only one correct religion with the truth?

[Servant19]

I’m thinking about pouring our dear sister a drink, I’m exhausted.

But for some reason I hear a Holy Spirit kind of voice in my heart telling me to be patient, be loving, and gently nurture the soul, and persist with your heart burning with loving kindness.

So I will

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[eddie_too]

no human soul has ever existed without a physical body.

our Creator created human beings to have both a body and a soul.

I have no idea why people think that a human being’s ultimate destiny is to exist without the body that was created at the same time his or her soul was created.

perhaps someone else can explain why some people think that our ultimate destiny is to exist without a body?

 

[Matthew_Light]

perhaps someone else can explain why some people think that our ultimate destiny is to exist without a body?

I’d be willing to talk about that in a new thread on that topic if you were really interested and wanted to start one.

I think this thread has had enough off-topic digressions

 

[PRmerger]

And if you could please give the book, chapter and verse that states that the Resurrection was a clearly demarcated spiritual event, and not an event which involved the flesh, that would be helpful, friend.

As such, it appears as if you are simply making something up about a “clear demarcation”, as it applies to our discussion here.

43 Our bodies are buried in brokenness, but they will be raised in glory. They are buried in weakness, but they will be raised in strength. 44 They are buried as natural human bodies, but they will be raised as spiritual bodies. For just as there are natural bodies, there are also spiritual bodies.

Ummmm…I don’t see anything in Corinthians that says that the Resurrection was a clearly demarcated spiritual event.

Can you please cite the book, chapter and verse that says this, dear friend?

Remember, that was your original point.

Are these not your words?

The resurrection was a spiritual event, not a religious event.

Source for this, please, from our holy book.

 

[PRmerger]

I believe it was a physical event. Come on sister, is this serious??? Lol

Then where is the Roman verification you require for physical events? Please cite the outside sources that detail the virgin birth, which you say you believe in.

 

[Servant19]

Ummmm…I don’t see anything in Corinthians that says that the Resurrection was a clearly demarcated spiritual event.

Can you please cite the book, chapter and verse that says this, dear friend?

Remember, that was your original point.

Are these not your words?

Source for this, please, from our holy book.

Hello PR. I think if we are currently composed of natural bodies, then Paul is clearly saying in 1Corinthians above, that we no longer have this body after death.

He does say we have a glorified body, he doesn’t say we have a part natural/part spiritual body, he clearly says we have a spiritual body. It’s a clear demarcation.

This is further emphasised by Jesus Himself in Luke 20:36, where He states that the when resurrected, “we are like the angels”

Now I’ve never seen any angels with physical bodies. As far as I know they are spirits, and I can’t see them.

Then where is the Roman verification you require for physical events? Please cite the outside sources that detail the virgin birth, which you say you believe in.

There are PUBLIC physical events and there are PRIVATE physical events. The public ones like all men become frogs can be verified PUBLICLY.

The private physical events are PRIVATE, hence public verification is impossible.

I had kale for dinner yesterday, you can believe me or not. Doesn’t require any government or independent verification.

I went out yesterday and slashed the tires of every single car in Sydney Australia. You can believe me or not, but when you read about this in the internet newspapers, it then becomes PUBLIC knowledge.

That’s the difference between the conception of a child, and the resurrection of dead bodies occupying an entire city.



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[PRmerger]

Hello PR. I think if we are currently composed of natural bodies, then Paul is clearly saying in 1Corinthians above, that we no longer have this body after death.

Now, you do know that Christians believe that the Resurrection was a singular event in the history of creation, yes?

As such, when St. Paul states that “we no longer have this body after death”, why would you believe that this means that Our Lord and Savior is part of this deal, too?

Are you saying that St. Paul says that anyone who dies and then rises again has only a spiritual body?

If so, could you please tell me where St. Paul proclaims that Lazarus, upon rising from the dead, had only a spiritual body?

He does say we have a glorified body, he doesn’t say we have a part natural/part spiritual body, he clearly says we have a spiritual body. It’s a clear demarcation

So is it your belief that the daughter of Jairus spent the rest of her life as a spirit?

What about Dorcas? People could walk through her after Peter raised her from the dead?

And the son of the widow of Nain? Did she rejoice because she never had to clothe and feed her son after he was raised from death?

 

[KathleenGee]

I have been debating on whether or not to enter this thread as the responses seem to twirl around and about.

In Judeo Christianity, the premise is that God gave man paradise in which to live and thrive, but out of man’s disobedience, he was led out of the garden to suffer the wages of sin, which is suffering and death.

But God did not abandon man to allow His creature to remain as such.

Only God can forgive sin through God.

So He gave us His Son to restore us to a life of virtue and grace, not of ourselves, but now of eating the Divine Life of the Eucharistic Lord.

