only one correct religion with the truth?

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Matthew_Light said:
I find near-death experiences as a whole very credible, faith-affirming, not ridiculous.
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Oh, I am not attaching “ridiculous” to near death experiences.

Please read my comment again.

The “ridiculous” was attached to the notion that Jesus cares not for what we believe.
No, I don’t think for a second that you are a heretic outside the religion of God, like you called those Catholics you disagree with. I think you are a sincere believer.
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I never call anyone a heretic here, Matthew, unless she/he has been proclaimed one by the Church. That is above my paygrade.

So since the Church hasn’t called these people heretics, neither would I.

And, again, I hope you see the hypocrisy in your position. You propose that we ought not judge anyone, yet here you are condemning me.

I find that quite ironic.
 
PRmerger said:
Oh, I am not attaching “ridiculous” to near death experiences.

Please read my comment again.

The “ridiculous” was attached to the notion that Jesus cares not for what we believe.

I never call anyone a heretic here, Matthew, unless she/he has been proclaimed one by the Church. That is above my paygrade.

So since the Church hasn’t called these people heretics, neither would I.

And, again, I hope you see the hypocrisy in your position. You propose that we ought not judge anyone, yet here you are condemning me.

I find that quite ironic.
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Having read some of the dialogue between you and Matthew, it doesn’t appear to me that he has condemned you, PR. Certainly he disagrees with you, but there is no condemnation as far as I can see.

Carry on…
 
meltzerboy said:
Having read some of the dialogue between you and Matthew, it doesn’t appear to me that he has condemned you, PR. Certainly he disagrees with you, but there is no condemnation as far as I can see.

Carry on…
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My bad.

I amend to say: you (Matthew) object to judging others, yet here you are judging me.
 
PRmerger said:
My bad.

I amend to say: you (Matthew) object to judging others, yet here you are judging me.
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I don’t necessarily think that the spirit of Matthews post is judging you either sister 🙂

I think Matthew is simply reflecting on the realities of the world, it’s systems, it’s beliefs and it’s actions which have all contributed towards some good, but also an awful lot of bad, (oppression, patronisation, paternalism, tyranny and other injustices) and all in the name of God.

It is with such reflections that solutions may be proposed to “try”, and “maybe” there might be a “possibility” that it may assist the world towards a more spiritual alignment with the Creators Will, the Fathers Will.

To insist that there is one Truth and only one Truth even though the said Truth has done little to alleviate the injustices that we are reflecting on, is in my opinion, humbly, going against the Will of the Father.

The Father does not want injustice. The Father does not want segregation and oppression. For thousands of years this has continued.

As human brings endowed with a God-given capacity to “discern things” and use our “intellect” one must see it as our duty to at least investigate ways in which we can collaborate to find sustainable solutions to these things, and even, if Hod Himself has provided us with guidance on these matters.

🙂

.
 
To continue, if I may, a lot of the apathy towards searching for sustainable solutions to the institutional problems in the world today lies in the belief that human beings are “inherently sinful”

When this belief system is firmly established within any community, the goodwill of the community revolves around “suffering alleviation” not “sustainable solutions,” because hope is lost in human beings to be sustainably good…

I would be interested if the Catholic community have any examples of endeavours to provide sustainable solutions to the worlds problems rather than charitable works and suffering alleviation, which, I do believe to be sacred and noble endeavours, but are trumped by endeavours to provide charitable works AND sustainable development.

Thank you for reading

🙂
 
Servant19 said:
I think Matthew is simply reflecting on the realities of the world,
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Yes. As am I. As is the Catholic Church.

And yet for some reason he is reserving for himself the right to do this, while objecting to Catholics and Catholicism doing the same thing.
it’s systems, it’s beliefs and it’s actions which have all contributed towards some good, but also an awful lot of bad, (oppression, patronisation, paternalism, tyranny and other injustices) and all in the name of God.
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Well, no one here has a different opinion on this. 🤷

We are all agreed that the world’s systems, beliefs and actions have all contributed towards some good but also an awful lot of bad, all in the name of God.
It is with such reflections that solutions may be proposed to “try”, and “maybe” there might be a “possibility” that it may assist the world towards a more spiritual alignment with the Creators Will, the Fathers Will.
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What is this solution again? :confused:
To insist that there is one Truth and only one Truth even though the said Truth has done little to alleviate the injustices that we are reflecting on, is in my opinion, humbly, going against the Will of the Father.
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Be careful again, Servant.

