determination of the completeness of Jesus Christ’s life teachings is determined by whether all of mankind, as a result of Christ’s teachings, understand reality perfectly?

yet, you then assert mankind will NEVER understand reality perfedtly?

you see no problem with asserting two diametrically opposed standards as true?

 

[openmind77]

your determination of the completeness of Jesus Christ’s life teachings is determined by whether all of mankind, as a result of Christ’s teachings, understand reality perfectly?

yet, you then assert mankind will NEVER understand reality perfedtly?

you see no problem with asserting two diametrically opposed standards as true?

Like I said it is just like Science. We can never hope to understand the physical Universe totally. But we have to keep investigating.

BTW, I am not just saying some people do not understand God and the Universe completely, I am saying no one, not a single human being does. We need teachers sent by God to continue coming to teach us more.

 

[eddie_too]

just out of curiosity, what theological questions do you think Jesus refused or forgot to answer?

please be specific. the only theological question that remains unanswered for me is what will be my final judgment before God?

 

[Matthew_Light]

(in our case Jesus; in the Bahai case, Bahaualah) was the final/ultimate One.

Christ said He would return “in the glory of the Father”, and Baha’u’llah stated more clearly that the chain of progressive Manifestations would never end and would continue after him, but no sooner than 1,000 years from his own Manifestation.

 

[Bahaitruth]

This is assumption that I have an issue with. If the next Manifestation comes and contradicts something that Bahaullah has declared (reincarnation was an example that I gave), then what are the Bahai going to do? Change Bahaullah into a ‘shadow’ ?

Another interesting question… I think just as Judaism, Christianity, and Islam consider their religions to be in one way or another “final”, the Bahai writings suggest the same thing though in a different way (this shadow concept). There are four possible explanations perhaps:

1. The next Manifestation equivalent to Bahaullah, or one under whom Bahaullah Himself will be a shadow, will appear in 500,000 years not 1000 years. In this case the Kitab-I-Aqdas lasts that long. Whoever appears in 1000 years will be equal to a Jesus (or a Son)
2. The Next Manifestation in 1000 years will supersede Baha’u’llah’s teachings and laws even though He will still derive His revelation FROM Bahaullah.
3. The next Manifestation will declare that the Day of Resurrection is cyclical and Bahaullah is under His Shadow not the other way around.
4. Individual people will reach such exalted levels of purity in the future that they will in effect be Manifestations as we know them today, and people will simultaneously be recipients of Revelations like you and me. We will all worship God as Manifestations worship God and show love and respect to each other. In this sense Bahaullah is Supreme Manifestation indefinitely.

 

[eddie_too]

what more is there to learn?

this is what i do not understand about your position.

is there any way you could express this concept that you are articulating, as i understand the concept it is that there is more for mankind to learn about its relationship with its Creator?

i do not think that is true, but maybe that is not what you are saying?

i totally agree that individuals possess differing levels of knowledge and understanding about their relationship with their Creator, but i attribute that to the imperfections of the individuals and not to the teachings of Christ.

my position is that anyone who gives themselves completely to Christ will grow in knowledge and understanding of their relationship with their Creator; and, that there is no limit to the knowledge and understanding that they will acquire.

all that is needed to understand reality perfectly has been given to mankind through the life, death and Resurrection of Jesus Christ.

just because you or i do not posses that fullness of understanding is not a reflection on the fullness of Christ’s teachings.

 

[openmind77]

what more is there to learn?

this is what i do not understand about your position.

is there any way you could express this concept that you are articulating, as i understand the concept it is that there is more for mankind to learn about its relationship with its Creator?

i do not think that is true, but maybe that is not what you are saying?

i totally agree that individuals possess differing levels of knowledge and understanding about their relationship with their Creator, but i attribute that to the imperfections of the individuals and not to the teachings of Christ.

my position is that anyone who gives themselves completely to Christ will grow in knowledge and understanding of their relationship with their Creator; and, that there is no limit to the knowledge and understanding that they will acquire.

all that is needed to understand reality perfectly has been given to mankind through the life, death and Resurrection of Jesus Christ.

just because you or i do not posses that fullness of understanding is not a reflection on the fullness of Christ’s teachings.

Actually you are the first person I have met, who believes that they completely understand the nature of God and our relationship to Him.

