only one correct religion with the truth?

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rinnie said:
Then you should put me at the top of your list as being the largest sinner for stating and believing God when he said he will send the Advocate the Holy Spirit to lead the RCC. He promised to never leave us orphans and be with us until the end of age.

Christ told us the CC was the Pilar of all truth. You claim there is no fullness of the truth, Christ said there is in his Church.

If you believe the word of God and believe he kept his promise to lead the CC through the power of the Holy Spirit how can you deny that truth?

So either you are wrong and there is absolute truth in the Church, or Christ left us orphans and did not keep his promise.🤷
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OR, was that one of those tid-bits added by some of those I spoke of in my previous post? Because it contradicts a lot that he previously said, like it was our right to question our leaders so we are not easily led astray, then only a a small bit later it says, no I didn’t mean that, the cc is truth no matter what. It alao contridicts those lessons qhich use corrupted religious men as examples. Contridiction much to prior material?
oldcatholicguy said:
Follow a book compiled by a religion that considers itself to be 100% true? If no religion is 100% and power corrupts you can’t cite the Bible as your source given that it is the product of a religion that considers itself to be the authority of the truth about God. You can’t even cite Jewish holy texts.
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I don’t. I take it as a dimmed light, from a bright source, or a candle lit from the sun. Not as potent as the source, due to being diminished by small means, but still a light that guides you. In the darkness.

I have felt God’s grace, I have felt God’s forgiveness, I have felt God’s wrath, and I have felt God’s love (unbelievable experience, by the way). God is the only certainty, God is the only truth. The rest is just opinion.
 
rinnie said:
Then you should put me at the top of your list as being the largest sinner for stating and believing God when he said he will send the Advocate the Holy Spirit to lead the RCC. He promised to never leave us orphans and be with us until the end of age.

Christ told us the CC was the Pilar of all truth. You claim there is no fullness of the truth, Christ said there is in his Church.

If you believe the word of God and believe he kept his promise to lead the CC through the power of the Holy Spirit how can you deny that truth?

So either you are wrong and there is absolute truth in the Church, or Christ left us orphans and did not keep his promise.🤷
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OR, was that one of those tid-bits added by some of those I spoke of in my previous post? Because it contradicts a lot that he previously said, like it was our right to question our leaders so we are not easily led astray, then only a a small bit later it says, no I didn’t mean that, the cc is truth no matter what. It also contradicts those lessons which use corrupted religious men as examples. Contradiction much to prior material? We are shown that corrupted Religious leaders were a very real threat even back at the time of Jesus, but I guess they all disappeared when the catholic church was founded, right?

Or all other churches since then? Illogical, irrational, and to add, due to human nature itself, impossible. Claiming it is impossible for it to become corrupt is still putting man equal to God. Man is NOT equal to God. We are lowly beings incapable of perfection, which means mistakes have happened, a lot; therefore it is impossible for ANY religion to be 100% accurate.

Do you think Satan would not attempt to infiltrate and corrupt religion? That’s like saying, I am leaving my 3-year old alone with the most delicious cake in the world for 10 minutes, I know he won’t touch it. Of course he would! That is a fairly basic strategy. Corrupt the message, poision the well your enemies drink from. Don’t allow yourselves to be led blindly by your leaders. Always keep your mind open to shepherds who are in reality, wolves.
oldcatholicguy said:
Follow a book compiled by a religion that considers itself to be 100% true? If no religion is 100% and power corrupts you can’t cite the Bible as your source given that it is the product of a religion that considers itself to be the authority of the truth about God. You can’t even cite Jewish holy texts.
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I don’t. I take it as a dimmed light, from a bright source, or a candle lit from the sun. Not as potent as the source, due to being diminished by small means, but still a light that guides you in the darkness.