The Catholic Church which insists that there is one Truth has done a mighty lot to alleviate the injustices that we are reflecting on. A whole lot. More than any other institution in the entirety of civilization.

So let me remind you that you are on a Catholic forum, and to declare that “the said Truth has done little to alleviate the injustices” borders on contemptuous of that which is hosting you here.
The Father does not want injustice. The Father does not want segregation and oppression.
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And it is thanks to the Catholic Church that you know this.
For thousands of years this has continued.
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Sadly, how true this is.
As human brings endowed with a God-given capacity to “discern things” and use our “intellect” one must see it as our duty to at least investigate ways in which we can collaborate to find sustainable solutions to these things, and even, if Hod Himself has provided us with guidance on these matters.
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🙂
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Very Catholic, this. 👍
 
Servant19 said:
To continue, if I may, a lot of the apathy towards searching for sustainable solutions to the institutional problems in the world today lies in the belief that human beings are “inherently sinful”
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Well, thank goodness that Catholicism professes something quite different.

Perhaps you might want to go to a Calvinist forum to discuss that erroneous belief with them?

The Catholic Church proclaims that we are good, but flawed. Inclined towards sin, but not inherently sinful.

Although it is proper to each individual, original sin does not have the character of a personal fault in any of Adam’s descendants.** It is a deprivation of original holiness and justice, but human nature has not been totally corrupted:** it is wounded in the natural powers proper to it, subject to ignorance, suffering and the dominion of death, and inclined to sin - an inclination to evil that is called concupiscence". Baptism, by imparting the life of Christ’s grace, erases original sin and turns a man back towards God, but the consequences for nature, weakened and inclined to evil, persist in man and summon him to spiritual battle–CCC 405
 
Servant19 said:
To continue, if I may, a lot of the apathy towards searching for sustainable solutions to the institutional problems in the world today lies in the belief that human beings are “inherently sinful”

When this belief system is firmly established within any community, the goodwill of the community revolves around “suffering alleviation” not “sustainable solutions,” because hope is lost in human beings to be sustainably good…

I would be interested if the Catholic community have any examples of endeavours to provide sustainable solutions to the worlds problems rather than charitable works and suffering alleviation, which, I do believe to be sacred and noble endeavours, but are trumped by endeavours to provide charitable works AND sustainable development.

Thank you for reading

🙂
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I don’t see anyplace God asked us to find sustainable
solutions for the world. God said : The poor will always
be with us. Direct quote Servant.

Keyword- always.

I don’t see where God asked us to alleviate suffering
or end poverty or create sustainable anything.

That is actually God’s pay grade Servant, not ours.

We don’t work to maintain a status quo for a huggable
society.

God asked us to be full of faith, hope, charity and
work for things not temporal or impermanent.

You are demanding we do His work and work for
sustainability for all in a temporary world that is
passing away as we speak. Not sensible.
 