This is our tenant of faith. The Heavenly Father created the universe through His Son, the Incarnate Word, the ‘YES’ of God that united with the YES of Mary.

The Hebrew people likewise drew on ancient myths of man’s origin and answers for the mysteries of life. Confucius composed 7of the 10 commandments minus the ones that referred to the revelation of God.

Judaism is the most enduring of all religions and Christianity is its fulfillment in Jesus.

That is it. for now.

 

[Servant19]

Now, you do know that Christians believe that the Resurrection was a singular event in the history of creation, yes?

As such, when St. Paul states that “we no longer have this body after death”, why would you believe that this means that Our Lord and Savior is part of this deal, too?

Are you saying that St. Paul says that anyone who dies and then rises again has only a spiritual body?

If so, could you please tell me where St. Paul proclaims that Lazarus, upon rising from the dead, had only a spiritual body?

So is it your belief that the daughter of Jairus spent the rest of her life as a spirit?

What about Dorcas? People could walk through her after Peter raised her from the dead?

And the son of the widow of Nain? Did she rejoice because she never had to clothe and feed her son after he was raised from death?

Hello sister, my apologies for the delay in responding. I’ve been away from material civilization for the last couple of days

I think you may be confusing the Ezekial driven “corpse revival” with the resurrection of the dead, which occurs during the “Last Days”.

What happened to Dorcas etc, and also don’t forget, Elijah raises the son of a widow and His successor Elisha raises the child of a wealthy woman, were all “corpse resuscitations”, not resurrections. Baha’u’llah too, did several resuscitations through His spiritual powers, and even one without even being present. But again, I reiterate, this is not the resurrection of the dead, because all of these people lived on for a while, only to die again (unless you’ve seen Dorca recently? )

The “Last Days” occurred during the times immediately after Jesus Revelation (as mentioned by various Apostles) and denotes the spiritual death of all humanity and the spiritual resurrection of those who’s hearts are leavened unto Him.

“And there shall be a time of trouble, such as never has been since there was a nation till that time; but at that time your people shall be delivered, everyone whose name shall be found written in the book. And multitudes of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. And those who are wise shall shine like the brightness of the firmament; and those who turn many to righteousness like the stars forever and ever.” (Daniel 12:1-4)

We are currently living in the Last Days again

I consider myself as amongst the resurrected in this Mighty Day



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[PRmerger]

Hello sister, my apologies for the delay in responding. I’ve been away from material civilization for the last couple of days

I think you may be confusing the Ezekial driven “corpse revival” with the resurrection of the dead, which occurs during the “Last Days”.

No. I have not confused either of these things.

What happened to Dorcas etc, and also don’t forget, Elijah raises the son of a widow and His successor Elisha raises the child of a wealthy woman, were all “corpse resuscitations”, not resurrections

Friend, resurrection and resuscitation are synonymous.

Please see here: thefreedictionary.com/resurrect

Your point that once someone is dead their bodies are spiritual ONLY is disproven by all of the above resuscitations that I cited.

Unless you are wanting to offer some sort of citations (from Roman sources would be preferable) that these bodies that were resuscitated were non-corporeal and walked around Judea without a body for a period of time?

Is that your position?

Baha’u’llah too, did several resuscitations through His spiritual powers, and even one without even being present. But again, I reiterate, this is not the resurrection of the dead, because all of these people lived on for a while, only to die again (unless you’ve seen Dorca recently? )

If they died, and were brought back to life, then your position is that they were spirits only.

Is that what Bahais believe? That the corpses he resuscitated came back as spirits only?

The “Last Days” occurred during the times immediately after Jesus Revelation (as mentioned by various Apostles) and denotes the spiritual death of all humanity and the spiritual resurrection of those who’s hearts are leavened unto Him.

“And there shall be a time of trouble, such as never has been since there was a nation till that time; but at that time your people shall be delivered, everyone whose name shall be found written in the book. And multitudes of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. And those who are wise shall shine like the brightness of the firmament; and those who turn many to righteousness like the stars forever and ever.” (Daniel 12:1-4)

We are currently living in the Last Days again

I consider myself as amongst the resurrected in this Mighty Day

.

The above is some verbosity of mild interest, but not relevant here.

 

[Servant19]

No. I have not confused either of these things.

Friend, resurrection and resuscitation are synonymous.

Please see here: thefreedictionary.com/resurrect

Your point that once someone is dead their bodies are spiritual ONLY is disproven by all of the above resuscitations that I cited.

Unless you are wanting to offer some sort of citations (from Roman sources would be preferable) that these bodies that were resuscitated were non-corporeal and walked around Judea without a body for a period of time?

Is that your position?

If they died, and were brought back to life, then your position is that they were spirits only.

Is that what Bahais believe? That the corpses he resuscitated came back as spirits only?

