only one correct religion with the truth?

[SteveVH]

He is indeed talking about about your mortal life on earth. It does not mean life would not exist without the communion, but that it would be enhanced by it - that is all.

When he told the crowd, a group of living people, that unless they eat his flesh and drink his blood that they would have no life in them, doesn’t it seem a little strange to you that Jesus would be referring to our mortal life?

You don’t get to pick and choose Jesus’s words, but you should not read into them something which is not clearly stated.

Exactly. And Jesus certainly didn’t clearly state that his flesh and blood would simply enhance our life. He said we would have no life in us if we did not partake in it. It is you who are reading something into his words.

 

[openmind77]

When he told the crowd, a group of living people, that unless they eat his flesh and drink his blood that they would have no life in them, doesn’t it seem a little strange to you that Jesus would be referring to our mortal life?

Here is another translation of the verse. I prefer this one and it is referring to the current life:

J 6:53 “Believe me when I say that you must eat the body of the Son of Man, and you must drink his blood. If you don’t do this, you have no real life."

One more:
J 6:53 “Jesus therefore said to them, “Most certainly I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you don’t have life in yourselves.”

Exactly. And Jesus certainly didn’t clearly state that his flesh and blood would simply enhance our life. He said we would have no life in us if we did not partake in it. It is you who are reading something into his words.

Maybe the above translations are better than ‘enhance’. It is still not talking of the future, they are referring to the listeners as they are.

 

[daler]

Thanks, friend.

Could you please cite a particular comment there that you are interested in discussing?

PR,
. Thanks for the reply. I think what I am looking toward is how much symbolism there is in the Eucharist, rather than a kind of literal happening. A brief aspect of the quote in the link would be this:

. “And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to Me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on Me shall never thirst.”

. “Notice that “coming to Him” He expresses as eating, and “belief in Him” as drinking. Then it is evident and established that the celestial food is the divine bounties, the spiritual splendors, the heavenly teachings, the universal meaning of Christ. To eat is to draw near to Him, and to drink is to believe in Him.” (comments by Abdul Baha)

. So my own thoughts are that when Jesus said: “Do this in Remembrance of Me”, it is a means to an end. That is, by this symbolic act, we are reminded, or “re-minded” to get in touch with His Spirit, for we are forgetful of Him.

. You know how we learn in different ways, like reading aloud, or with music, helps enable us to recall or memorize better. So my thoughts are that by doing this tangible act, which draws our focus more acutely then reading or talking alone, we are brought to remembrance in much more than a mere intellectual way.

. Just wondering your thoughts or understanding.

 

[marywarfield]

You are looking at the Differences Man Makes with Gods Word and I am Not, that is the difference.

Christs and Muhammad’s Revelation Contain 100% of the Truth - For example, if Christs Word did not then would not the Perfection of Christ be lost

We as Humans look at this Word and do not see any where near 100% of the Truth and because of this we Divide Religions. If there is One God then the answer is obvious, there is One Truth.

But who will take up the challenge to look at it in this light?

God Bless all and regards Tony

That’s not sensible. One cannot simultaneously claim
Christ and Muhammad both have 100 percent truth.
Why? Believing Muhammad is even necessary calls
Christ a liar. So how could He be 100 percent truth
if its necessary for Muhhammad to come later?

 

[daler]

That’s not sensible. One cannot simultaneously claim
Christ and Muhammad both have 100 percent truth.
Why? Believing Muhammad is even necessary calls
Christ a liar. So how could He be 100 percent truth
if its necessary for Muhhammad to come later?

Mary,
. My understanding of progressive revelation is that God gives us portions of His knowledge over time, kind of like, say, baby birds are fed, a worm at at time. The parents don’t give a month’s worth of food at one meal, or a lifetime’s amount. The poor little birdie couldn’t handle it.

. Similarly, what Noah brought to the people of His day was, by today’s standards, very minute. Abraham, a little bit more. With Moses, again more was given to elevate the standards of human civilization. Even Jesus said, “I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.”

. So this process is continuous, even as Baha’u’llah states:

. "Know of a certainty that in every Dispensation the light of Divine Revelation hath been vouchsafed unto men in direct proportion to their spiritual capacity.