Dear Mary and PR 🙂
Muslim leaders embrace Ayatollah Tehrani’s call for religious coexistence
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news.bahai.org/story/995
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LONDON, 13 May 2014, (BWNS) — Muslim leaders in Pakistan, the United Kingdom, Bahrain, India, and Iran are echoing the call for religious tolerance and “coexistence” with Baha’is, issued last month by a senior Iranian religious leader.
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The expression of support is significant because many Muslim leaders interpret Islamic teachings as saying that only three faiths – Judaism, Christianity, and Islam – are divine in origin and therefore legitimate as systems of religious belief. This has led to restrictions on religious freedom in some countries.
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The statements of these Muslim leaders are all the more noteworthy as they are made against a backdrop of ongoing severe repression of the Baha’i community in Iran, that country’s largest non-Muslim religious minority. Among the wide-ranging acts of relentless persecution throughout the country are the imprisonment of infants with their Baha’i mothers, the continued denial to Baha’i students of access to higher education, obstruction of the right to earn a livelihood, and the desecration and destruction of Baha’i cemeteries, most recently in Shiraz.
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In Pakistan, Allama Abulfateh G. R. Chishti, chairman of the Universal Interfaith Peace Mission, wrote that “Islam in its true nature is a preserver of minority religions under it… As the Qur’an says: ‘There is no compulsion in Religion…’”
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He said, however, Baha’is have been persecuted in Iran “because religion today has been misinterpreted by the religio-political, and exploited by them for their vested interest.”
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Therefore, he wrote, Ayatollah Tehrani’s “voice must not be taken lightly,” saying that he has risked "his own life by raising the issue of the security of a minority religion in Iran.
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“All the peace loving and believing in freedom religions should support the Ayatollah if they really wish to end religiously motivated violence,” he said.
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In the United Kingdom last week, the founder of the British Muslim Forum said he hoped Ayatollah Tehrani’s initiative would “result in bringing much needed understanding” between Muslims and Baha’is in Iran and elsewhere.
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“The Forum congratulates the Ayatollah for his courageous and dignified act and sincerely hopes that it will open the door of constructive inter-faith relations between the two faith communities in Iran,” wrote Maulana Shahid Raza on 5 May 2014.
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Yesterday, Fiyaz Mughal, director of Faith Matters, an interfaith and anti-extremist organization based in the United Kingdom, published an article in the Huffington Post that praised the actions of Ayatollah Abdol-Hamid Masoumi-Tehrani, who in April bravely gifted to the Baha’is of the world an illuminated work of calligraphy featuring verses from the Baha’i sacred writings.
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“[T]he symbolism of [his] ‘reaching out’ comes in the wake of several recent statements by religious scholars in the Muslim world who have set out alternative interpretations of the teachings of Islam in which tolerance of every religion is, in fact, upheld by the holy Qur’an,” wrote Mr. Mughal.
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Ibrahim Mogra, assistant secretary general of the Muslim Council of Britain, likewise summed up this burgeoning global conversation recently, also commenting on the significance of Ayatollah Tehrani’s gift to Baha’is.
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“He has reminded us that Islam is a religion of peace that recognizes diversity of every kind as part of God’s design for his creation,” wrote Imam Mogra on 21 April 2014 in an article featured on the website of Britain’s The Guardian newspaper.
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“The Ayatollah has done something unprecedented in Iran,” continued Imam Mogra. “And he is part of a growing trend in that country; others have also championed the inalienable rights of all Iranian citizens. Islam has a history of defending minorities and protecting their religious rights and freedoms.”
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In Bahrain, a similar expression of support came from a prominent Muslim journalist: Es’haq Al-Sheikh, who wrote in Alayam that Ayatollah Tehrani’s gift to Baha’is was an “act that reflects a heightened understanding of the Holy Qur’an’s call for religious coexistence.”
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“People are free to decide what should comprise their religious beliefs – all religions with no exception are equal in rank theologically,” wrote Mr. Al-Sheikh, in an article headlined: “Allow for the Baha’i Faith amongst us.”
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“Since its inception, the Baha’i Faith has faced persecution, oppression, punishment and disdain – a matter that contradicts the spiritual and intellectual freedom of coexistence amongst all religions, with no exception, including the Baha’i Faith,” wrote Mr. Al-Sheikh.
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After Ayatollah Tehrani’s gift to the Baha’i world was announced on 7 April, expressions of moral and theological support began to come in from Muslim leaders.
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On 10 April, Maulana Khalid Rasheed Farangi Mahli, head of the Islamic Centre of India, issued a statement saying: "This friendliness towards a beleaguered religious minority is an exemplary act. It underscores the principle of the equality of all people before God, irrespective of religious belief.
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“Islam teaches brotherhood and unity with all peoples on earth, and Ayatollah Tehrani’s exalted act is in accordance with the fundamental teachings of God,” said Maulana Khalid Rasheed.This is an example of how the Traditions of a Faith can be questioned in order to find “possible” and “maybe” solutions to age-old sources of segregation and division which can forge a “sustainable” solution to a problem which has existed for a century and more.
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And in Iran last week, a high-ranking cleric – while not mentioning Ayatollah Tehrani – declared that interpretations of Islam that hold Baha’is to be impure are incorrect – and that Baha’is should therefore enjoy equal rights.
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“Like all other religious jurists who believe that [all] people are ritually pure, I also believe that Baha’is are pure,” wrote Hojatoleslam Mohammad Taghi Fazel Meybodi.
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“In accordance with the citizenship rights of all citizens of a country, Muslims, Baha’is, Zoroastrians, or any people holding any set of beliefs should enjoy rights equal to those of any other citizens of the country,” wrote Hojatoleslam Meybodi in an essay on Iranwire, which has been translated by Iran Press Watch.
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“There should be no difference between a Baha’i, a Jew and other religious minorities in other situations such as the right to education, the right to earn a living, the right to select one’s residence, etc.,” continued Hojatoleslam Meybodi.
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The public reaction to these ideas has been considerable.
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Mr. Al-Sheikh’s article in Alayam has been shared extensively through social media.
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And individuals posted some 234 comments to The Guardian’s article by Imam Mogra before the discussion page was closed.
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Someone identified as SaraNovember wrote: “Iran is home to a very kind and educated people with a rich culture, which makes their oppression under a brutal regime even more heart breaking. This is a hopeful story…”
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This is an example of how the Traditions of a Faith can be questioned in order to find “possible” and “maybe” solutions to age-old sources of segregation and division which can forge a “sustainable” solution to a problem which has existed for a century and more.