The above is some verbosity of mild interest, but not relevant here.

Well dear sister, do you have any evidence that our friend Dorca is roaming the earth today?

I assume resurrections do not involve re-resurrections do they?

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[jpaul1953]

I really don’t think it’s morally right for any one religion to say they are the only true religion and that everyone else is wrong. If any one religion claims to be the only truth, then they must surely be a lie? What do you think?

GGarcia19,

I believe you must be sort of new to this because there is only one truth…the completeness of it. Jesus started the Catholic Church, passing the torch to Peter and so on till time ends.
There is only one Church that can claim Jesus started and that is the Catholic Church. All other Churches were started by mortal men and women.

The Catholic Church chiefs have sinned an unthinkable amount of times. How come it’s still here. Well, because Jesus said the Devil will never tear down his Church, no matter what

What other Church would have lasted through all the sinning our hierarchy committed.

The Catholic Church is here to stay regardless what others say. If you have any questions about it sincerely ask Jesus.

May God Bless you,

Jpaul1953

 

[PRmerger]

Well dear sister, do you have any evidence that our friend Dorca is roaming the earth today?

Not sure why you would think that I have posited that Dorcas is roaming the earth today.

I assume resurrections do not involve re-resurrections do they?

.

You are correct.

Now, you are corrected in your assumption that St. Paul has made a clear demarcation about death resulting in ONLY spiritual bodies, yes?

Unless you believe that Dorcas, the son of the widow of Nain and all the others who were dead but then resuscitated had ONLY spiritual bodies, yes?

 

[Servant19]

Not sure why you would think that I have posited that Dorcas is roaming the earth today.

You are correct.

Now, you are corrected in your assumption that St. Paul has made a clear demarcation about death resulting in ONLY spiritual bodies, yes?

Unless you believe that Dorcas, the son of the widow of Nain and all the others who were dead but then resuscitated had ONLY spiritual bodies, yes?

Dorcas was not resurrected, he was resuscitated. Please PR, it’s World Cup time. I am celebrating human diversity. Keep me cheerful, not tearful

He was obviously resuscitated because he died. If he was resurrected he would not die, ever.

In what condition is Dorca in today? Spiritual or physical condition.

.

 

[PRmerger]

Dorcas was not resurrected, he was resuscitated.

Sure. Ok. I said she was resuscitated. Dorcas was a woman, BTW.

Are you saying that after she died and was resucitated she roamed the earth in a spiritual body?

 

[Servant19]

Sure. Ok. I said she was resuscitated. Dorcas was a woman, BTW.

Are you saying that after she died and was resucitated she roamed the earth in a spiritual body?

Oops yes, SHE…my bad. I’m watching the soccer at the same time
(How wonderful is it?!?!)

When she died, she survived in her spiritual condition. When she was resuscitated, the bond between her soul and her physical body was reconnected.

The science of near death experiences, primarily conducted in New York hospitals by Sam Parnia is evidence of this. Our consciousness comes from a source OUTSIDE our physical body and brain. The soul of man is the source of our consciousness.

Science will prove this in the coming few years
Resuscitation is not resurrection. Dorca survived without her body for a short time before commencing again physically when her body was resuscitated …



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[PRmerger]

When she died, she survived in her spiritual condition. When she was resuscitated, the bond between her soul and her physical body was reconnected.

While the dictionary makes no distinction between resurrected and resuscitated, Servant
(see here: thefreedictionary.com/resurrect

resurrect - cause to become alive again; “raise from the dead”; “Slavery is already dead, and cannot be resurrected”; “Upraising ghosts”
upraise, raise
resuscitate, revive - cause to regain consciousness; “The doctors revived the comatose man”
resurrect, uprise, rise - return from the dead; “Christ is risen!”; “The dead are to uprise”

…I am happy to use your term and say that Dorcas was* resuscitated.*

She was resuscitated after she died.

About that time she became sick and died, and her body was washed and placed in an upstairs room. --Acts 9:37

So* resuscitated.* Resurrected. It makes no matter to me.

Either way, she was dead. Then she was alive.

And she had a physical body when when she was…er… resuscitated.

Do you believe this verse of St. Paul applies to Dorcas when she was* resuscitated*, Servant?

Our bodies are buried in brokenness, but they will be raised in glory. They are buried in weakness, but they will be raised in strength. 44 They are buried as natural human bodies, but they will be raised as spiritual bodies. For just as there are natural bodies, there are also spiritual bodies.–1 Cor 15

 

[Servant19]

While the dictionary makes no distinction between resurrected and resuscitated, Servant
(see here: thefreedictionary.com/resurrect

resurrect - cause to become alive again; “raise from the dead”; “Slavery is already dead, and cannot be resurrected”; “Upraising ghosts”
upraise, raise
resuscitate, revive - cause to regain consciousness; “The doctors revived the comatose man”
resurrect, uprise, rise - return from the dead; “Christ is risen!”; “The dead are to uprise”

…I am happy to use your term and say that Dorcas was* resuscitated.*

She was resuscitated after she died.