I have felt God’s grace, I have felt God’s forgiveness, I have felt God’s wrath, and I have felt God’s love (unbelievable experience, by the way). God is the only certainty, God is the only truth. The rest is just opinion.
rinnie said:
or Christ left us orphans and did not keep his promise.🤷.
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Christ didn’t leave us orphans, we simply ran away from home. We broke the promise, not him. Because we are lowly selfish creatures, God is incapable of such things. Everything we touch turns to ash, everything God touches turns to eternal light. It is impossible to discern the real truth in this day in age. Everything has been dirtied and tampered with.

So, then you must ask yourself, why would God allow us to follow a tainted religion. The answer is simple. The basic message is still there. Our God is a wise and understanding God, who is fully aware of the evils and corruptions of man.
 
JayXT said:
OR, was that one of those tid-bits added by some of those I spoke of in my previous post? Because it contradicts a lot that he previously said, like it was our right to question our leaders so we are not easily led astray, then only a a small bit later it says, no I didn’t mean that, the cc is truth no matter what. It also contradicts those lessons which use corrupted religious men as examples. Contradiction much to prior material? We are shown that corrupted Religious leaders were a very real threat even back at the time of Jesus, but I guess they all disappeared when the catholic church was founded, right?

Or all other churches since then? Illogical, irrational, and to add, due to human nature itself, impossible. Claiming it is impossible for it to become corrupt is still putting man equal to God. Man is NOT equal to God. We are lowly beings incapable of perfection, which means mistakes have happened, a lot; therefore it is impossible for ANY religion to be 100% accurate.

Do you think Satan would not attempt to infiltrate and corrupt religion? That’s like saying, I am leaving my 3-year old alone with the most delicious cake in the world for 10 minutes, I know he won’t touch it. Of course he would! That is a fairly basic strategy. Corrupt the message, poision the well your enemies drink from. Don’t allow yourselves to be led blindly by your leaders. Always keep your mind open to shepherds who are in reality, wolves.

I don’t. I take it as a dimmed light, from a bright source, or a candle lit from the sun. Not as potent as the source, due to being diminished by small means, but still a light that guides you in the darkness.

I have felt God’s grace, I have felt God’s forgiveness, I have felt God’s wrath, and I have felt God’s love (unbelievable experience, by the way). God is the only certainty, God is the only truth. The rest is just opinion.

Christ didn’t leave us orphans, we simply ran away from home. We broke the promise, not him. Because we are lowly selfish creatures, God is incapable of such things. Everything we touch turns to ash, everything God touches turns to eternal light. It is impossible to discern the real truth in this day in age. Everything has been dirtied and tampered with.

So, then you must ask yourself, why would God allow us to follow a tainted religion. The answer is simple. The basic message is still there. Our God is a wise and understanding God, who is fully aware of the evils and corruptions of man.
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So other people are capable of error or being deceived by Satan, but you are not. That’s what your above boils down to.
 
oldcatholicguy said:
So other people are capable of error or being deceived by Satan, but you are not. That’s what your above boils down to.
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No. Not saying that at all. I think you may have misread it or misunderstood the point. I stated that all of man is imperfect, so that would negate your claim.
 
JayXT said:
No. Not saying that at all. I think you may have misread it or misunderstood the point. I stated that all of man is imperfect, so that would negate your claim.
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It’s very possible that I misunderstood what you were trying to say. The idea that there isn’t a faith that get’s it (here it refers to it’s teachings) 100% right is so foreign to me as to be very hard to understand. It’s foreign to me because my basis for believing there is such a faith is based off the assumption that God, not man, is the source of authority for it and the one who safeguard’s it from error (once again I’m referring to the teachings).
 
oldcatholicguy said:
It’s very possible that I misunderstood what you were trying to say. The idea that there isn’t a faith that get’s it (here it refers to it’s teachings) 100% right is so foreign to me as to be very hard to understand. It’s foreign to me because my basis for believing there is such a faith is based off the assumption that God, not man, is the source of authority for it and the one who safeguard’s it from error (once again I’m referring to the teachings).
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If what you said were true, it would mean that man would have no free will, but God gave us free will. Free will to do the what was right and to carry his message forward, or the free will to poison his message. If we went to church and God himself stood before us teaching that would be, obviously, infallible. However, it isn’t. Man is fallible. Man is inconsistent…only God is consistent.
 