The Ayatollah is not moving towards a heretical position in his opinion, but is moving within the billows which the breezes of the Holy Spirit is guiding him.

This from a Islamic leader.

Can Catholicism possibly find such courage to follow in similar footsteps?

Yesterday I visited a Catholic church and talked to the Father about our local Baha’i childrens classes which take place in a park just outside the Church. We asked him if we could possibly conduct our classes in one of the Church rooms during days when it is raining, in order to have shelter. He said “No” because we are not the same 😦

What is to be done in the world where humanity over-rides fundamental beliefs?
 
Servant19 said:
Yesterday I visited a Catholic church and talked to the Father about our local Baha’i childrens classes which take place in a park just outside the Church. We asked him if we could possibly conduct our classes in one of the Church rooms during days when it is raining, in order to have shelter. He said “No” because we are not the same 😦

What is to be done in the world where humanity over-rides fundamental beliefs?
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. I do not wish this to be understood, as it is not directed towards the Catholic Church, or any other particular group, whatever their beliefs. Its just an irony of the human condition, which applies worldwide to all of us, as we proceed on stage with our lives.

. When Jimmy Carter was President of the US, a black Christian minister went to his home town of Plains, Georgia, hoping to visit his church. He was refused entry at the door because of the color of his skin.

. One can draw the conclusion that Jesus would not be admitted into that church either, if he had too much of a sun tan… In other words, in this particular instance, there was room only for white followers of Christ, but not colored followers of Christ, and Christ would be admitted only if He was white, but not allowed in what is supposed to be “His Church” if He were black.

. We, as human beings, are subject to some pretty bizarre behavioral traits, among them racial and religious prejudice, in which we revere our own selves above others - even the Lord Himself! Unless He does what we want Him to do…

. Hmmmmm…
.
 
Servant19 said:
This is an example of how the Traditions of a Faith can be questioned in order to find “possible” and “maybe” solutions to age-old sources of segregation and division which can forge a “sustainable” solution to a problem which has existed for a century and more.

The Ayatollah is not moving towards a heretical position in his opinion, but is moving within the billows which the breezes of the Holy Spirit is guiding him.

This from a Islamic leader.

Can Catholicism possibly find such courage to follow in similar footsteps?

Yesterday I visited a Catholic church and talked to the Father about our local Baha’i childrens classes which take place in a park just outside the Church. We asked him if we could possibly conduct our classes in one of the Church rooms during days when it is raining, in order to have shelter. He said “No” because we are not the same 😦

What is to be done in the world where humanity over-rides fundamental beliefs?
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Uh no. We do not have a need to be as benevolent to you
as Islam because actual point of fact: you have experienced
no oppression from the Catholic Church now have you?
Your comparison is ABSURD and insulting.

You try to compare the liability insurance issues of a parish
priest who won’t let you use a classroom to Bahai
babies and mother jailed?
Is your perception of reality that skewed?

When you find a place where Bahai are being actually
persecuted by the Catholic Church and we are jailing your
babies- by all means
try again.

But if tolerance already exists between Bahai and
Catholic the classy thing for you to do would be to say
hey great and move on.

And btw we don’t let other religious groups use our
parish rooms either. Not Bahai, not Islam, not Jews,
not Hindhus. Why? Insurance. Sorry for the torture
inflicted upon you.
We just this year began renting our parish hall for
non Catholic events. A nightmare in insurance.
Every time some blighter sneaks in a beer the price doubles.
Now we have to also have a non refundable deposit
on the oven cause they left it a mess.

See the Catholic Church lives in the REAL world
Servant. We don’t have time to torture you or put
up with fantasy persecutions.

Good grief.
 
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