We have not even spoken of other areas in which our knowledge is incomplete - the nature of the afterlife, the nature of the soul, how will the Universe end etc.

There are many people who have given themselves to Christ (saints like Teresa of Avila) - they have written books about their experiences, but even those are not enough to fully answer the questions above.

 

[eddie_too]

"Actually you are the first person I have met, who believes that they completely understand the nature of God and our relationship to Him.

We have not even spoken of other areas in which our knowledge is incomplete - the nature of the afterlife, the nature of the soul, how will the Universe end etc."

i did not say i understand completely. i said Jesus understands completely; and, as a consequences as provided us with the perfect teaching to enable us to understand to the level that we are willing to put the time and effort in to understanding.

you knowledge and understanding of what Jesus gave mankind is extremely shallow. it has no relationship to theological faith in Jesus Christ. it would be pointless to introduce you to the depth of the understanding that originates with theological faith, because just as a infant cannot walk until he grows and develops, a neophyte (much less someone with no theologocial faith) in the faith cannot understand at the same level or depth as one more mature in the faith.

in your case, where you have no theological faith in Jesus Christ as the Alpha and the Omega, whatever i might try to explain to you about what Jesus gave mankind will remain incomprehensible.

without theological faith, every encounter with Jesus Christ begins with a rejection. rejection is not a platform for understanding.

no matter how much one desires to know and understand, until one accepts that the fullness of truth is available to him or her only through Jesus Christy, knowledge and understanding is limited to one’s natural abilities.

those with faith, on the other hand, have the advantage of supernatural grace that originates in them through their faith.

everyone who studies religion and theology and history and nature but do so without faith in Jesus Christ as the Alpha and the Omega can only study through a natural means.

this is part of the reality that Jesus brought to us. i cannot change it. no one can change it.

if you truly desire knowledge and understanding, my recommendation is to daily ask your Creator for faith in Jesus Christ.

 

[openmind77]

"Actually you are the first person I have met, who believes that they completely understand the nature of God and our relationship to Him.

We have not even spoken of other areas in which our knowledge is incomplete - the nature of the afterlife, the nature of the soul, how will the Universe end etc."

i did not say i understand completely. i said Jesus understands completely; and, as a consequences as provided us with the perfect teaching to enable us to understand to the level that we are willing to put the time and effort in to understanding.

you knowledge and understanding of what Jesus gave mankind is extremely shallow. it has no relationship to theological faith in Jesus Christ. it would be pointless to introduce you to the depth of the understanding that originates with theological faith, because just as a infant cannot walk until he grows and develops, a neophyte (much less someone with no theologocial faith) in the faith cannot understand at the same level or depth as one more mature in the faith.

in your case, where you have no theological faith in Jesus Christ as the Alpha and the Omega, whatever i might try to explain to you about what Jesus gave mankind will remain incomprehensible.

without theological faith, every encounter with Jesus Christ begins with a rejection. rejection is not a platform for understanding.

no matter how much one desires to know and understand, until one accepts that the fullness of truth is available to him or her only through Jesus Christy, knowledge and understanding is limited to one’s natural abilities.

those with faith, on the other hand, have the advantage of supernatural grace that originates in them through their faith.

everyone who studies religion and theology and history and nature but do so without faith in Jesus Christ as the Alpha and the Omega can only study through a natural means.

this is part of the reality that Jesus brought to us. i cannot change it. no one can change it.

if you truly desire knowledge and understanding, my recommendation is to daily ask your Creator for faith in Jesus Christ.

I did not say that the Christ does not understand the nature of reality. However, he could only give those teachings that his followers of 2000 years ago could accept and understand. There are definitely things which he did not go into because humanity was not ready for them. When he returns, he will continue to expand on his previous teachings.

If you think that all knowledge of God can be acquired merely through faith or perseverance then there would be many enlightened people around who would be able to answer us all the questions we have (about the Trinity, hell, heaven, purgatory, resurrection etc). There are no such persons who understand these things completely.

The Christ will help us along the way of understanding when he returns, but due to human limitations we will still need more teachers in the future.

 

[eddie_too]

"If you think that all knowledge of God can be acquired merely through faith or perseverance then there would be many enlightened people around who would be able to answer us all the questions we have (about the Trinity, hell, heaven, purgatory, resurrection etc). There are no such persons who understand these things completely.