JonNC said:
What do you mean by “mix with non-Christians”? Do you mean mix with socially, or mix with during and for worship?

Jon
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Yes dear friend, we have some close fronds who live nearby, they are Baha’is and the eldest son married a girl belonging to a strange church. He was converted into the church doctrines and has since been actively discouraged to mix socially with adherents of other religions and rarely with his own family. We don’t see him much any more these days.

Again, this is a church that has provided interpretations to its congregation based on the premise that they are guided by the Holy Spirit…

How would one know which teachings are guided by the Holy Spirit and which are not?

.
 
Servant19 said:
Yes dear friend, we have some close fronds who live nearby, they are Baha’is and the eldest son married a girl belonging to a strange church. He was converted into the church doctrines and has since been actively discouraged to mix socially with adherents of other religions and rarely with his own family. We don’t see him much any more these days.

Again, this is a church that has provided interpretations to its congregation based on the premise that they are guided by the Holy Spirit…

How would one know which teachings are guided by the Holy Spirit and which are not?

.
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Not presuming to speak for that particular community, but my experience is that this, among Christians, is a rather rare approach, and I personally would disagree with it. OTOH, our communion is very careful about unionism, and in the case of non-Christian religions, syncretism. So, worshipping with them is strongly discouraged.
My question was simply to clarify the difference, which it seems you have done.

Thanks,
Jon
 
PRmerger said:
So, it appears, that you do believe that a Believer must have at least 2 dogmas:

God is tolerant.
God is kind.

Is this correct?
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You don’t really have to. God does not mind even if you don’t believe that He is tolerant and kind.

God actually has only one requirement given in Matthew 41:46 - you need to give food to the hungry, drink to the thirsty, clothes to those without, healthcare to the sick and comfort to those who suffer - especially to the least, the poorest. If you don’t do that, that is the only time when He will reject you.
 
openmind77 said:
You don’t really have to. God does not mind even if you don’t believe that He is tolerant and kind.
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Really?

So someone could believe that God is cruel and intolerant, and this would be consistent with your paradigm–that whatever one wants to believe is ok?
God actually has only one requirement given in Matthew 41:46 - you need to give food to the hungry, drink to the thirsty, clothes to those without, healthcare to the sick and comfort to those who suffer - especially to the least, the poorest. If you don’t do that, that is the only time when He will reject you.
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So if someone believes that he doesn’t need to give to the hungry, etc etc etc, then he is going to hell, but everyone else is going to heaven?

Is that what you believe?
 
PRmerger said:
Really?

So someone could believe that God is cruel and intolerant, and this would be consistent with your paradigm–that whatever one wants to believe is ok?

So if someone believes that he doesn’t need to give to the hungry, etc etc etc, then he is going to hell, but everyone else is going to heaven?

Is that what you believe?
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Absolutely - but just belief is not enough, you need to actually do it - you need to give food to the hungry, drink to the thirsty, clothes to those without, healthcare to the sick and comfort to those who suffer - especially to the least, the poorest. (I forgot add - heaven is not eternal, you will be reborn to try to live a better life next time).
 
openmind77 said:
Absolutely - but just belief is not enough, you need to actually do it - you need to give food to the hungry, drink to the thirsty, clothes to those without, healthcare to the sick and comfort to those who suffer - especially to the least, the poorest. (I forgot add - heaven is not eternal, you will be reborn to try to live a better life next time).
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You do see that you are doing the very same thing to which you object, right?

You are reserving for yourself the right to draw a line in the sand and say, “This is what you must do to be saved!” while objecting to others who say, “This is what you must do to be saved!”

Why the double standard, openmind?

Also, why do you ignore the rest of the Christian Scriptures which detail all of the things which we must do in order to be saved, besides feed the hungry, clothe the naked?
 
PRmerger said:
You do see that you are doing the very same thing to which you object, right?

You are reserving for yourself the right to draw a line in the sand and say, “This is what you must do to be saved!” while objecting to others who say, “This is what you must do to be saved!”

