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Tom_Baum
Guest
Whatever you did to the least, you did unto Me
Whatever you did not do to the least, you did not do unto Me.
Jesus said lots of things and some of those things He said are even written down.
P
PRmerger
Guest
Indeed.
And I will actually correct the above to let you know that the Catholic Church is not Roman, Tom. The Roman rite is only one of dozens of rites/churches in the universal church, the Catholic Church.
T
Tom_Baum
Guest
You wrote, “But if tolerance already exists between Bahai and
Catholic the classy thing for you to do would be to say
hey great and move on.”
Did Jesus say, ‘have tolerance’?
Or did Jesus say, “Love one another as I have loved you”?
You also wrote, “the Catholic Church lives in the REAL world” and it has been reported that Jesus died in the “REAL world”.
M
marywarfield
Guest
I really wish you would stay on topic and stop making
irrelevant responses to every Catholics post.
If you had been bothering to follow the thread you
would see that my response is to Servant claiming the
Holy Spirit moved the Ayatollah to speak against
persecuting Bahai and why can’t Catholics be more
like the Ayatollah?
Because we never persecuted the Bahai to begin
with that’s why.
Your responses to PR and to me make no substantive
contribution.
T
Tom_Baum
Guest
As far as, “Unless there is some other way you know that the Incarnation is salvific?”, I wouldn’t say that I “know” this but I do believe that what God did in the Incarnation, and is still doing, is to bring about the ultimate reconcilliation of God and humanity,
I believe that it was thru Jesus that I met Dad and came to the realization that God Is Love.
It was thru the Holy Spirit that it was revealed to me that the Catholic Eucharist Is Jesus.
I was taught about the Trinity thru the Catholic Church but I believe it was God-Incarnate Who revealed God the Father to me and I know it was the Holy Spirit Who revealed to me that the Catholic Eucharist Is Jesus.
God doesn’t always seem to do things according to what others seem to think/believe that God should do things and if one remembers, what God did in the Incarnation was quite a shock, to put it mildly, and God’s “work” of the Incarnation, I would say, is not completely over, it is still unfolding before our very eyes and ears whether or not we can see or hear.
P
PRmerger
Guest
And where is the story of the Incarnation given to humanity, Tom?
That is, how do we know about the Incarnation, and its meaning?
Answer: through…
the…
Catholic…
Church.
And that is the ONLY way you know this, Tom.
QED.
P
PRmerger
Guest
It is only because the Catholic Church told you that Jesus is the 2nd person of the Godhead, and that through Him you will know the Father, that you know this.
And it is only because of the CC that you know that God is love.
And it is only because of the CC you know that the Holy Spirit is God, and that the Eucharist is Christ’s Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity.
You know this ONLY because the CC told you this, Tom.
Very Catholic, this!
P
PRmerger
Guest
Can you give an example of anyone throughout the entirety of human civilization, who was able to profess any of the above without hearing it from the Church first?
That is, can you identify an individual, in, say, the jungles of Malaysia, who prayed on his own, never hearing of Christianity, and came up with the idea, “God is present in a wafer!” or “God is a Father, and I come to Him through the Son!”
No, Tom.
All of your ideas above comes to you, and to the entirety of humanity, via the Catholic Church. :yup:
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Tom_Baum
Guest
You wrote, “Your responses to PR and to me make no substantive contribution.”
What is wrong with talking about Jesus and some of what Jesus said, especially considering that Jesus is said to have said, “I Am the Way, the Truth and the Life (Light)”?
As far as at least some of my reponses to PR, I am just pointing out what some of the Catholic Churches’s teachings are, what is wrong with that?
I, personally, do not look at Christianity as a religion but it was not me who phrased the question the way it was phrased.
T
Tom_Baum
Guest
The “story” of the Incarnation is given thru Christianity not just the Catholic Church.
There are some who seem to think/believe that only the Catholic Church is Christian, I am not one of them.
There are plenty of people who have heard about the Incarnation and have heard about it in other places than the Catholic Church.