The Christ will help us along the way of understanding when he returns, but due to human limitations we will still need more teachers in the future."

faith is the first step on the journey to perfect union with our Creator. perfect union with our Creator is as much knowledge and understanding as a human soul can obtain. also, it was not my intent to limit spiritual growth solely to the desire of the person seeking it. it also takes time. i thought that was implied if not explicit in my previous post. also, it takes grace and grace is a gift. grace is made readily available to believers through Christ via His Church. so, time, effort, grace are all necessary for growing in knowledge and understanding.

as for your second paragraph, Christ made sure we would have the necessary teachers for each of His believers to grow in (but not limite to) knowledge and understanding and grace. those teachers are the leaders of His Church who have dedicated their lives to growing in knowledge and understanding of the reality revealed through Christ.

 

[openmind77]

"If you think that all knowledge of God can be acquired merely through faith or perseverance then there would be many enlightened people around who would be able to answer us all the questions we have (about the Trinity, hell, heaven, purgatory, resurrection etc). There are no such persons who understand these things completely.

The Christ will help us along the way of understanding when he returns, but due to human limitations we will still need more teachers in the future."

faith is the first step on the journey to perfect union with our Creator. perfect union with our Creator is as much knowledge and understanding as a human soul can obtain. also, it was not my intent to limit spiritual growth solely to the desire of the person seeking it. it also takes time. i thought that was implied if not explicit in my previous post. also, it takes grace and grace is a gift. grace is made readily available to believers through Christ via His Church. so, time, effort, grace are all necessary for growing in knowledge and understanding.

as for your second paragraph, Christ made sure we would have the necessary teachers for each of His believers to grow in (but not limite to) knowledge and understanding and grace. those teachers are the leaders of His Church who have dedicated their lives to growing in knowledge and understanding of the reality revealed through Christ.

If so many knowledgeable teachers are available, why did it take so long for the Church to acknowledge that the Earth is round and revolves around the Sun? Don’t you think the Christ knew that? But if he had mentioned it to his followers then, most people would have thought he was crazy.

There are questions right now which are equally controversial - like is there life on other planets? Is Jesus also the Son of ET or just the Son of Man? Can you find answers to these questions using your faith? Are there people who can definitively tell us? Science may someday have the answer (probably after we are all dead), but the Christ may actually tell when he returns (or he may talk about other things - like the differences in opinion to be discussed in October).

PS: You may want to investigate the usage of the Quote button

 

[billt9]

Jesus said “I am the truth.” So there is only one truth, that of Jesus Christ. Any religion that does not follow Jesus Christ is not the truth, not even in part, no matter how politically incorrect that may be contemporary culture.

Now different Christian faiths have different beliefs about some things.All I can say is that it is not my place to judge who are “true” Christians. But the Bible teaches us unequivocally that there is only one truth and one way.

 

[eddie_too]

“If so many knowledgeable teachers are available, why did it take so long for the Church to acknowledge that the Earth is round and revolves around the Sun? Don’t you think the Christ knew that? But he has mentioned it to his followers then, most people would have thought he was crazy.”

it is true that knowledge of the earth’s spherical nature was not (to the best of my knowledge, i am open to correction on this point) documented in the new testament. that does not mean it was not discussed by the Lord.

perhaps you could give me a citation supporting your belief that the RCC taught as official doctrine that the earth was flat. i am unaware of where that was an official doctrinal teaching of the RCC. i am quite sure that it was never a “de fide” teaching of the RCC.

as for life on other planets, i do not understand how this is relevant to understanding the fullness of mankind’s relationship with God. i have never believed that Jesus needed to or desired to address every aspect of reality. it would have been pointless since no one else could ever possess that knowledge completely anyway. for example, Jesus certainly knew the principles of aerodynamics, but those principles are not essential to a human being’s salvation or mankind’s redemption.

as for the Lord’s origins, they are human through His mother and Divine (and by Divine i do not mean extra-terrestrial in the sense of from an other sentient creature) through His Father. that is what the RCC teaches and why anyone would question that is puzzling to me.

the RCC teaches that Jesus is the fullness of God’s revelation. i am in complete agreement with that and have never heard a good reason or good evidence for believing anything else.

i know you believe that God is going to reveal to mankind something that Jesus did not know or reveal to the apostles. i disagree with that.