. Consider the sun. How feeble its rays the moment it appeareth above the horizon. How gradually its warmth and potency increase as it approacheth its zenith, enabling meanwhile all created things to adapt themselves to the growing intensity of its light. How steadily it declineth until it reacheth its setting point. Were it, all of a sudden, to manifest the energies latent within it, it would, no doubt, cause injury to all created things….

. In like manner, if the Sun of Truth were suddenly to reveal, at the earliest stages of its manifestation, the full measure of the potencies which the providence of the Almighty hath bestowed upon it, the earth of human understanding would waste away and be consumed; for men’s hearts would neither sustain the intensity of its revelation, nor be able to mirror forth the radiance of its light. Dismayed and overpowered, they would cease to exist."

from reference.bahai.org/en/t/b/PB/pb-64.html

.

 

[tonyfish58]

That’s not sensible. One cannot simultaneously claim
Christ and Muhammad both have 100 percent truth.
Why? Believing Muhammad is even necessary calls
Christ a liar. So how could He be 100 percent truth
if its necessary for Muhhammad to come later?

marywarfield- Good Question - This link will explain how it can be so - reference.bahai.org/en/t/b/GWB/gwb-22.html

Here are some relevant extracts in dot point only

• …These Manifestations of God have each a twofold station…
• …It is clear and evident to thee that all the Prophets are the Temples of the Cause of God, Who have appeared clothed in divers attire…
• …Wherefore, should one of these Manifestations of Holiness proclaim saying: “I am the return of all the Prophets,” He, verily, speaketh the truth. In like manner, in every subsequent Revelation, the return of the former Revelation is a fact, the truth of which is firmly established….
• …The other station is the station of distinction, and pertaineth to the world of creation, and to the limitations thereof…
• …It is because of this difference in their station and mission that the words and utterances flowing from these Well Springs of Divine knowledge appear to diverge and differ. Otherwise, in the eyes of them that are initiated into the mysteries of Divine wisdom, all their utterances are, in reality, but the expressions of one Truth…
• …Were any of the all-embracing Manifestations of God to declare: “I am God,” He, verily, speaketh the truth, and no doubt attacheth thereto…

It is well worth a read - God Bless and Regards Tony

 

[marywarfield]

Mary,
. My understanding of progressive revelation is that God gives us portions of His knowledge over time, kind of like, say, baby birds are fed, a worm at at time. The parents don’t give a month’s worth of food at one meal, or a lifetime’s amount. The poor little birdie couldn’t handle it.

. Similarly, what Noah brought to the people of His day was, by today’s standards, very minute. Abraham, a little bit more. With Moses, again more was given to elevate the standards of human civilization. Even Jesus said, “I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.”

. So this process is continuous, even as Baha’u’llah states:

. "Know of a certainty that in every Dispensation the light of Divine Revelation hath been vouchsafed unto men in direct proportion to their spiritual capacity.

. Consider the sun. How feeble its rays the moment it appeareth above the horizon. How gradually its warmth and potency increase as it approacheth its zenith, enabling meanwhile all created things to adapt themselves to the growing intensity of its light. How steadily it declineth until it reacheth its setting point. Were it, all of a sudden, to manifest the energies latent within it, it would, no doubt, cause injury to all created things….

. In like manner, if the Sun of Truth were suddenly to reveal, at the earliest stages of its manifestation, the full measure of the potencies which the providence of the Almighty hath bestowed upon it, the earth of human understanding would waste away and be consumed; for men’s hearts would neither sustain the intensity of its revelation, nor be able to mirror forth the radiance of its light. Dismayed and overpowered, they would cease to exist."

from reference.bahai.org/en/t/b/PB/pb-64.html

.

Exactly my point. If what you day here is true then Christ
is a liar and possibly Muhammad as well I don’t know.
But obviously if one or both are liars their
respective religions cannot as you put forth
contain 100 percent truth.

So which is it?

 

[Matthew_Light]

That’s not sensible. One cannot simultaneously claim
Christ and Muhammad both have 100 percent truth.
Why? Believing Muhammad is even necessary calls
Christ a liar. So how could He be 100 percent truth
if its necessary for Muhhammad to come later?