P
PRmerger
Guest
Well, let’s talk about this.
What church can trace itself back 2000 years, save for the Catholic Church and the Orthodox?
If they did, they would be diverging from their Catholic Faith, for our Church does not teach that only the CC is Christian (and you should know this, Tom!)
Of course.
But it is ONLY because the CC preserved the gospel for these other churches to spread the good news.
They would not know it any other way.
They would not have their Bible, except for the Catholic Church.
They would not know that the Gospel of Mark is inspired, but the Gospel of Thomas is not, except for the Catholic Church.
P
PRmerger
Guest
Another example of your knowing something ONLY because the Catholic Church told you this!
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Tom_Baum
Guest
It was thru what the SSND taught me in grade school about Jesus that I believe/d that Jesus is the 2nd Person of the Trinity but it was thru what is written in the bible, “No one comes to the Father except thru Me”, that I believe that it was thru Jesus that I met Dad, I do NOT know it was thru Jesus, I believe it was thru Jesus.It is only because the Catholic Church told you that Jesus is the 2nd person of the Godhead, and that through Him you will know the Father, that you know this.
Actually, it was because Sister Phillip Marie, I hope I spelled her name right, taught me this in second grade that I had even heard this statement but before I met Dad I had no idea that this statement was literal.And it is only because of the CC that you know that God is love.
I accepted this statement (God Is Love) but before meeting Dad, I had no idea what it meant and as far as you telling me what I know or do not know and how I know or do not know something is completely absurd.
Another case of you telling someone else what and how they know something when you do not have a clue what you are talking about.And it is only because of the CC you know that the Holy Spirit is God, and that the Eucharist is Christ’s Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity.
I was taught that God Is a Trinity and I believed it, not knew but believed.
I was taught that the Eucharist is the Body and Blood of Jesus and I believed it, not knew but believed, and it was not until the Holy Spirit revealed this to me that I knew it to be true.
Believe and know do NOT mean the same thing to me and I try to say what I believe and say what I know, some seem to think that believe and know are identical, they are NOT.l
Actually, wrong again, in grade school where I was taught some of the things that I believe or used to believe was taught to me by the SSND using the Baltimore Catechism.You know this ONLY because the CC told you this, Tom.
Very Catholic, this!
T
Tom_Baum
Guest
It good to see that you consider all of Christianity as part of the (Universal) Catholic Church.
As Jesus said, “I Am the Vine, you are the branches”.
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PRmerger
Guest
Yep. And they got the lowdown from…
wait for it…
wait for it…
the…
Catholic Church!
And from whence do you think the Bible came, Tom?
Do you think a dove brought it from heaven, leather bound?
Or did it come from…
(you guessed it!)
the Catholic Church.
Awesome.
So, again, you have the CC to thank for all of this.
Sure.
I am just pointing out something you clearly have never considered: that your salvation comes to you ONLY through the CC.
You would not know anything at all about God, except that you were taught this by the CC.
Indeed.
Ok.
But your knowledge and salvation still comes to you ONLY through one means: the CC.
I don’t believe that I have said anything regarding belief/knowledge and whether they are the same/different.
Only that if you know anything at all about God, it is because the CC preserved this for you.
Thus, your salvation comes ONLY through the CC.
LOL!!
Can you tell me who gave us the Baltimore Catechism?
P
PRmerger
Guest
As the Church proclaims, so I proclaim.
If a person is baptized in water using the Trinitarian formula, he is grafted into His Body, the Catholic Church.
Amen!
Thank the CC for telling you this.
T
Tom_Baum
Guest
And “our salvation”, humanity’s, comes ONLY thru the Jews.Yep. And they got the lowdown from…
wait for it…
wait for it…
the…
Catholic Church!
And from whence do you think the Bible came, Tom?
Do you think a dove brought it from heaven, leather bound?
Or did it come from…
(you guessed it!)
the Catholic Church.
Awesome.
So, again, you have the CC to thank for all of this.
Sure.
I am just pointing out something you clearly have never considered: that your salvation comes to you ONLY through the CC.
