Ontario RC Schools can't Teach Abortion is Wrong

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I am going to need more information on this before I’m outraged. When I googled the issue the only sites I could find even mentioning it were super conservative Catholic sites, and those are not objective. I finally searched for ‘Canada Bill 13’ and found a link to Yahoo News, which I posted below. It seems like this is a pretty controversial bill because it was designed as an anti-bullying bill with the primary goal of stopping harassment of LGBT members. But nothing is said about abortion. I can’t imagine that if the abortion thing is a real concern it wouldn’t have been mentioned in the article about the controversy. Add to that that lifesitenews doesn’t have any full quotes, just a few words in quotation marks between their own assumptions.

I think that before anyone gets outraged they should do some more research.
ca.news.yahoo.com/media-advisory-ontarios-bill-13-192900970.html
 
I think that the Bishops should take the radical choice. Cut off all government funding.

I go to a public High school. Far from ruining my Faith, it built it. I am discerning a Priestly vocation inside of a Public school. Or there is home-school. Or charge tuition and teach ONLY solid Catholic doctrine and education.
 
BlueEyedLady said:
I am going to need more information on this before I’m outraged. When I googled the issue the only sites I could find even mentioning it were super conservative Catholic sites, and those are not objective. I finally searched for ‘Canada Bill 13’ and found a link to Yahoo News, which I posted below. It seems like this is a pretty controversial bill because it was designed as an anti-bullying bill with the primary goal of stopping harassment of LGBT members. But nothing is said about abortion. I can’t imagine that if the abortion thing is a real concern it wouldn’t have been mentioned in the article about the controversy. Add to that that lifesitenews doesn’t have any full quotes, just a few words in quotation marks between their own assumptions.

I think that before anyone gets outraged they should do some more research.
ca.news.yahoo.com/media-advisory-ontarios-bill-13-192900970.html
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No. We need to start being like the Muslims. Outrage first. No one messes with the Muslims.
 
Link0126 said:
No. We need to start being like the Muslims. Outrage first. No one messes with the Muslims.
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I hope you’re being sarcastic. Mosques are vandalized all the time, videos mocking the faith are made all the time, western nations try to pass laws restricting their religion all the time, cartoons are made mocking Mohammed all the time, they are threatened all the time, and let’s not forget the outrage and even legal action taken against the so-called “9/11 mosque”.

And even if people didn’t pick on Muslims being outraged without information only makes you look foolish.
 
BlueEyedLady said:
I hope you’re being sarcastic. Mosques are vandalized all the time, videos mocking the faith are made all the time, western nations try to pass laws restricting their religion all the time, cartoons are made mocking Mohammed all the time, they are threatened all the time, and let’s not forget the outrage and even legal action taken against the so-called “9/11 mosque”.

And even if people didn’t pick on Muslims being outraged without information only makes you look foolish.
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No they aren’t. Not in the US or Canada, besides they are always running around killing people anyway. Maybe you should join an atheist site or something.
 
BlueEyedLady said:
I am going to need more information on this before I’m outraged. When I googled the issue the only sites I could find even mentioning it were super conservative Catholic sites, and those are not objective. I finally searched for ‘Canada Bill 13’ and found a link to Yahoo News, which I posted below. It seems like this is a pretty controversial bill because it was designed as an anti-bullying bill with the primary goal of stopping harassment of LGBT members. But nothing is said about abortion. I can’t imagine that if the abortion thing is a real concern it wouldn’t have been mentioned in the article about the controversy. Add to that that lifesitenews doesn’t have any full quotes, just a few words in quotation marks between their own assumptions.

I think that before anyone gets outraged they should do some more research.
ca.news.yahoo.com/media-advisory-ontarios-bill-13-192900970.html
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Here’s a local news channel that covered it and has the quote. While not law, it shows the intent of those in government and the mindset with which they will craft laws.
 
Link0126 said:
No they aren’t. Not in the US or Canada, besides they are always running around killing people anyway. Maybe you should join an atheist site or something.
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Wow. I hope that someday you have the pleasure of meeting some good Muslim men and women and that it softens your heart.
 
mcw013 said:
I don’t want to start an argument or anything, but you could always expalin to a kid, that "Mr A does that, and Mr B does this: But since we are B’s, we do B’s because we are B’s, even though A’s have the right to oppose us, and as long as we do not DIRECTLY oppose their right of opposing us, we will be fine.
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Who are the As and who are the Bs? Catholics aren’t the only ones who oppose abortion. We don’t oppose abortion because we are Catholic, we oppose abortion because we value all life just as people of many other faiths do.