Why exactly does believing Muhammad turn Jesus into a liar?

 

[joe371]

Why exactly does believing Muhammad turn Jesus into a liar?

Believing what Muhammad had to say about Jesus (that He was not God, only a prophet, and did not die on the cross) makes Jesus a liar.

 

[joe371]

marywarfield- Good Question - This link will explain how it can be so - reference.bahai.org/en/t/b/GWB/gwb-22.html

Here are some relevant extracts in dot point only

• …These Manifestations of God have each a twofold station…
• …It is clear and evident to thee that all the Prophets are the Temples of the Cause of God, Who have appeared clothed in divers attire…
• …Wherefore, should one of these Manifestations of Holiness proclaim saying: “I am the return of all the Prophets,” He, verily, speaketh the truth. In like manner, in every subsequent Revelation, the return of the former Revelation is a fact, the truth of which is firmly established….
• …The other station is the station of distinction, and pertaineth to the world of creation, and to the limitations thereof…
• …It is because of this difference in their station and mission that the words and utterances flowing from these Well Springs of Divine knowledge appear to diverge and differ. Otherwise, in the eyes of them that are initiated into the mysteries of Divine wisdom, all their utterances are, in reality, but the expressions of one Truth…
• …Were any of the all-embracing Manifestations of God to declare: “I am God,” He, verily, speaketh the truth, and no doubt attacheth thereto…

It is well worth a read - God Bless and Regards Tony

:tsktsk: Both Christ and Muhammad, cannot be 100 percent correct. Believing what Muhammad had to say about Jesus (that He was not God, only a prophet, and did not die on the cross) makes Jesus a liar.

 

[PRmerger]

You don’t get to pick and choose Jesus’s words, but you should not read into them something which is not clearly stated.

You are correct that we should not “read into” the Words of Scripture, but the Scriptures state that there are lots of things that we believe that are “not clearly stated”.

Not everything we believe must be “clearly stated” in Scripture.

In fact, your statement is not “clearly stated” in the Bible. Unless you can tell me where the Bible says this: “You don’t get to pick and choose Jesus’s words, but you should not read into them something which is not clearly stated”

Also, can you tell me where the Bible “clearly states” that we should only follow the words of Jesus, and not the words of any of the other inspired writers? Book, chapter and verse, please!

 

[PRmerger]

PR,
. Thanks for the reply. I think what I am looking toward is how much symbolism there is in the Eucharist, rather than a kind of literal happening.

There is great symbolism in the Eucharist.

You have created a dichotomy where none exists. There need not be any “rather than” in our understanding of the Real Presence.

There is symbolism. There is literalism. There is spiritualism. There is materialism. It’s all there, in Him, through Him, and with Him!

 

[PRmerger]

He is indeed talking about about your mortal life on earth.

Then you are making Jesus out to be a liar. For clearly, there are millions of folks who have not partaken in the Eucharist that are still blessed with their mortal existence.

Your interpretation would read Jesus as saying, “Unless you eat my flesh you won’t have mortal life in you. And that means, you die when you don’t eat my flesh.”

Since you are still around, openmind, and don’t partake of the Eucharist, that means your interpretation is…wrong.

 

[openmind77]

Then you are making Jesus out to be a liar. For clearly, there are millions of folks who have not partaken in the Eucharist that are still blessed with their mortal existence.

Your interpretation would read Jesus as saying, “Unless you eat my flesh you won’t have mortal life in you. And that means, you die when you don’t eat my flesh.”

Since you are still around, openmind, and don’t partake of the Eucharist, that means your interpretation is…wrong.

Quite absurd to say that Jesus is a liar.

What he said in John 6:53 was “Unless you eat my flesh you have no real life in you.”

This has nothing to do with your future life. He is talking about the life as you experience it now.

 

[Matthew_Light]

What Jesus meant by life and death is not the common usage of the term.

He said, and His word is the truth:

“Let the dead bury their dead.”

From this, the meaning of life and death becomes evident…

 

[Matthew_Light]

Believing what Muhammad had to say about Jesus (that He was not God, only a prophet, and did not die on the cross) makes Jesus a liar.