Why the double standard, openmind?

Also, why do you ignore the rest of the Christian Scriptures which detail all of the things which we must do in order to be saved, besides feed the hungry, clothe the naked?
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I did not set the requirement. Jesus did: Read Matthew 41:46, it clearly says so. I don’t believe Jesus (himself) set any other requirement.

BTW, those who do not follow those instructions don’t go to eternal hell (although they may spend some time there), they just come back to earth (reincarnate) to try better next time,
 
What does it mean to be saved, and what does it mean to be damned?
 
openmind77 said:
I did not set the requirement.
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Of course you did. You decided to take one verse and ignore the rest of the Scriptures.

(Incidentally, your bible verse is incorrect).

Here’s how Catholics believe we are saved:

By believing in Christ (Jn 3:16; Acts 16:31)

By repentance (Acts 2:38; 2 Pet 3:9)

By baptism (Jn 3:5; 1 Pet 3:21; Titus 3:5)

By eating his flesh and drinking his blood (Jn 6)

By the work of the Spirit (Jn 3:5; 2 Cor 3:6)

By declaring with our mouths (Lk 12:8; Rom 10:9)

By coming to a knowledge of the truth (1 Tim 2:4; Heb 10:26)

By works (Rom 2:6-7; James 2:24)

By grace (Acts 15:11; Eph 2:8)

By his blood (Rom 5:9; Heb 9:22)

By his righteousness (Rom 5:17; 2 Pet 1:1)

By keeping the commandments (Matt 19:17)

By our words (Matt 12:37)

By feeding the hungry and clothing the naked (Matt: 25:42)
BTW, those who do not follow those instructions don’t go to eternal hell (although they may spend some time there), they just come back to earth (reincarnate) to try better next time,
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That makes no sense unless we can remember our past lives and learn from our mistakes.
 
PRmerger said:
Of course you did. You decided to take one verse and ignore the rest of the Scriptures.

(Incidentally, your bible verse is incorrect).

Here’s how Catholics believe we are saved:

By believing in Christ (Jn 3:16; Acts 16:31)

By repentance (Acts 2:38; 2 Pet 3:9)

By baptism (Jn 3:5; 1 Pet 3:21; Titus 3:5)

By eating his flesh and drinking his blood (Jn 6)

By the work of the Spirit (Jn 3:5; 2 Cor 3:6)

By declaring with our mouths (Lk 12:8; Rom 10:9)

By coming to a knowledge of the truth (1 Tim 2:4; Heb 10:26)

By works (Rom 2:6-7; James 2:24)

By grace (Acts 15:11; Eph 2:8)

By his blood (Rom 5:9; Heb 9:22)

By his righteousness (Rom 5:17; 2 Pet 1:1)

By keeping the commandments (Matt 19:17)

By our words (Matt 12:37)

By feeding the hungry and clothing the naked (Matt: 25:42)

That makes no sense unless we can remember our past lives and learn from our mistakes.
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None of the other stuff above are Jesus’s own personal instructions.

Matt: 25:42 is sufficient by itself - it covers everything (including our words, which we should be just careful about - nothing absolute there).

The soul remembers and learns from all our lives, even though the physical brain may not. Each new life is informed by all previous ones.
 
I essentially agree regarding the beatific vision.

However, I believe that we can attain that before death.

I also believe that service to God - which is service to one another - is an essential part of attaining the beatific vision.

Regarding reincarnation: awareness reincarnates itself, individual personalities do not.
 
openmind77 said:
None of the other stuff above are Jesus’s own personal instructions.
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Of course they are. Do you not think that Jesus spoke in John 6?

And it’s quite arbitrary to dismiss all the other sacred words which were given to you by the Catholic Church.

For you would not know which of the words were Christ’s, except that the CC told you that He said them.
The soul remembers and learns from all our lives, even though the physical brain may not. Each new life is informed by all previous ones.
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And the soul does not talk to the physical brain–else we would all be conscious of what mistakes we’ve made in our prior lives.
 
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