Even if you want to limit it to Catholic teaching, you have to be able to explain **why **Catholics don’t support abortion. If you can’t say, “Catholics believe it is wrong”, what can you say that would explain the Catholic teaching to a student? Can you say, “Catholics believe that all babies, even those unborn, have the same right to life”? Can you say, “Catholics believe that murder is wrong and that murder is the deliberate killing of another human being of any age, even before it is born.”
 
ChurchSoldier said:
Here’s a local news channel that covered it and has the quote. While not law, it shows the intent of those in government and the mindset with which they will craft laws.
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That is a story about the government funding of abortion, which is a separate discussion. Furthermore the quote that lifesitenews had attributed to this catholic school debate was actually about the public funding of abortion! I hate that dishonesty.
 
JacquesMaritain said:
Hi Bill:

As it happens, I am a teacher there, and yes, I do violate the law, I suppose. So far I appear to have gotten away with it. I believe, speak and teach that abortion is wrong; I have also advocated for pro-life causes in the Schools, for which I have received quite a bit of criticism, but I don’t care. The Ontario Liberals are attempting to insert their grubby little fingers even further into the Catholic School System here in Ontario, but I view them pretty much as I viewed the Politburo in the declining years of the Soviet Empire…they could threaten and harass you, but in the end, they could never pass laws or restrictions that would work, because creative and clever people always found ways to subvert them. One of the great benefits of working in huge bureaucracies such as the schools (or government) is that, literally, they have become so complex and impossible to manage that the right hand has no idea what the left hand is doing; and we can always take advantage of bureaucratic “inertia” and “ignorance” to basically carry on as we always have, regardless of what governments order. After all, they’ll be gone in a few years (they are subject to the whims of the voters)…but we’ll still be here.

Jacques

“Don’t believe them, don’t fear them, don’t ask anything of them” —Alexandr Solzhenitsyn
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Glad to hear it.👍 Tyrannical laws were never abolished because people meekly submitted to them. It takes people with courage to do what is right to change things. The more the people who are dissatisfied with this stand up against it, the more likely it is to go away.
 
Link0126 said:
No they aren’t. Not in the US or Canada, besides they are always running around killing people anyway. Maybe you should join an atheist site or something.
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Is this a serious post, or does my sarcasm meter need re-calibration? :rolleyes:
 
Catholic schools will be leveraged by the Ontario government as long as they are accepting provincial money.
Sadly if you take the money you risk being told what to teach.
This goes back to the 1980s when provincial dollars were offered to the Catholic school board in Toronto and were accepted.
If the money is accepted we are obliged to agree to the terms of the province, if the money is refused, we are not able to offer exceptional Catholic education to all socioeconomic groups.
Decide what is best in the long run.
Live for the moment, and for eternity.
 
Link0126 said:
what I’m saying is, you don’t see her telling Muslims that wearing a burka is misogynistic do you? She wouldn’t dare…
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This is a fair point. The Ontario Government has made several efforts to introduce secular legislation into its Catholic Schools (I know, because I work in one of them). Yet it has been strangely silent when things such as Muslim Prayer Services go on in its own Public Schools, which are supposed to be non-sectarian. Last year, there was a public furor when it emerged that a local public elementary school was holding such prayer services, and insisting that the boys sit at the front, the girls at the back, and the menstruating girls (being ritually unclean) were segregated at the back of the room, where they were forbidden to take part. I felt then (and I do now) that this is an outrageous assault on human equality which ought to have no place in a province that claims that it views men and women as equal…yet, the local Ontario Liberal government just couldn’t find the courage to defend its own views on equality, for fear of not being “multicultural” enough, or maybe seeming intolerant or bigoted. Folks, you’re not fooling anyone here…you only have to look at the track record of dozens of Middle Eastern countries to realize that they are absolute catastrophes for human rights in general, and womens’ rights in particular. In every country where Shariah or Islamic Law has been implemented, we have seen appalling insults to human freedom, including freedom of religion, freedom of association, freedom of conscience, the right to vote, and a respect for the equality of male and female. We Catholics aren’t even amateur misogynists at best; these guys are the professionals!

parentcentral.ca/parent/education/article/1022385–board-runs-afoul-of-education-act-with-prayer-services

thestar.com/opinion/editorialopinion/article/1023979–mallick-some-toronto-schoolgirls-are-always-second-rate

It’s ok for Muslims to segregate girls in Ontario for being unclean, I guess…but woe to you if you teach that abortion is morally wrong in a Catholic School. Hypocrisy is the tribute that vice pays to virtue.