About that time she became sick and died, and her body was washed and placed in an upstairs room. --Acts 9:37

So* resuscitated.* Resurrected. It makes no matter to me.

Either way, she was dead. Then she was alive.

And she had a physical body when when she was…er… resuscitated.

Do you believe this verse of St. Paul applies to Dorcas when she was* resuscitated*, Servant?

Our bodies are buried in brokenness, but they will be raised in glory. They are buried in weakness, but they will be raised in strength. 44 They are buried as natural human bodies, but they will be raised as spiritual bodies. For just as there are natural bodies, there are also spiritual bodies.–1 Cor 15

Hi again PR,

Let me quote the verses related to Dorca from Acts to assist us:

36 In Joppa there was a disciple named Tabitha (in Greek her name is Dorcas); she was always doing good and helping the poor. 37 About that time she became sick and died, and her body was washed and placed in an upstairs room. 38 Lydda was near Joppa; so when the disciples heard that Peter was in Lydda, they sent two men to him and urged him, “Please come at once!”

39 Peter went with them, and when he arrived he was taken upstairs to the room. All the widows stood around him, crying and showing him the robes and other clothing that Dorcas had made while she was still with them.

40 Peter sent them all out of the room; then he got down on his knees and prayed. Turning toward the dead woman, he said, “Tabitha, get up.” She opened her eyes, and seeing Peter she sat up. 41 He took her by the hand and helped her to her feet. Then he called for the believers, especially the widows, and presented her to them alive. 42 This became known all over Joppa, and many people believed in the Lord. 43 Peter stayed in Joppa for some time with a tanner named Simon.

Here it is clearly evident that there was no burial. She was pronounced dead (whatever that may mean 2000 years ago) by her family and friends.

So since she was not buried, she does not fall into the category of body referred to by Paul in the verses you quoted.

There is no difference between Dorcas and this lady:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pam_Reynolds_case

So, she went on to live, just like me and you are today, walking the earth for some time, until she one day died…properly this time…and she was then (only then) falling into the category of resurrection, from Paul’s viewpoint.

BURIED in brokeness, BURIED as natural bodies, but raised in glory and raised as SPIRITUAL bodies (note spiritual, not physical)

There is no such thing as physical resurrection according to Paul, ever.

Why are you awaiting to be resurrected into a new physical heaven on earth PR?

“1 Cor 5:17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here!”

You are already living in it! But you know that this is a spiritual, not a physical place in which you live.

1 Cor 5:6 Therefore we are always confident and know that as long as we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord. 7 For we live by faith, not by sight. 8 We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord.

We do not need our bodies PR. We live by the spirit of FAITH, not the physical condition of SIGHT. We would prefer to be AWAY from the body, and at home with the Lord, and THAT, my dear sister, is why you fast during Lent and why I fast during the Baha’i month of 'Ala

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[KathleenGee]

If you reduce to spirit, then you reduce to text but what is the actual reality?

True faith is not living by sight…how many times we judge a person by appearance and then either ostracize that person or condemn them?

The reality as a Catholic is that we die to ourselves and we put on the new life of Christ Who lives within us…and then you go back to Christ’s physical coming to us. The Hebrews could not figure out how to moderate and direct their lives. God gave them the 10 commandments. Confucius could perceive 7 relating to neighbor, but could not discover revelation of who God is.

Judaism is 5600 years old, and the Hebrews were as little children who needed guidance and discipline, law and order and to worship God in the way He wanted.

For man to try to figure God out without authentic prophets and teachers serving the gathering of people, quoting St. Thomas Aquinas, is placing the eye of an owl (that works in darkness) next to the sun.

Revelation was completed with Jesus Christ.

 

[PRmerger]

If you reduce to spirit, then you reduce to text but what is the actual reality?

True faith is not living by sight…how many times we judge a person by appearance and then either ostracize that person or condemn them?

The reality as a Catholic is that we die to ourselves and we put on the new life of Christ Who lives within us…and then you go back to Christ’s physical coming to us. The Hebrews could not figure out how to moderate and direct their lives. God gave them the 10 commandments. Confucius could perceive 7 relating to neighbor, but could not discover revelation of who God is.

Judaism is 5600 years old, and the Hebrews were as little children who needed guidance and discipline, law and order and to worship God in the way He wanted.

For man to try to figure God out without authentic prophets and teachers serving the gathering of people, quoting St. Thomas Aquinas, is placing the eye of an owl (that works in darkness) next to the sun.

Revelation was completed with Jesus Christ.

Amen!