You would not know anything at all about God, except that you were taught this by the CC.
Indeed.
Ok.
But your knowledge and salvation still comes to you ONLY through one means: the CC.
I don’t believe that I have said anything regarding belief/knowledge and whether they are the same/different.
Only that if you know anything at all about God, it is because the CC preserved this for you.
Thus, your salvation comes ONLY through the CC.
LOL!!
Can you tell me who gave us the Baltimore Catechism?
And “our salvation”, humanity’s, comes ONLY thru God.
Can’t go back any ONLIER, can we?
M
marywarfield
Guest
Yes…and if salvation comes through the Jews
who lead them? THEIR Pope. Who was their Pope?
The King’s Vicar of the House of David, the only
holder of the key to the House of David, giving him
the authority and responsibility to: wait for it…
Open and shut. Isiaah 22: 21-25
And who succeeded that Vicar? Peter, as the Vicar
of Christ the King of the House of David.
So where does anyone anywhere get this
information on Incarnation or Trinity?
Obviously the Catholic Church. No where else as
Peter holds the keys and just as the House of
David, safeguards and disseminates the truth
throughout the world.
That is WHY we say salvation CAME through the
Jews and today comes through the Holy Mother
Church. This was the plan and action of Christ
from the beginning to the end.
You can’t escape the primacy of the Church. No
one can.
D
daler
Guest
PR,Is there something in Catholicism that you think prevents this?
This question could, or perhaps should, be reframed and rephrased. If I may, which will lead to the main point (as I perceive it), allow me to do so:
. Is there something in Catholicism that you think prevents this?
. Is there something in Protestantism that you think prevents this?
. Is there something in Islam that you think prevents this?
. Is there something in Buddhism that you think prevents this?
. Is there something in Judaism that you think prevents this?
. Is there something in Native American that you think prevents this?
. So if we can incorporate into this fundamental question the broader context of what it is that is preventing all of God’s children from working together and solving the problems which are being passed down from generation to generation, century after century, perhaps we can gain some insight.
. Each of us is born, for the most part, with a world view familiar to ourselves and those around us which we take for granted to be the truth. This is a natural phenomenon applicable to everyone who is human, regardless of the culture or belief system they have inherited.
. The struggle common to all, then, is, as Rodney King stated: “Can’t we all just get along?”
. So how do we do that? How do we all just get along, as we live on a single planet with a single atmosphere, one great ocean surrounding all lands which we occupy, while we identify ourselves separately, one from the other, according to geography and beliefs, as well as the old racial identities, etc… ?
. On an individual level, and to some extent within groups, I have seen acceptance and cooperation many times. It seems to be that the further one scales the hierarchy, the tighter they cling to the certainty of their own entrenched identities, which are, for the most part, inherited. That is an observation, and somewhat of a generalization, of course, but it speaks to the common problem facing all of humanity - all of God’s children, who are divided because of it.
. So how do we, in this generation and for those to follow, get along and create a paradigm of improvement in the conditions of all humanity, and especially those to come, who will inherit the fruits of our effort, or lack thereof, without overcoming whatever it is that “prevents this”?
. When we ask others to reexamine their own positions and beliefs, inherited or otherwise, but do not require the same for ourselves, then it would seem to be an unreasonable demand. We must all participate in this process which is so desperately needed when the status quo obviously isn’t working, or is working only for the benefit of a chosen few.
. I think this what Servant is trying to say, but it is not for me to speak for him, or you, or anyone else. We are all making efforts to understand each other here through intelligent and well intended dialogue, while at the same time facing the problems inherent in positions of different approaches to our beliefs.
. There is some frustration expressed at times, but this is understandable. We are talking to each other, trying to gain insight into these different world views, and that is the importance of such dialogue. Otherwise, it is a colossal waste of time.
. God bless everyone who comes here with a heart turned towards God, however we perceive Him, as we meet the challenge of whatever it is that “prevents this” vision we all seem to share for a better world which we hope to pass on to our children.
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