Jesus knew everything. He chose to provide us with His understanding to the extent His apostles were capable of grasping it (His understanding) as well as revealing things the apostles did not fully grasp.

could there be something in His revelation that the RCC will provide through its process of doctrinal development? perhaps, in a manner similar to the development of the doctrine of the Incarnation, or the Immaculate Conception, or the Trinity, or a large number of doctrinal understanding.

however, the point remains that Jesus possessed perfect knowledge of creation, of reality, of the Godhead, of everything. there will be no new revelations. there will continue to be a development of our understanding of the significance of the Lord’s revelations within the body of believers. no development of the revelations can occur outside of the body of believers and most directly outside of the RCC.

all of this development in understanding is spurred by Jesus and His Incarnation, life, death and Resurrection.

anyone outside the community of theological/suprnatural faith has not and will not advance our understanding of the Lord, the Alpha and Omega of mankind.

if all you are saying when you say that mankind’s understanding of the Divine and mankind’s relationship to the Divine is the RC principle of doctrinal development, then we have no disagreement.

however, if you mean that there is going to be something new, not development, but something that fills in what Jesus knew and revealed, i disagree. i find it revealing that you have no idea what mankind NEEDS that Jesus did not provide.

 

[openmind77]

“If so many knowledgeable teachers are available, why did it take so long for the Church to acknowledge that the Earth is round and revolves around the Sun? Don’t you think the Christ knew that? But he has mentioned it to his followers then, most people would have thought he was crazy.”

it is true that knowledge of the earth’s spherical nature was not (to the best of my knowledge, i am open to correction on this point) documented in the new testament. that does not mean it was not discussed by the Lord.

perhaps you could give me a citation supporting your belief that the RCC taught as official doctrine that the earth was flat. i am unaware of where that was an official doctrinal teaching of the RCC. i am quite sure that it was never a “de fide” teaching of the RCC.

as for life on other planets, i do not understand how this is relevant to understanding the fullness of mankind’s relationship with God. i have never believed that Jesus needed to or desired to address every aspect of reality. it would have been pointless since no one else could ever possess that knowledge completely anyway. for example, Jesus certainly knew the principles of aerodynamics, but those principles are not essential to a human being’s salvation or mankind’s redemption.

as for the Lord’s origins, they are human through His mother and Divine (and by Divine i do not mean extra-terrestrial in the sense of from an other sentient creature) through His Father. that is what the RCC teaches and why anyone would question that is puzzling to me.

the RCC teaches that Jesus is the fullness of God’s revelation. i am in complete agreement with that and have never heard a good reason or good evidence for believing anything else.

i know you believe that God is going to reveal to mankind something that Jesus did not know or reveal to the apostles. i disagree with that.

Jesus knew everything. He chose to provide us with His understanding to the extent His apostles were capable of grasping it (His understanding) as well as revealing things the apostles did not fully grasp.

could there be something in His revelation that the RCC will provide through its process of doctrinal development? perhaps, in a manner similar to the development of the doctrine of the Incarnation, or the Immaculate Conception, or the Trinity, or a large number of doctrinal understanding.

however, the point remains that Jesus possessed perfect knowledge of creation, of reality, of the Godhead, of everything. there will be no new revelations. there will continue to be a development of our understanding of the significance of the Lord’s revelations within the body of believers. no development of the revelations can occur outside of the body of believers and most directly outside of the RCC.

all of this development in understanding is spurred by Jesus and His Incarnation, life, death and Resurrection.

anyone outside the community of theological/suprnatural faith has not and will not advance our understanding of the Lord, the Alpha and Omega of mankind.

if all you are saying when you say that mankind’s understanding of the Divine and mankind’s relationship to the Divine is the RC principle of doctrinal development, then we have no disagreement.

however, if you mean that there is going to be something new, not development, but something that fills in what Jesus knew and revealed, i disagree. i find it revealing that you have no idea what mankind NEEDS that Jesus did not provide.

In any case, I am very happy to meet someone who has access to all the Divine knowledge in the world and does not need any new guidance through a direct Messenger from God, even if that Messenger is the Christ himself.