Jacques
 
 
 
JacquesMaritain said:
This is a fair point. The Ontario Government has made several efforts to introduce secular legislation into its Catholic Schools (I know, because I work in one of them). Yet it has been strangely silent when things such as Muslim Prayer Services go on in its own Public Schools, which are supposed to be non-sectarian. Last year, there was a public furor when it emerged that a local public elementary school was holding such prayer services, and insisting that the boys sit at the front, the girls at the back, and the menstruating girls (being ritually unclean) were segregated at the back of the room, where they were forbidden to take part. I felt then (and I do now) that this is an outrageous assault on human equality which ought to have no place in a province that claims that it views men and women as equal…yet, the local Ontario Liberal government just couldn’t find the courage to defend its own views on equality, for fear of not being “multicultural” enough, or maybe seeming intolerant or bigoted. Folks, you’re not fooling anyone here…you only have to look at the track record of dozens of Middle Eastern countries to realize that they are absolute catastrophes for human rights in general, and womens’ rights in particular. In every country where Shariah or Islamic Law has been implemented, we have seen appalling insults to human freedom, including freedom of religion, freedom of association, freedom of conscience, the right to vote, and a respect for the equality of male and female. We Catholics aren’t even amateur misogynists at best; these guys are the professionals!

parentcentral.ca/parent/education/article/1022385–board-runs-afoul-of-education-act-with-prayer-services

thestar.com/opinion/editorialopinion/article/1023979–mallick-some-toronto-schoolgirls-are-always-second-rate

It’s ok for Muslims to segregate girls in Ontario for being unclean, I guess…but woe to you if you teach that abortion is morally wrong in a Catholic School. Hypocrisy is the tribute that vice pays to virtue.

Jacques
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Exactly. But she can’t think of anything more misogynistic than saying abortion is wrong… ha!
 
Link0126 said:
Exactly. But she can’t think of anything more misogynistic than saying abortion is wrong… ha!
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Hi Link:

This. Our own Catholic Schools have recently (under government directive) been forced to introduce “Gay Straight Alliance” Clubs, despite the objections of the local bishops…after all, many gay students are bullied, and they need such organizations to aid in their recovery, goes the government argument. It would be interesting to see the Ontario Government take a similar interest in, say, gay students in a Muslim School. I’m still waiting to see the Government push for their own “Gay Straight Alliances” in the local Islamic schools. Of course that will never happen; multiculturalism demands that you treat all cultures as equivalent, never make judgments about any of them, and refuse to accept the possibility that some of them might collide with each other. Gay Rights versus Muslim Rights? Hmm…an irresistible force meets an immovable object; there’s too much cognitive dissonance, we can’t afford to even think about it, lest our heads explode. Better for the Government to hassle the Catholics instead, they won’t push back. Don’t even get me started on how gays are treated under Islamic Law (a leisurely stoning in the morning, and maybe a nice burial in a wall in the afternoon)…but of course we Catholics are the bigots because we don’t want clubs for them in our Catholic schools.

Jacques
 
BlueEyedLady said:
I am going to need more information on this before I’m outraged. When I googled the issue the only sites I could find even mentioning it were super conservative Catholic sites, and those are not objective. I finally searched for ‘Canada Bill 13’ and found a link to Yahoo News, which I posted below. It seems like this is a pretty controversial bill because it was designed as an anti-bullying bill with the primary goal of stopping harassment of LGBT members. But nothing is said about abortion. I can’t imagine that if the abortion thing is a real concern it wouldn’t have been mentioned in the article about the controversy. Add to that that lifesitenews doesn’t have any full quotes, just a few words in quotation marks between their own assumptions.

I think that before anyone gets outraged they should do some more research.
ca.news.yahoo.com/media-advisory-ontarios-bill-13-192900970.html
Click to expand...
I don’t think anyone bothered to read your link - they’re too busy blaming the Muslims for everything :rolleyes:

Before getting all crazy here people, this legislation can be appealed and quite likely violates the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, and the article linked by BlueEyedLady contains quotes from a legal expert that says just that.
Elements of (the Act) disregard Catholic doctrine and ignore constitutionally afforded denominational protection.
(snip)
…the genuine challenge the new legislation presents to denominational rights protected by Section 93 of the Constitution Act, 1867, and to religious freedoms guaranteed by the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. He notes affected Catholics could even petition the federal cabinet to overturn the legislation under Section 93.
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(emphasis mine)

We’ll have to see if the Schools or Bishops take this to the Federal Government or the Supreme Court and see what happens then.

The sky is not falling (yet).
 
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