Muhammad, through the Qur’an, wrote that Jesus is the Spirit of God and the Word of God.

The Word of God is exactly what the Gospel of John calls Jesus.

The Qur’an does NOT simply say that Jesus did not die on the cross. Most Muslims interpret it that way, but the passage in the Qur’an says something quite different:

“That they said (in boast), “We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of God”;- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-
Nay, God raised him up unto Himself; and God is Exalted in Power, Wise;-”

Elsewhere in the Qur’an it is written:

“And say not of those who are slain in the way of God: ‘They are dead.’ Nay, they are living”

And so some Muslims and all Baha’is interpret these writings to say that Jesus’ body was indeed put to death on the cross, but His spiritual Reality can never be killed and His eternal Light shall never put out. For Christ Jesus is not dead, He is living, and God raised Him up unto Himself as a light unto all the world.

 

[marywarfield]

Muhammad, through the Qur’an, wrote that Jesus is the Spirit of God and the Word of God.

The Word of God is exactly what the Gospel of John calls Jesus.

The Qur’an does NOT simply say that Jesus did not die on the cross. Most Muslims interpret it that way, but the passage in the Qur’an says something quite different:

“That they said (in boast), “We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of God”;- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-
Nay, God raised him up unto Himself; and God is Exalted in Power, Wise;-”

Elsewhere in the Qur’an it is written:

“And say not of those who are slain in the way of God: ‘They are dead.’ Nay, they are living”

And so some Muslims and all Baha’is interpret these writings to say that Jesus’ body was indeed put to death on the cross, but His spiritual Reality can never be killed and His eternal Light shall never put out. For Christ Jesus is not dead, He is living, and God raised Him up unto Himself as a light unto all the world.

You simply cannot have both. Christ is the fulfillment
of all OT prophecy- the fulfillment as in there is nothing
more until He returns. When He said- It is finished-
that is exactly what it means. Done, nada more to be
said or done except to realize WHO He is.
However if four hundred years later someone comes
along claiming that Christ was not enough, the job
is not done, and now we need to do things this new
way it means one of the following:
Jesus Christ was not the fulfillment.
Jesus Christ lied and was a false prophet.
Muhammad was a false prophet.

It is impossible to claim they are both 100 percent
truth since they contradict each other which means
one is false.

 

[marywarfield]

Quite absurd to say that Jesus is a liar.

What he said in John 6:53 was “Unless you eat my flesh you have no real life in you.”

This has nothing to do with your future life. He is talking about the life as you experience it now.

So are you eating the bread that is His Flesh or
are you dead now?

 

[marywarfield]

Muhammad, through the Qur’an, wrote that Jesus is the Spirit of God and the Word of God.

The Word of God is exactly what the Gospel of John calls Jesus.

The Qur’an does NOT simply say that Jesus did not die on the cross. Most Muslims interpret it that way, but the passage in the Qur’an says something quite different:

“That they said (in boast), “We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of God”;- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-
Nay, God raised him up unto Himself; and God is Exalted in Power, Wise;-”

Elsewhere in the Qur’an it is written:

“And say not of those who are slain in the way of God: ‘They are dead.’ Nay, they are living”

And so some Muslims and all Baha’is interpret these writings to say that Jesus’ body was indeed put to death on the cross, but His spiritual Reality can never be killed and His eternal Light shall never put out. For Christ Jesus is not dead, He is living, and God raised Him up unto Himself as a light unto all the world.

The Qu’ran also says this:

O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) a messenger from Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His Messengers. Say not “Three”: desist: It will be better for you: For Allah is One God: Glory be to Him: (Far Exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs. [Qur’an 4:171]

Direct contradiction of Christ.

 

[Matthew_Light]

Muhammad came six hundred years after Christ, to polytheists and idol worshipers who he taught to worship of the God of Abraham. All of whom now acknowledge the truth of Abraham, Moses, and Jesus instead of worshiping Taghout (an Arabian idol).

Those people didn’t know Jesus! Until Muhammad came and told them about the Word of God in the Qur’an.