 

[aragonjohn1]

Jesus said “I am the truth.” So there is only one truth, that of Jesus Christ. Any religion that does not follow Jesus Christ is not the truth, not even in part, no matter how politically incorrect that may be contemporary culture.

Now different Christian faiths have different beliefs about some things.All I can say is that it is not my place to judge who are “true” Christians. But the Bible teaches us unequivocally that there is only one truth and one way.

yes, our savior Jesus the Christ says that; " He only has one Bride, one Church, One Holy. "

God bless

 

[aragonjohn1]

In any case, I am very happy to meet someone who has access to all the Divine knowledge in the world and does not need any new guidance through a direct Messenger from God, even if that Messenger is the Christ himself.

:tiphat: hey, You know us Catholics are a tricky lot. in all seriousness though Catholicism is found by God and given all of the fulness of real Love and Truth and the only authority to interpret and promulgate this Love of our God’s. so, the church has Truth and wants to give charitably in metaphysical and physical in learning and flourishing throughout Good God’s creation. we all have much to know and learn from each other.

God bless

 

[tonyfish58]

what more is there to learn?

this is what i do not understand about your position.

is there any way you could express this concept that you are articulating, as i understand the concept it is that there is more for mankind to learn about its relationship with its Creator?

i do not think that is true, but maybe that is not what you are saying?

i totally agree that individuals possess differing levels of knowledge and understanding about their relationship with their Creator, but i attribute that to the imperfections of the individuals and not to the teachings of Christ.

my position is that anyone who gives themselves completely to Christ will grow in knowledge and understanding of their relationship with their Creator; and, that there is no limit to the knowledge and understanding that they will acquire.

all that is needed to understand reality perfectly has been given to mankind through the life, death and Resurrection of Jesus Christ.

just because you or i do not posses that fullness of understanding is not a reflection on the fullness of Christ’s teachings.

Eddie - I lot has been said overnight and I have limited time today, but I want to share your Faith

I can assure you that we know how you feel about Christ and His Teachings.

I do not know how to impart to you that the way you feel about Christ is the way a Baha’i feels about all the messengers. We are dumbstruck at their Greatness and Majesty

Yes Christ Word Contains all truth, but it is us mankind that has difficulty coming to terms with this truth.

Gods World is all embracing from the spiritual to the worldly, all aspects of life are in motion because of this Word.

Why do you think since the mid 1800’s there has been an explosion of Knowledge? Do you think this knowledge is man made?

In a religious tradition Knowledge was said to be 27 Letters. It is said up to the coming of the Bab only 2 letters of Knowledge had been released by God, at the Bab’s declaration is said the remaining 25 letters were released. Thus mankind now has the ability to tap in too all that can be known!

This stands to reason, history shows us it to be so! The thing is that to gain this knowledge and use it as we should we also need to know the Laws of God. This is one reason for the New Revelation, that is to give the Laws required to live with the Knowledge we have been blessed with.

Baha’u’llah has said “Each one of the revealed commands is a strong fortress for the protection of the world. Verily, this oppressed One only wishes your security and elevation”.

Thus while the world does not adhere to the Protective Words of God, it will continue to spiral towards its own destruction, but God will not let this destruction continue as it is wrtitten by Baha’u’llah

“The world is in travail, and its agitation waxeth day by day. Its face is turned towards waywardness and unbelief. Such shall be its plight, that to disclose it now would not be meet and seemly. Its perversity will long continue. And when the appointed hour is come, there shall suddenly appear that which shall cause the limbs of mankind to quake. Then, and only then, will the Divine Standard be unfurled, and the Nightingale of Paradise warble its melody”.

Then may be mankind will have finally learned our lesson, God is One, We are one, we must live together in this Love and do unto others as we would have them do unto us!

If the Bab, Baha’u’llah and Muhammad were not Founders of a Religion from God, then there is no Religion from the start of time that could make such a Claim. The evidence is so compelling, it is only our own selves that would reject the evidence.

God bless and Regards Tony

 

[eddie_too]

tony,

until someone tells me about a mystery of reality that i have not already learned of or heard of from Jesus Christ, i think i will continue to believe that all i need is Jesus.

you obviously believe that there is more to the story than Jesus can provide. i wish i knew what convinces you of this.